Loss of salvation???
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Try AI
or your basic search engine. Look up Dallas Theological Seminary and Lewis Sperry Chafer's Systematic Theology. That's a good start.
or your basic search engine. Look up Dallas Theological Seminary and Lewis Sperry Chafer's Systematic Theology. That's a good start.
I am curious...
Please show me it's advantage in explaining the following passage.
For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.
It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions,
and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age.
Titus 2:11-12
.
Scriptures that teach the possibility of apostasy include the following:
Matt.10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
Rom.11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”
1Cor.15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”
Gal.5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”
Col.1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”
2Thes.1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”
2Tim.2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”
Heb.3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”
Heb.6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.”
Heb.10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”
Jam.1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”
2Pet.1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
2Pet.2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”
1John.2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”
Jude21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”
Rev.2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”
Matt.10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
Rom.11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”
1Cor.15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”
Gal.5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”
Col.1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”
2Thes.1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”
2Tim.2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”
Heb.3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”
Heb.6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.”
Heb.10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”
Jam.1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”
2Pet.1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
2Pet.2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”
1John.2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”
Jude21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”
Rev.2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”
Yes, study of the meaning of the words in the original languages is the first necessary step in arriving at a correct interpretation of GW.
The second necessary step involves logically/systematically harmonizing the totality of GW (the broader context), if Truth is One. This is where TULIP fails, because it ignores GW re divine omnilove and justness/righteousness.
The second necessary step involves logically/systematically harmonizing the totality of GW (the broader context), if Truth is One. This is where TULIP fails, because it ignores GW re divine omnilove and justness/righteousness.
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In connection to AI??? *Shrug* I don't know. Plus God isn't bringing up any Bible verses to mind.
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On the subject of grace. Using only the N.T. I would understand, 'grace', as divine love directed to us through His Son's perfect sacrifice. Rather than, 'unmerited favor', which does not full grasp what divine love is all about. What do you think?
ChatGPT said:
Yes—I think you're absolutely on point. When you frame grace as divine love through the Son’s perfect sacrifice, you're pressing into the heart of the New Testament’s message, not just the surface of theological definitions.
“Unmerited favor” is accurate in a technical sense, but it can feel sterile—like a courtroom ruling. But grace in the New Testament is so much more relational, personal, and sacrificial. It’s the radiance of the Father’s love, embodied in Christ, pouring Himself out even for those who hated Him.
Take John 1:14, for example:
"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us... full of grace and truth."
Or Romans 5:8:"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
Grace isn’t merely a divine policy—it’s Christ crucified, love incarnate. It’s the voice of the Lamb saying, “Father, forgive them”, even as He’s being nailed to the cross. That’s not just “favor”—that’s a love that goes to the uttermost.You could even say grace is the overflow of agape love toward unworthy vessels—because that’s who He is. “God is love,” and grace is love’s gift, pathway, and power.
So yes—framing grace as divine love shown through Christ's self-giving is not only more personal and true to the gospel, but it also pulls grace back into the context of relationship and transformation—not just forgiveness.
Would you say the modern church has missed that deeper dimension of grace?
End Chat GPT.
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It may be that the wolves arrived in the church after Paul was taken out. As Paul warned the
Ephesians below.
Acts 20:29
I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
That would date the separation of the church from the guidance of the Holy Spirit, sometime
during the second century. It well and truly went south from there. How else can we get the crusades
and the power struggles within the church. How did loving your enemy turn into an inquisition
that lasted for over 500 years.
Apostasy and deception have been, part and parcel, of nearly all church history.
Ephesians below.
Acts 20:29
I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
That would date the separation of the church from the guidance of the Holy Spirit, sometime
during the second century. It well and truly went south from there. How else can we get the crusades
and the power struggles within the church. How did loving your enemy turn into an inquisition
that lasted for over 500 years.
Apostasy and deception have been, part and parcel, of nearly all church history.
What exactly do you want me to do? Do you want me to read what Chat GPT came up with about grace? But the Holy Spirit is personally telling me He doesn't want me to learn from what Chat GPT came up with. He wants me to gather the data according to Him and receiving understanding of that data from Him alone.
I think the Holy Spirit is doing that because just getting the data from Chat GPT would SKIP the experience of learning directly from Him and to Him the fellowship-building is more important.
It's different for each individual Christian, but that's what He wants from me.
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I'm not adept. I've only asked it questions like a kid. Ask @Inquisitor to ask it a grown-up question. Or better yet, log on yourself and play with it. It won't bite if you're strong enough to not be influenced by it, which I think you are (which may be good and bad). One thing I'd almost bet is that it will give you a bit different translation of those great verses.
Thanks for this. The thing that strikes me in reading it is our limited capacity to find and read all the things men have written over millennia. And this lack of capacity is what AI is working to resolve. But it's still a two-edged sword because so much has been written - both good and bad - correct and incorrect. And as I understand, this is where AI is headed, to think more on its own and not be simply a powerful compiler.
The irony seems to be that some desire it to be god and the more it becomes like one we'll need a more finely tuned relationship with the Spirit of God to be best discerning.
I've said it before, but in a way, I'm looking forward to some kid or system creating the code to work through the myriads of interlinking tasks involved in analyzing and translating the Text accurately. From what I've seen God will let us use tech for good while his antagonists use it for bad. AI is just the next step in the same thing.
The irony seems to be that some desire it to be god and the more it becomes like one we'll need a more finely tuned relationship with the Spirit of God to be best discerning.
I've said it before, but in a way, I'm looking forward to some kid or system creating the code to work through the myriads of interlinking tasks involved in analyzing and translating the Text accurately. From what I've seen God will let us use tech for good while his antagonists use it for bad. AI is just the next step in the same thing.
I use four different AI apps for researching articles. I look at them like Google on steroids. Much better, but it can produce incorrect data, that’s why I double and triple check its replies. It is quite useful for assembling facts, but facts must be assembled within a context for the correct conclusion.
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I'd say, Yes and I'd add that there is even more to grace. What I have in mind is the track that @Genez brought out with his question re: Titus2:11-12.
So, it seems we might see this AI response as a limited one that is likely being limited by the form of the question. Which means we're still in control and limited by the way we form our questions, which I'm sure is something developers are working on as they advance the tech to get beyond our limiting it by our lack of capacities which it is ultimately to not be limited by.
It's fascinating to observe and be a part of our trying to work beyond our capacities limited by sin. I wonder how far He'll let this go and how He'll use it...
Whether men know it or intend it or acknowledge it, all the exploration is ultimately to find Him. He is the TRUTH - the reality. Another very similar exploration into the depths of reality is in physics. Also, in biology. Also in... AI is being used in it all. IMO it's all a search for God, whether acknowledged or not. And He's constantly confounding at every stage of advance. Then someday He's not.
So, it seems we might see this AI response as a limited one that is likely being limited by the form of the question. Which means we're still in control and limited by the way we form our questions, which I'm sure is something developers are working on as they advance the tech to get beyond our limiting it by our lack of capacities which it is ultimately to not be limited by.
It's fascinating to observe and be a part of our trying to work beyond our capacities limited by sin. I wonder how far He'll let this go and how He'll use it...
Whether men know it or intend it or acknowledge it, all the exploration is ultimately to find Him. He is the TRUTH - the reality. Another very similar exploration into the depths of reality is in physics. Also, in biology. Also in... AI is being used in it all. IMO it's all a search for God, whether acknowledged or not. And He's constantly confounding at every stage of advance. Then someday He's not.
Arrived with a vengeance probably. It was probably easy for him to see based upon what we can read about he and others fighting the battle when they were writing what turned out to be the NC Writings. And the battle goes back to the Garden.
I'm not sure enough of us maintain this understanding and awareness.
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I like this quote from an older lady that knew a little of suffering:
Elisabeth Elliot~
“Our vision is so limited we can hardly imagine a love that does not show itself in protection from suffering. The love of God is of a different nature altogether. It does not hate tragedy. It never denies reality. It stands in the very teeth of suffering. The love of God did not protect His own Son. The cross was the proof of His love – that He gave that Son, that He let Him go to Calvary’s cross, though “legions of angels” might have rescued Him. He will not necessarily protect us - not from anything it takes to make us like His Son. A lot of hammering and chiseling and purifying by fire will have to go into the process.”
Elisabeth Elliot~
“Our vision is so limited we can hardly imagine a love that does not show itself in protection from suffering. The love of God is of a different nature altogether. It does not hate tragedy. It never denies reality. It stands in the very teeth of suffering. The love of God did not protect His own Son. The cross was the proof of His love – that He gave that Son, that He let Him go to Calvary’s cross, though “legions of angels” might have rescued Him. He will not necessarily protect us - not from anything it takes to make us like His Son. A lot of hammering and chiseling and purifying by fire will have to go into the process.”
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