Our God and Savior, Jesus Christ

EddieM · Thursday at 8:41 PM

Our God and Savior, Jesus Christ
See Titus 2.13, cf. 2 Peter 1.1

Two of the shortest books of the New Testament contain similar - and very strong - affirmations of Jesus Christ as God. In his epistle to Titus, the apostle Paul states that Christians "wait for the blessed hope and the manifestation of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13).

The equally short epistle of 2 Peter opens by describing its readers as "those who have received a faith as precious as ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ" (1:1). Both of these texts describe Jesus using the two titles God and Savior. Not everyone agrees that these verses call Jesus "God" One cult, for example, translates Titus 2:13 "of the great God and of [the] Savior of us, Christ Jesus" and 2 Peter 1:1 "of our God and [the] Savior Jesus Christ" (NWT). The bracketed insertions of the word ‘the’ make a significant difference. Read these verses without the bracketed insertions - especially 2 Peter 1:1 - and they sound like they are referring to Jesus as both God and the pronoun appears.)

When this construction occurs in ancient Greek using singular personal nouns that are not proper names (that is, nouns like father, Lord, king, not Jesus, Peter, or Paul), the two nouns refer to the same person. The first writer to analyze this construction in a formal way did so in the late eighteenth century. He was an English Christian abolitionist named Granville Sharp; for that reason, the analysis of this construction is commonly known as Granville Sharp's rule. The New Testament contains plenty of examples supporting Sharp's rule. The epistles of Paul, for example, refer to "our God and Father" (Gal. 1:4; Phil. 4:20; 1 Thess. 1:3; 3:11, 13) and "the God and Father" (Rom. 15:6; 1 Cor. 15:24), which certainly refer to one person by both titles God and Father. There are numerous additional examples, many of little or no theological import.

The evidence that Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 call Jesus God goes beyond Sharp's rule. In Titus, the expression "our Savior" (soteros hemon) occurs six times. In five of those six occurrences, the article "the" (tou) immediately precedes "our Savior" (1:3, 4; 2:10; 3:4, 6); the one exception is Titus 2:13. The obvious and only good explanation for this variation is that "our Savior" is governed by the same article that governs "great God." Another piece of evidence in the context of Titus 2:13 is Paul's use of the word epiphaneia ("appearing”).

Another piece of evidence in the context of Titus 2:13 is Paul's use of the word epiphaneia ("appearing,”) from which we derive the word epiphany. In the Bible this word occurs only in Paul's writings, mostly in the Pastoral Epistles (2 Thess. 2:8; 1 Tim. 6:14; 2 Tim. 1:10; 4:1, 8; Titus 2:13), and always referring to the appearing of Jesus Christ, unless Titus 2:13 is the sole exception. The close parallel between Titus 2:13 and 2 Timothy 1:10 ("the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus") effectively rules out the possibility that Titus 2:13 is an exception. So when Paul says that Christians are awaiting "the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13), we can be sure that the one who will be "appearing" will indeed be Jesus Christ.

Several factors cumulatively offer strong support for understanding "Jesus Christ" to be identifying "our great God and Savior," not "the glory," in Titus 2:13.
1. "Our great God and Savior" is immediately adjacent to "Jesus Christ."
2. It would be odd to speak of the appearing of God's glory and not mean that the one who is appearing is God.
3. Paul never refers to Jesus as God's "glory" (2 Cor. 4:4, 6).
4. All other things being equal, a personal designation like "our great God and Savior" is more likely to be identified as a person ("Jesus Christ") than is an abstraction ("the glory").
5. Elsewhere in the Pastoral Epistles (1 and 2 Timothy, Titus), whenever Paul uses the word epiphaneia ("appearing"), it refers to the manifestation of Jesus Christ (1 Tim. 6:14; 2 Tim. 1:10; 4:1, 8), not of an abstract quality (“the glory”) related to God or Christ.
6. In as many as twelve out of eighteen times in his epistles that Paul uses the term "the glory" in the genitive case (tes doxes), it likely functions as a descriptive modifier of the preceding noun (Rom. 8:21; 9:23; Col. 1:11, 27; 1 Tim. 1:11; Titus 2:13). English translations often express this usage by the rendering "glorious." Thus, Titus 2:13 maybe better translated "the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ."
7. Paul immediately follows his reference to Jesus Christ by speaking of his accomplishments for our salvation (Titus 2:14), confirming that in this context Jesus Christ is "our Savior."
8. The pattern of Paul's references to "our Savior" in Titus - three references to "God our Savior" each followed closely by a reference to Jesus Christ as "our Savior" (1:3, 4; 2:10, 13; 3:4, 6) - is disrupted if 2:13 does not refer to Jesus Christ as Savior.

The epistle of 2 Peter, then, opens by affirming that Jesus Christ is "our God and Savior." It closes, appropriately, with a doxology of praise to Jesus Christ: "But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen" (2 Peter 3:18). The verbal parallels in those opening and closing verses between "our God and Savior Jesus Christ" and "our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ," as well as the concluding doxology directing eternal glory to Jesus Christ, are stunningly clear affirmations that Jesus Christ is indeed our Lord and our God.

Magenta · Thursday at 9:15 PM

Titus 2 verses 11-13 ~ The grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to everyone. 12It instructs us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live sensible, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13as we await the blessed hope and glorious appearance of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. .

tygger2 · Friday at 4:25 PM

EddieM said:

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Titus 2:13

Bible translations old and new:

13 lokynge for that blessed hope and appearynge of the glory of ye greate God and of oure Sauioure Iesu Christ - Coverdale

13 lokynge for þe blessed hope & appearinge of the glory of the greate God, & of oure sauioure Iesu Christ, - The Great Bible

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and appearing of that glorie of that mightie God, and of our Sauiour Iesus Christ, - Geneva

13 abidinge the blessid hope and the comyng of the glorie of the greet God, and of oure sauyour Jhesu Crist; - Wycliffe

13 lokinge for that blessed hope and glorious apperenge of ye myghty god and of oure savioure Iesu Christ - Tyndale

13 in expectation of that desirable happiness, the glorious appearance of the supreme God, and of our saviour Jesus Christ, - Mace

13 awaiting the blessed hope of the appearance of the Glory of the great God and of our Saviour Christ Jesus, - Moffatt

13 expecting the blessed hope; namely, the appearing of the glory of the great God, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ; - The Living Oracles

13 looking for the blessed hope, and appearing of the glory of the great God and of our Saviour Jesus Christ; - Noyes

13 waiting for the blessed hope, the glorious appearing of the great God and of our Savior Christ Jesus, - Riverside

13 looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, - Sawyer

(New American Bible - 1970) as we await our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of the great God and of our Savior Christ Jesus

(New American Bible - 1991) as we await the blessed hope, the appearance of the glory of the great God and of our savior Jesus Christ

(New American Bible - 2010) as we await the blessed hope, the appearance of the glory of the great God and of our savior Jesus Christ

(A New Translation in Plain English - Charles K. Williams) while we wait for the blessed thing we hope for, the appearing of the glory of the great God and of our Saviour Jesus Christ

And while we live this life we hope and wait for the glorious denouement of the Great God and of Jesus Christ our saviour. - Phillips

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and appearing of that glory of that mighty God, and of our Savior Jesus Christ. - GNV

"looking for that blessed hope and glorious appearing of the mighty God and of our Saviour Jesus Christ," - NMB

According to An Idiom-Book of New Testament Greek, by C. F. D. Moule, Cambridge, England, 1971, p. 109, at Titus 2:13, the sense "of the Great God, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ ... is possible in [New Testament] Greek even without the repetition [of the definite article before the second noun]."

Noted British NT scholar and trinitarian clergyman Henry Alford wrote: "I would submit that [a translation which clearly differentiates God from Christ at Titus 2:13] satisfies all the grammatical requirements of the sentence: that it is both structurally and contextually more probable, and more agreeable to the Apostle’s [Paul’s] way of writing: and I have therefore preferred it." - The Greek Testament, p. 421, Vol. 3.

Pilgrimshope · Friday at 4:57 PM

EddieM said:

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, ( Christ Jesus ) justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s like a person and his right own tight arm they arent seperate people they are one person , but the right arm has a purpose in being manifest . It doesn’t speak and breath as it’s own person but it’s part of the whole person and has its purpose.

there came a time when the God of heaven was manifest in the flesh of mankind upon earth , this is Jesus the christ. God manifest in the flesh.

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭

God became flesh partaking of flesh and blood as he hadn’t beforhand ever been born upon earth like men are never been made flesh like men are

god did this for us he partook of flesh and blood on the body and form of Jesus Christ

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil…

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, ( like us when he was made flesh ) he is able to succour them that are tempted.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:14-16‬ ‭KJ

Jesus is indeed God but the head of Christ is God the father and the right arm of God the father is Jesus Christ the man God who was manifest in the flesh preached unto the people believed in in the world and then was caught up to the glory of heaven the glory of God the father

“I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is the eternal God but he was manifest in the flesh of man this is Jesus the Christ . It’s why when Jesus is standing before man he speaks of his father who is in heaven they are one but it’s as if a person is reaching his arm out to you it’s improper to reject Jesus divinity or his humanity both aspects are what makes him unique as Christ he is the mighty God of heaven and earth manifest in the form and flesh of mankind. And now seated at his right hand having made intercession for us and contonuong oir advocacy as our intercessor forever

“Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The reason he became a man is that before jesus came there was no man To intercede and so he became a man our intercessor

“And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now there is an intercessor since Jesus lived as a worthy sinless man died for mankind’s sin and rose by his righteousness and ascended to heaven as our intercessor forever

“Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The effect was this

“who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

hes constantly interceding now before that man was constantly accused by the law for thier sins now we have an advocate who suffered and died for our sins advocating for us with God

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We needed this mediation of a high priest that Jesus the righteous man of God offers

“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:5-6‬ ‭

Other priests sacrificed animals blood Jesus sacrificed himself

tygger2 · Friday at 5:57 PM

Pilgrimshope said:

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1 Tim. 3:16 ("God was manifest in the flesh")

12 As this is translated in the KJV it makes Paul say that Jesus is God "manifest in the flesh."
Although the KJV translates 1 Tim. 3:16 with "God" as above, nearly all other translations today use a word which refers, not to God, but to Jesus: "he" (NIV; RSV; NRSV; JB; NJB; REB; NAB [`70]; AT; GNB; CBW; and Beck's translation), "he who" (ASV; NASB; NEB; MLB; BBE; Phillips; and Moffatt), "who," or "which." Even the equally old Douay version has "which was manifested in the flesh." All the very best modern NT texts by trinitarian scholars (including Westcott and Hort, Nestle, and the text by the United Bible Societies) have the NT Greek word oV ("who") here instead of qeoV ("God"). Why do the very best trinitarian scholars support this NON-trinitarian translation of 1 Tim. 3:16?

Noted trinitarian Bible scholar Dr. Frederick C. Grant writes:

“A capital example [of NT manuscript changes] is found in 1 Timothy 3:16, where ‘OS’ (OC or ὃς, ‘who’) was later taken for theta sigma with a bar above, which stood for theos (θεὸς, ‘god’). Since the new reading suited …. the orthodox doctrine of the church [trinitarian, at this later date], it got into many of the later manuscripts – though the majority even of Byzantine manuscripts still preserved the true reading.” – p. 656, Encyclopedia Americana, vol. 3, 1957 ed. (This same statement by Dr. Grant was still to be found in the latest Encyclopedia Americana that I examined – the 1990 ed., pp.696-698, vol. 3.)

A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament by the United Bible Societies (1971 ed.) tells why the trinitarian UBS Committee chose ὃς [‘who’ or ‘he who’] as the original reading in their NT text for this verse.
“it is supported by the earliest and best uncials.” And, “Thus, no uncial (in the first hand [by the ORIGINAL writer]) earlier than the eighth or ninth century supports θεὸς [“God”]; all ancient versions presuppose ὃς [or OC, “who” - masc.] or ὅ[“which” - neut.]; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century [370 A.D.] testifies to the reading θεὸς. The reading θεὸς arose either (a) accidentally, through the misreading of OC as ΘC, or (b) deliberately....” - p. 641

In actuality it appears to be a combination of both (with the emphasis on the latter). You see, the word ὃς was written in the most ancient manuscripts as OC (“C” being a common form for the ancient Greek letter “S” at that time). Most often at this time the word for God (θεὸς) was written in abbreviated form as ΘC. However, to show that it was an abbreviated form a straight line, or bar, was always drawn above ΘC. So no copyist should have mistaken ὃς (or OC) for ΘC, in spite of their similarities, simply because of the prominent bar which appeared over the one and not over the other.

What may have happened was discovered by John J. Wetstein in 1714. As he was carefully examining one of the oldest NT manuscripts then known (the Alexandrine Manuscript in London) he noticed at 1 Tim. 3:16 that the word originally written there was OC but that a horizontal stroke from one of the words written on the other side of the manuscript showed through very faintly in the middle of the O. This still would not qualify as an abbreviation for θεὸς, of course, but Wetstein discovered that some person at a much later date and in a different style from the original writer had deliberately added a bar above the original word! Anyone copying from this manuscript after it had been deliberately changed would be likely to incorporate the counterfeit ΘC [with bar above it] into his new copy (especially since it reflected his own trinitarian views)!

Of course, since Wetstein’s day many more ancient NT manuscripts have been discovered and none of them before the eighth century A.D. have been found with ΘC (“God”) at this verse!

Trinitarian scholar Murray J. Harris also concludes:

“The strength of the external evidence favoring OC [‘who’], along with considerations of transcriptional and intrinsic probability, have prompted textual critics virtually unanimously to regard OC as the original text, a judgment reflected in NA(26) [Nestle-Aland text] and UBS (1,2,3) [United Bible Societies text] (with a ‘B’ rating) [also the Westcott & Hort text]. Accordingly, 1 Tim 3:16 is not an instance of the Christological [‘Jesus is God’] use of θεὸς.” - Jesus as God, p. 268, Baker Book House, 1992.

And trinitarian (Southern Baptist) NT Greek scholar A. T. Robertson wrote about this scripture:

“He who (hos [or OC in the original text]). The correct text, not theos (God) the reading of the Textus Receptus ... nor ho (neuter relative [pronoun]), agreeing with [the neuter] musterion [‘mystery’] the reading of Western documents.” - p. 577, Vol. 4, Word Pictures in the New Testament, Broadman Press.
And even hyper-trinitarian NT Greek scholar, Daniel B. Wallace uses the relative pronoun ὃς (‘who’) in this scripture and tells us:

“The textual variant θεὸς [‘god’] in the place of ὃς[‘who’ or ‘he who’] has been adamantly defended by some scholars, particularly those of the ‘majority text’ school. Not only is such a reading poorly attested, but the syntactical argument that ‘mystery’ (μυστήριον) being a neuter noun, cannot be followed by the masculine pronoun (ὃς) is entirely without weight. As attractive theologically [for trinitarians, of course] as the reading θεὸς may be, it is spurious. To reject it is not to deny the deity of Christ, of course; it is just to deny any explicit reference in this text.” [italicized emphasis is by Wallace]. - pp. 341-342, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Zondervan, 1996.

The correct rendering of 1 Tim. 3:16, then, is: “He who was revealed in the flesh ….” - NASB. Cf. ASV; RSV; NRSV; NAB; JB; NJB; NIV; NEB; REB; ESV; Douay-Rheims; TEV; CEV; BBE; NLV; God’s Word; New Century Version; Holman NT; ISV NT; Lexham English Bible; The Message; Weymouth; Moffatt; etc.

Even if we were to insist that those later manuscripts that used theos were, somehow, correct, we would have to recognize that it is the anarthrous (without the definite article) theos which we find. This is rarely, if ever, the form used for the only true God (when the known exceptions are taken into account). Instead, it either points to the probability that it is a corrupted os (which of course would not have the article in the first place), or, less probable, but still possible, that Christ is being called "a god" - see the BOWGOD and DEF studies.

GWH · Saturday at 6:21 AM

EddieM said:

Our God and Savior, Jesus Christ
See Titus 2.13, cf. 2 Peter 1.1

Two of the shortest books of the New Testament contain similar - and very strong - affirmations of Jesus Christ as God. In his epistle to Titus, the apostle Paul states that Christians "wait for the blessed hope and the manifestation of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13).

The equally short epistle of 2 Peter opens by describing its readers as "those who have received a faith as precious as ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ" (1:1). Both of these texts describe Jesus using the two titles God and Savior. Not everyone agrees that these verses call Jesus "God" One cult, for example, translates Titus 2:13 "of the great God and of [the] Savior of us, Christ Jesus" and 2 Peter 1:1 "of our God and [the] Savior Jesus Christ" (NWT). The bracketed insertions of the word ‘the’ make a significant difference. Read these verses without the bracketed insertions - especially 2 Peter 1:1 - and they sound like they are referring to Jesus as both God and the pronoun appears.)

When this construction occurs in ancient Greek using singular personal nouns that are not proper names (that is, nouns like father, Lord, king, not Jesus, Peter, or Paul), the two nouns refer to the same person. The first writer to analyze this construction in a formal way did so in the late eighteenth century. He was an English Christian abolitionist named Granville Sharp; for that reason, the analysis of this construction is commonly known as Granville Sharp's rule. The New Testament contains plenty of examples supporting Sharp's rule. The epistles of Paul, for example, refer to "our God and Father" (Gal. 1:4; Phil. 4:20; 1 Thess. 1:3; 3:11, 13) and "the God and Father" (Rom. 15:6; 1 Cor. 15:24), which certainly refer to one person by both titles God and Father. There are numerous additional examples, many of little or no theological import.

The evidence that Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 call Jesus God goes beyond Sharp's rule. In Titus, the expression "our Savior" (soteros hemon) occurs six times. In five of those six occurrences, the article "the" (tou) immediately precedes "our Savior" (1:3, 4; 2:10; 3:4, 6); the one exception is Titus 2:13. The obvious and only good explanation for this variation is that "our Savior" is governed by the same article that governs "great God." Another piece of evidence in the context of Titus 2:13 is Paul's use of the word epiphaneia ("appearing”).

Another piece of evidence in the context of Titus 2:13 is Paul's use of the word epiphaneia ("appearing,”) from which we derive the word epiphany. In the Bible this word occurs only in Paul's writings, mostly in the Pastoral Epistles (2 Thess. 2:8; 1 Tim. 6:14; 2 Tim. 1:10; 4:1, 8; Titus 2:13), and always referring to the appearing of Jesus Christ, unless Titus 2:13 is the sole exception. The close parallel between Titus 2:13 and 2 Timothy 1:10 ("the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus") effectively rules out the possibility that Titus 2:13 is an exception. So when Paul says that Christians are awaiting "the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13), we can be sure that the one who will be "appearing" will indeed be Jesus Christ.

Several factors cumulatively offer strong support for understanding "Jesus Christ" to be identifying "our great God and Savior," not "the glory," in Titus 2:13.
1. "Our great God and Savior" is immediately adjacent to "Jesus Christ."
2. It would be odd to speak of the appearing of God's glory and not mean that the one who is appearing is God.
3. Paul never refers to Jesus as God's "glory" (2 Cor. 4:4, 6).
4. All other things being equal, a personal designation like "our great God and Savior" is more likely to be identified as a person ("Jesus Christ") than is an abstraction ("the glory").
5. Elsewhere in the Pastoral Epistles (1 and 2 Timothy, Titus), whenever Paul uses the word epiphaneia ("appearing"), it refers to the manifestation of Jesus Christ (1 Tim. 6:14; 2 Tim. 1:10; 4:1, 8), not of an abstract quality (“the glory”) related to God or Christ.
6. In as many as twelve out of eighteen times in his epistles that Paul uses the term "the glory" in the genitive case (tes doxes), it likely functions as a descriptive modifier of the preceding noun (Rom. 8:21; 9:23; Col. 1:11, 27; 1 Tim. 1:11; Titus 2:13). English translations often express this usage by the rendering "glorious." Thus, Titus 2:13 maybe better translated "the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ."
7. Paul immediately follows his reference to Jesus Christ by speaking of his accomplishments for our salvation (Titus 2:14), confirming that in this context Jesus Christ is "our Savior."
8. The pattern of Paul's references to "our Savior" in Titus - three references to "God our Savior" each followed closely by a reference to Jesus Christ as "our Savior" (1:3, 4; 2:10, 13; 3:4, 6) - is disrupted if 2:13 does not refer to Jesus Christ as Savior.

The epistle of 2 Peter, then, opens by affirming that Jesus Christ is "our God and Savior." It closes, appropriately, with a doxology of praise to Jesus Christ: "But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen" (2 Peter 3:18). The verbal parallels in those opening and closing verses between "our God and Savior Jesus Christ" and "our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ," as well as the concluding doxology directing eternal glory to Jesus Christ, are stunningly clear affirmations that Jesus Christ is indeed our Lord and our God.

While looking at Titus 2:13 I noticed that 2:11 supports what I call "seeking grace", so added it to TOP #149 on our website.
Thanks.

TOP #149: Sinners are saved by God’s grace through their faith, which is not a meritorious work. [EPH 2:8-9] This precludes any grounds for boasting that one deserves salvation because of a person’s own goodness (cf. TOP #250). God’s grace begins by enabling all sinners to seek Him and find salvation, which might be called “seeking grace” (MT 7:7, TIT 2:11).

(I am considering where the reference to Jesus as God and Savior might need to be added.)

vassal · Saturday at 10:22 AM

EddieM said:

Our God and Savior, Jesus Christ
See Titus 2.13, cf. 2 Peter 1.1

Two of the shortest books of the New Testament contain similar - and very strong - affirmations of Jesus Christ as God. In his epistle to Titus, the apostle Paul states that Christians "wait for the blessed hope and the manifestation of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13).

The equally short epistle of 2 Peter opens by describing its readers as "those who have received a faith as precious as ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ" (1:1). Both of these texts describe Jesus using the two titles God and Savior. Not everyone agrees that these verses call Jesus "God" One cult, for example, translates Titus 2:13 "of the great God and of [the] Savior of us, Christ Jesus" and 2 Peter 1:1 "of our God and [the] Savior Jesus Christ" (NWT). The bracketed insertions of the word ‘the’ make a significant difference. Read these verses without the bracketed insertions - especially 2 Peter 1:1 - and they sound like they are referring to Jesus as both God and the pronoun appears.)

When this construction occurs in ancient Greek using singular personal nouns that are not proper names (that is, nouns like father, Lord, king, not Jesus, Peter, or Paul), the two nouns refer to the same person. The first writer to analyze this construction in a formal way did so in the late eighteenth century. He was an English Christian abolitionist named Granville Sharp; for that reason, the analysis of this construction is commonly known as Granville Sharp's rule. The New Testament contains plenty of examples supporting Sharp's rule. The epistles of Paul, for example, refer to "our God and Father" (Gal. 1:4; Phil. 4:20; 1 Thess. 1:3; 3:11, 13) and "the God and Father" (Rom. 15:6; 1 Cor. 15:24), which certainly refer to one person by both titles God and Father. There are numerous additional examples, many of little or no theological import.

The evidence that Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 call Jesus God goes beyond Sharp's rule. In Titus, the expression "our Savior" (soteros hemon) occurs six times. In five of those six occurrences, the article "the" (tou) immediately precedes "our Savior" (1:3, 4; 2:10; 3:4, 6); the one exception is Titus 2:13. The obvious and only good explanation for this variation is that "our Savior" is governed by the same article that governs "great God." Another piece of evidence in the context of Titus 2:13 is Paul's use of the word epiphaneia ("appearing”).

Another piece of evidence in the context of Titus 2:13 is Paul's use of the word epiphaneia ("appearing,”) from which we derive the word epiphany. In the Bible this word occurs only in Paul's writings, mostly in the Pastoral Epistles (2 Thess. 2:8; 1 Tim. 6:14; 2 Tim. 1:10; 4:1, 8; Titus 2:13), and always referring to the appearing of Jesus Christ, unless Titus 2:13 is the sole exception. The close parallel between Titus 2:13 and 2 Timothy 1:10 ("the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus") effectively rules out the possibility that Titus 2:13 is an exception. So when Paul says that Christians are awaiting "the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13), we can be sure that the one who will be "appearing" will indeed be Jesus Christ.

Several factors cumulatively offer strong support for understanding "Jesus Christ" to be identifying "our great God and Savior," not "the glory," in Titus 2:13.
1. "Our great God and Savior" is immediately adjacent to "Jesus Christ."
2. It would be odd to speak of the appearing of God's glory and not mean that the one who is appearing is God.
3. Paul never refers to Jesus as God's "glory" (2 Cor. 4:4, 6).
4. All other things being equal, a personal designation like "our great God and Savior" is more likely to be identified as a person ("Jesus Christ") than is an abstraction ("the glory").
5. Elsewhere in the Pastoral Epistles (1 and 2 Timothy, Titus), whenever Paul uses the word epiphaneia ("appearing"), it refers to the manifestation of Jesus Christ (1 Tim. 6:14; 2 Tim. 1:10; 4:1, 8), not of an abstract quality (“the glory”) related to God or Christ.
6. In as many as twelve out of eighteen times in his epistles that Paul uses the term "the glory" in the genitive case (tes doxes), it likely functions as a descriptive modifier of the preceding noun (Rom. 8:21; 9:23; Col. 1:11, 27; 1 Tim. 1:11; Titus 2:13). English translations often express this usage by the rendering "glorious." Thus, Titus 2:13 maybe better translated "the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ."
7. Paul immediately follows his reference to Jesus Christ by speaking of his accomplishments for our salvation (Titus 2:14), confirming that in this context Jesus Christ is "our Savior."
8. The pattern of Paul's references to "our Savior" in Titus - three references to "God our Savior" each followed closely by a reference to Jesus Christ as "our Savior" (1:3, 4; 2:10, 13; 3:4, 6) - is disrupted if 2:13 does not refer to Jesus Christ as Savior.

The epistle of 2 Peter, then, opens by affirming that Jesus Christ is "our God and Savior." It closes, appropriately, with a doxology of praise to Jesus Christ: "But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen" (2 Peter 3:18). The verbal parallels in those opening and closing verses between "our God and Savior Jesus Christ" and "our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ," as well as the concluding doxology directing eternal glory to Jesus Christ, are stunningly clear affirmations that Jesus Christ is indeed our Lord and our God.

not one word from Jesus from the books of Matthew, John, Luke, Mark or of the old testament points to Jesus, the Messiah? all was said before paul said it

Pilgrimshope · Saturday at 3:36 PM

tygger2 said:

................................................................................................

1 Tim. 3:16 ("God was manifest in the flesh")

12 As this is translated in the KJV it makes Paul say that Jesus is God "manifest in the flesh."
Although the KJV translates 1 Tim. 3:16 with "God" as above, nearly all other translations today use a word which refers, not to God, but to Jesus: "he" (NIV; RSV; NRSV; JB; NJB; REB; NAB [`70]; AT; GNB; CBW; and Beck's translation), "he who" (ASV; NASB; NEB; MLB; BBE; Phillips; and Moffatt), "who," or "which." Even the equally old Douay version has "which was manifested in the flesh." All the very best modern NT texts by trinitarian scholars (including Westcott and Hort, Nestle, and the text by the United Bible Societies) have the NT Greek word oV ("who") here instead of qeoV ("God"). Why do the very best trinitarian scholars support this NON-trinitarian translation of 1 Tim. 3:16?

Noted trinitarian Bible scholar Dr. Frederick C. Grant writes:

“A capital example [of NT manuscript changes] is found in 1 Timothy 3:16, where ‘OS’ (OC or ὃς, ‘who’) was later taken for theta sigma with a bar above, which stood for theos (θεὸς, ‘god’). Since the new reading suited …. the orthodox doctrine of the church [trinitarian, at this later date], it got into many of the later manuscripts – though the majority even of Byzantine manuscripts still preserved the true reading.” – p. 656, Encyclopedia Americana, vol. 3, 1957 ed. (This same statement by Dr. Grant was still to be found in the latest Encyclopedia Americana that I examined – the 1990 ed., pp.696-698, vol. 3.)

A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament by the United Bible Societies (1971 ed.) tells why the trinitarian UBS Committee chose ὃς [‘who’ or ‘he who’] as the original reading in their NT text for this verse.
“it is supported by the earliest and best uncials.” And, “Thus, no uncial (in the first hand [by the ORIGINAL writer]) earlier than the eighth or ninth century supports θεὸς [“God”]; all ancient versions presuppose ὃς [or OC, “who” - masc.] or ὅ[“which” - neut.]; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century [370 A.D.] testifies to the reading θεὸς. The reading θεὸς arose either (a) accidentally, through the misreading of OC as ΘC, or (b) deliberately....” - p. 641

In actuality it appears to be a combination of both (with the emphasis on the latter). You see, the word ὃς was written in the most ancient manuscripts as OC (“C” being a common form for the ancient Greek letter “S” at that time). Most often at this time the word for God (θεὸς) was written in abbreviated form as ΘC. However, to show that it was an abbreviated form a straight line, or bar, was always drawn above ΘC. So no copyist should have mistaken ὃς (or OC) for ΘC, in spite of their similarities, simply because of the prominent bar which appeared over the one and not over the other.

What may have happened was discovered by John J. Wetstein in 1714. As he was carefully examining one of the oldest NT manuscripts then known (the Alexandrine Manuscript in London) he noticed at 1 Tim. 3:16 that the word originally written there was OC but that a horizontal stroke from one of the words written on the other side of the manuscript showed through very faintly in the middle of the O. This still would not qualify as an abbreviation for θεὸς, of course, but Wetstein discovered that some person at a much later date and in a different style from the original writer had deliberately added a bar above the original word! Anyone copying from this manuscript after it had been deliberately changed would be likely to incorporate the counterfeit ΘC [with bar above it] into his new copy (especially since it reflected his own trinitarian views)!

Of course, since Wetstein’s day many more ancient NT manuscripts have been discovered and none of them before the eighth century A.D. have been found with ΘC (“God”) at this verse!

Trinitarian scholar Murray J. Harris also concludes:

“The strength of the external evidence favoring OC [‘who’], along with considerations of transcriptional and intrinsic probability, have prompted textual critics virtually unanimously to regard OC as the original text, a judgment reflected in NA(26) [Nestle-Aland text] and UBS (1,2,3) [United Bible Societies text] (with a ‘B’ rating) [also the Westcott & Hort text]. Accordingly, 1 Tim 3:16 is not an instance of the Christological [‘Jesus is God’] use of θεὸς.” - Jesus as God, p. 268, Baker Book House, 1992.

And trinitarian (Southern Baptist) NT Greek scholar A. T. Robertson wrote about this scripture:

“He who (hos [or OC in the original text]). The correct text, not theos (God) the reading of the Textus Receptus ... nor ho (neuter relative [pronoun]), agreeing with [the neuter] musterion [‘mystery’] the reading of Western documents.” - p. 577, Vol. 4, Word Pictures in the New Testament, Broadman Press.
And even hyper-trinitarian NT Greek scholar, Daniel B. Wallace uses the relative pronoun ὃς (‘who’) in this scripture and tells us:

“The textual variant θεὸς [‘god’] in the place of ὃς[‘who’ or ‘he who’] has been adamantly defended by some scholars, particularly those of the ‘majority text’ school. Not only is such a reading poorly attested, but the syntactical argument that ‘mystery’ (μυστήριον) being a neuter noun, cannot be followed by the masculine pronoun (ὃς) is entirely without weight. As attractive theologically [for trinitarians, of course] as the reading θεὸς may be, it is spurious. To reject it is not to deny the deity of Christ, of course; it is just to deny any explicit reference in this text.” [italicized emphasis is by Wallace]. - pp. 341-342, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Zondervan, 1996.

The correct rendering of 1 Tim. 3:16, then, is: “He who was revealed in the flesh ….” - NASB. Cf. ASV; RSV; NRSV; NAB; JB; NJB; NIV; NEB; REB; ESV; Douay-Rheims; TEV; CEV; BBE; NLV; God’s Word; New Century Version; Holman NT; ISV NT; Lexham English Bible; The Message; Weymouth; Moffatt; etc.

Even if we were to insist that those later manuscripts that used theos were, somehow, correct, we would have to recognize that it is the anarthrous (without the definite article) theos which we find. This is rarely, if ever, the form used for the only true God (when the known exceptions are taken into account). Instead, it either points to the probability that it is a corrupted os (which of course would not have the article in the first place), or, less probable, but still possible, that Christ is being called "a god" - see the BOWGOD and DEF studies.

I’m sorry I couldn’t follow more than two words per paragraph of that

Pilgrimshope · Saturday at 3:41 PM

vassal said:

In fact paul says this under oath

“Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Grace911 · Saturday at 5:55 PM

Why are these NT red letter words below emphasizing that Jesus was sent by Yehovah and Jesus does nothing except what Yehovah commanded him to say and do?

And what was the WORK Jesus must do? Easy question and the answer is to live out doing all of Torah perfectly (so we can walk as He did), die AND RESURRECT (so we can also die to our old sinful life and on the day of resurrection be counted alive for ever more.)

What is the importance of Jesus' RESURRECTION? See Romans 7:1-4 (same Deuteronomy 24:1-4)

Is this "law" so that we who are now counted as gentiles, can re-enter the Mount Sinai Covenant (May 25, 1379 BC) and once again be married to Yehovah?

I see scriptures that allude that Yehovah is Yeshua (salvation). For example: Isa_12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; H3444(Yeshua) I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH H3068 is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation. H3444(Yeshua)

Mat_10:40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Mar_9:37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.

Luk_4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luk_9:48 And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

Luk_10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Joh_1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Joh_4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Joh_5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Joh_5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Joh_5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

Joh_5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Joh_6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Joh_6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Joh_6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

Joh_7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Joh_7:28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not.

Joh_7:29 But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me.

Joh_7:33 Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.

Joh_8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

Joh_8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

Joh_8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

Joh_8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Joh_8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Joh_9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

Joh_11:42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

Joh_12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.

Joh_12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

Joh_12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Joh_13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Joh_14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Joh_15:21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

Joh_16:5 But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?

Joh_17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

Joh_17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Joh_17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Joh_17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

Joh_20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

tygger2 · Saturday at 6:14 PM

Grace911 said:

Why are these NT red letter words below emphasizing that Jesus was sent by Yehovah and Jesus does nothing except what Yehovah commanded him to say and do?

And what was the WORK Jesus must do? Easy question and the answer is to live out doing all of Torah perfectly (so we can walk as He did), die AND RESURRECT (so we can also die to our old sinful life and on the day of resurrection be counted alive for ever more.)

What is the importance of Jesus' RESURRECTION? See Romans 7:1-4 (same Deuteronomy 24:1-4)

Is this "law" so that we who are now counted as gentiles, can re-enter the Mount Sinai Covenant (May 25, 1379 BC) and once again be married to Yehovah?

I see scriptures that allude that Yehovah is Yeshua (salvation). For example: Isa_12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; H3444(Yeshua) I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH H3068 is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation. H3444(Yeshua)

Mat_10:40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Mar_9:37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.

Luk_4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luk_9:48 And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

Luk_10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Joh_1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Joh_4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Joh_5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Joh_5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Joh_5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

Joh_5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Joh_6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Joh_6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Joh_6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

Joh_7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Joh_7:28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not.

Joh_7:29 But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me.

Joh_7:33 Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.

Joh_8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

Joh_8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

Joh_8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

Joh_8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Joh_8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Joh_9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

Joh_11:42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

Joh_12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.

Joh_12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

Joh_12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Joh_13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Joh_14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Joh_15:21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

Joh_16:5 But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?

Joh_17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

Joh_17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Joh_17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Joh_17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

Joh_20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

........................................................................................

Jesus prayer to the Father:
KJV
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

Grace911 · Saturday at 7:09 PM

tygger2 said:

I read this verse John 17:3 and say to myself "that I might know the only true God and His salvation which He sent.

Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is ONE LORD." LORD = YHWH (H3068) and again Isaiah 12:2 "Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation. (Yeshua H3444) Yeshua is Jesus Hebrew name. Jesus is a Greek translation.

When I understood the true God of Israel through Torah (means Instructions) then I accepted why JESUS WAS SENT.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Torah tells me every law I am to keep. Jesus kept Torah perfectly and thus He was not a sinner, but was made sin (for a moment) to pay my debt that I owed and He being pierced proves my debt was paid.

Rev_1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

I am the reason He was pierced. And I will wail because of His coming again with His scars.

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Isa 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Isa 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. (Again, the Torah describes blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience.

2ndTimeIsTheCharm · Saturday at 10:46 PM

tygger2 said:

Lol, your understanding of what Jesus said is so retarded!

Jesus is also God as part of the Trinity, He said that to make the personal distinction between His Father and Himself within that Trinity. The Bible also has other verses that declare Jesus is God - so you can't just twist one verse out of context and make a retarded universal doctrine from that.

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