Who is Elihu?

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ZNP

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If you don't comprehend that the LORD answered Job, was the LORD asking who it was that was "speaking words without knowledge?" then it would be easy to miss the implication that the LORD was inferring it was Elihu if you have never read, "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Elihu had said to Job, "Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God.
Do you know when God made them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine?


The LORD was asking Elihu where he was "when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding."

When Elihu didn't answer, it is written "Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said, Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproved God, let him answer it. Moreover infers by implication that the person who was asked the first question was be addressed again.

When Job answered the LORD, it is written "Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said". it is inferred by implication that is when the question that followed was being asked of Job.
Yes I can comprehend, now I hear the Lord asking me, why are you wasting time talking with someone without knowledge, so I'll leave it there.
 

ZNP

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If you don't comprehend that the LORD answered Job, was the LORD asking who it was that was "speaking words without knowledge?" then it would be easy to miss the implication that the LORD was inferring it was Elihu if you have never read, "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Elihu had said to Job, "Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God.
Do you know when God made them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine?


The LORD was asking Elihu where he was "when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding."

When Elihu didn't answer, it is written "Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said, Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproved God, let him answer it. Moreover infers by implication that the person who was asked the first question was be addressed again.

When Job answered the LORD, it is written "Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said". it is inferred by implication that is when the question that followed was being asked of Job.
Oh yes, I can comprehend who is speaking words without knowledge.
 

ZNP

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Self Justification -- the Ego run amok

32:1 So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.

Job was self righteous. We see this all the time among the religious.

2 Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.

When things happen to us we can blame others, but that is useless. The only person we have control over is ourselves. Instead of harping on what others did we should examine what we did. James says that God does not tempt anyone with sin. It is our own lusts that fall to temptation.

3 Also against his three friends was his wrath kindled, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.

This is also a frequent and ugly occurrence. We see this in the New Testament "who sinned this guy or his parents that he is born blind?" We assume any time something "bad" happens to someone it is the result of that person sinning. But Jesus gave us a third option, John 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

This is why God rebuked the three friends and they had to be reconciled back to Job. They had assumed he had sinned and thus condemned him. That is not righteous, we need a trial, we need evidence. There is nothing in the Bible that says "to be born blind" is a sin, so condemning someone because something happened to them that is a sin because Jesus did say "judge not lest you be judged for with what judgment you judge you shall be judged".

To be self righteous is to be proud and we are told that pride goes before a fall. So then the proper response to things that happen to you, like the things that happened to Job, is to look to the Lord. First examine yourself, is there anything that you should confess and repent of. No doubt pride and being self righteous would be two things to confess and repent of. Then we are to seek the Lord to see how the works of God might be manifested in this experience. We are one with Jesus, if we go through something He is also going through it.


I remember a playoff game in Boston where the air conditioning went out. It was over 90 degrees on the basketball court. All the players were dragging, hardly able to play, except for one, Larry Bird. He didn't complain, played like nothing was wrong. After the game they asked him about that and he said it wasn't any hotter there than back in Indiana in the summer where he played in the offseason. The air conditioning going out manifested what was within each of these players.

I remember a playoff game in Utah. The night before the game Michael Jordan orders a pizza and the people who made it put something on it to make him sick. During the game the next day they claimed he "had the flu" but the truth was he had been poisoned. Not to kill him but just to help their team win. Still he played the whole game and was instrumental in winning the game and the series. Again, did Michael Jordan sin that this happened or did it happen to manifest the works of God in him? Actually, it was both. His teammates sensed something was very wrong about the pizza, they didn't eat it and warned him not to, but he ate the whole thing. So he did not listen to their warnings, but on the other hand we can see God wanting everyone to see what had been wrought within him.

I remember as a kid we had a Boston Whaler, and one of the requirments my dad had was that we carried this map with us on that boat. I hated that, there was no place to put that map, it would fly around, get wet, it was a mess. Then one morning my father and I are pulling up lobster pots and when we are done the fog is so thick we couldn't see two feet in front of us. The boat was in the midst of rocks. I thought there was no way out, but that was when my dad used that map. That only happened once in all the time we had the boat, that was the Lord letting me see that yes, most of the time we didn't need the map, but when we did need it, then it was invaluable. Did God send the fog because in my mind I was questioning my dad or was it because God wanted to manifest my father's wisdom?
 

ZNP

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Let me give you another example.

The San Francisco 49ers were playing the Dallas Cowboys in the championship game. The winner goes to the superbowl. The 49ers were winning near the end of the game when their safety, Ronnie Lott stepped in front of a receiver and intercepted a pass. That would have sealed the win for the 49ers but the refs threw a flag. They called pass interference. This is one of the most blatant bad calls in the history of the NFL, if that call was valid it would make it a penalty to intercept a pass, as though that is "pass interference". The penalty helped Dallas to go on and score. Now, the 49ers needed a touchdown to win. You can whine and complain about the refs being unfair or you can look at this as a way to manifest the works of God and put all the arrogant ones to an open shame. The refs were in a position to call back any touchdown claiming there was a hold on the offensive line. On the other hand the only way the 49ers win is with a touchdown so they can let them move down the field just so long as they don't score a touchdown. On the final play, three men break through the line and chase down Montana who is fleeing to the sideline when he throws the ball out of bounds. At least that is what it appeared he had done. The play is called "the catch" because everyone assumed he had thrown it away only for the ball to be caught and the 49ers to win. When people realized what had happened it was way too late to throw a flag.

When things happen to us, if Jesus Christ, the Lord of all, is within you, don't whine and complain and blame the refs. Realize this is an opportunity for Jesus Christ to be manifested within you.

Galatians 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: 17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
 
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this thread is about Elihu, not about Job.

same reason i haven't been saying nice things about Hosea in this thread.
Correct. The reason that point was made was to highlight a clear example of affirmation being given to a character in this story. There are 4 explicit references for Job, and there are zero explicit references for Elihu. We see praise for Job. We do not see praise for Elihu.
 
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perhaps we should just simply ask this question:

when troubled times come in your life, is it righteous to complain about how God is treating you?

yes or no?
Was it righteous for Jesus to say on the Cross, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
 
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I know we don't agree here. That's fine. I'll just add that the lack of a rebuke is not evidence of praise or affirmation of him. I know some want that to be the case, but he is not expressly praised or affirmed either. Also, consider the other possibility of his whereabouts when the whirlwind arrives. How do we know he was even there to be rebuked / not rebuked in the first place?
 
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That wasn't a logical argument, it was a fact. Everything else you say has no bearing on the validity of that fact.

You are right. It is a fact that Elihu is not expressly rebuked by God, but your logic is that it means he is correct, right? Another fact of this story is that neither is Elihu expressly affirmed by God either. So by this logic, someone else could easily say he is not correct because God never expressly affirms him either.
 

ZNP

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No, I made no conclusions from that. The only conclusion I think is fair is to point out that Job is rebuked (or if you prefer "corrected" by God) and the other three friends are rebuked and need to be reconciled. There is no such requirement made on Elihu and to our knowledge there is no correction made to him either. Therefore to conclude anything negative about his participation in the discussion has no support from God.

To not have evidence is not the same thing as having evidence. This is generally true, if I say there was no evidence that I committed a crime, that is not the same thing as saying I had evidence that I didn't commit a crime. However, I am not omniscient nor am I omnipotent. God is both. I do not think it is unreasonable in the context of God correcting everyone else to assume that if Elihu had done or said anything that God needed to correct He would have.
 
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Oh yes, I can comprehend who is speaking words without knowledge.
Job 37:14-17
14 Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God.
15 Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine?
16 Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge?
17 How thy garments are warm, when he quieteth the earth by the south wind?


LOL. So tell us, what caused the cloud of the LORD ? what is the balancing of the clouds? How does the wind from the south warm your garment when you live in the southern hemisphere?

If you can't answer the questions then you don't know whether or not what Elihu said has any truth to it or not.

So what was the garment that the LORD covered the earth with?

Yes I can comprehend, now I hear the Lord asking me, why are you wasting time talking with someone without knowledge, so I'll leave it there. (See 1 Peter 3:15)
 

ZNP

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Job 37:14-17
14 Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God.
15 Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine?
16 Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge?
17 How thy garments are warm, when he quieteth the earth by the south wind?


LOL. So tell us, what caused the cloud of the LORD ? what is the balancing of the clouds? How does the wind from the south warm your garment when you live in the southern hemisphere?

If you can't answer the questions then you don't know whether or not what Elihu said has any truth to it or not.

So what was the garment that the LORD covered the earth with?

Yes I can comprehend, now I hear the Lord asking me, why are you wasting time talking with someone without knowledge, so I'll leave it there. (See 1 Peter 3:15)
 

ZNP

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Job 37:14-17
14 Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God.
The Lord is talking about the previous verse where the rain comes for correction or for mercy. That is what I was sharing with you, when stuff happens, it is like the rain falling. It could be for correction. If you built your house on the sand and the storm comes and washes away your house. Or it could be for mercy just like Caleb said, the giants are our food.

15 Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine?
The clouds are filled with rain and God sends them to different places for different purposes. Do you know how this one becomes filled with grace that they can minister to others? Paul told us in Corinthians that God comforts us in all our tribulation so that we might be able to comfort others with the same comfort God has comforted us. That is how the clouds are filled with grace. The comfort that God comforts Job with in his tribulations will fill him with grace that he can minister to others just like these clouds.

16 Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge?
A typical cumulus cloud can weigh 500,000 kilograms and yet it floats along as though it is weightless. This is a miracle that we see every day like the Lord walking on water, but the Lord describes it as a gymnast on a balance beam. Think of how much training, how many hours of training it takes for these olympic gymnasts. It is the same way with those who wish to be trained to minister grace. God is perfect in knowledge and the things you and I think are impossible are not impossible to God. Job was complaining because his situation appeared impossible, but God was saying, it is not impossible to Him.

17 How thy garments are warm, when he quieteth the earth by the south wind?
In the gospels we see a house where the wind and rain beat upon it. We see disciples in the boat with the wind contrary to them. We see Peter trying to walk on water and when he sees the wind he gets scared. But in all of the gospels we see Jesus rebuke the wind and the disciples marvel at what manner of man is this that even the wind and waves obey Him. In John we are told that the believers, every one that is born of the Spirit, is like the wind. It goes where it wishes, you hear the sound of their speaking, but you don't know where they came from or where they are going. The south wind brings warmth. In the Bible there are fierce winds, mighty winds, and winds that cause ships to crash on the rocks. But the word refers to the spirit and your spirit is subject to the prophet so that you can minister grace and love.

Job is experiencing the fierce winds and the mighty winds because he hasn't turned to pray to the one to whom the wind is subject. Most of us first met Jesus in church where it was a warm south wind. But

What manner of man is this! for he commandeth even the winds and water, and they obey him.

At some point in our life we need to appreciate that the Lord Jesus is such a man and that all the winds are subject to Him.
 
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Elihu introduces himself as the youngest of those talking to Job. Beyond that, we don't know much about this guy.

The Lord in chapter 42 doesn't say anything good or bad about him, like He does to Job and his 3 friends. He just kinda disappears.

Elihu says some apparent good things, but there might be some little hints that maybe something is amiss with him. I have heard some say that he is Satan, and I've heard others say he is a Christophany (appearance of Christ in O.T.)

I honestly don't know what to think about him, but I suspect he is very important. I'd be interested to hear what others think about him.
Elihu is the youngest because of a request Job made in chapter 9 and chapter 13. Job requested a daysman, a man of clay who would not terrify Job as God did. That is the simplest answer for why he was so young.

Elihu said to Job, "Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay." (Job 33:6)

The easiest way to understand this book is to see the relationship between the way Israel was treated, and the way Job is treated. They both were the apple of God's eye. They both had a zeal for God but without knowledge. (Romans 10:2 and Job 38:2) (Deut. 32)
 
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In John we are told that the believers, every one that is born of the Spirit, is like the wind.
Actually it is written that Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus when he said that Nicodemus hears the wind blow, but he doesn't know from where it came or where it goes. Jesus then says so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.
It goes where it wishes, you hear the sound of their speaking, but you don't know where they came from or where they are going.
Since the 'Spirit" is pneuma, or breath, then you might read the Book of the Preacher.

19 For that which befalls the sons of men befalls beasts; even one thing befalls them: as the one dies, so dies the other; yea, they have all one breath;
Eccl 3:19
 

FredVB

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Elihu was a common name. Among several with this name in the Bible, one was a brother of David, one was an ancestor to David, and another one was an ancestor to Samuel. This Elihu who spoke to Job seems to be a common man as well, though showing godly wisdom while being younger than others there. God would have been using him, which was in a way a preparation to have Job ready to hear God, but I do not think of this Elihu more than that, there is no scripture passage to show me he is more than that.
 
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Elihu was a common name. Among several with this name in the Bible, one was a brother of David, one was an ancestor to David, and another one was an ancestor to Samuel. This Elihu who spoke to Job seems to be a common man as well, though showing godly wisdom while being younger than others there. God would have been using him, which was in a way a preparation to have Job ready to hear God, but I do not think of this Elihu more than that, there is no scripture passage to show me he is more than that.
What is your opinion of Elihu burning with anger?
 
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Elihu was on the scene and given 6 chapters of this book at the bequest of Job. Common sense should tell us that God would not have given six chapters of this book to Elihu without a reason. When Elihu speaks we hear only silence from his audience. Elihu tells us that he is in the place of God. Job had made this request to God twice.

We hear of Elihu's wrath even before we know who he is. If you know that Elihu is standing in the place of God, then you know that this is God's wrath.

Why does God have wrath against Job? Because Job condemned God, so that Job might be righteous. Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

Elihu puts it this way. Job 32:2 Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.

God does not condemn Job in chapter 42:7 because Job has now repented and accepted God's righteousness. God does condemn the three friends because their situation has not changed. Their situation has remained the same as when Elihu first spoke to them.
 
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Why does God have wrath against Job? Because Job condemned God, so that Job might be righteous. Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Elihu puts it this way. Job 32:2 Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

God does not condemn Job in chapter 42:7 .
If you are correct, then Elihu had not only reproved Job but had reproved the LORD as well. Like Elihu, you are entitled to your opinion.
 

ZNP

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And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?



And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.


If you are correct, then Elihu had not only reproved Job but had reproved the LORD as well. Like Elihu, you are entitled to your opinion.
I think if we look at the life of David we can see a nice similarity with Job.

1 Chronicles 29:28 And he died in a good old age, full of days, riches, and honour: and Solomon his son reigned in his stead.

His end was similar to Job's end. Did some of his children die? Yes, just like Job. Did he lose everything in the rebellion of Absalom? Yes, but again similar to Job.

When God told Samuel to anoint Him God told Samuel that He looks on the heart and the claim was similar to what God said about Job.

David went through all kinds of tests and trials in his life but it made him a better king, again similar to the story of Job.

David had many friends and advisors and very likely 75% of them failed in one way or another. Again just like Job. Nathan the Prophet rebuked David, just like Elihu. What was it that Nathan said -- he told him the story of how a rich man stole a poor man's lamb and ate it and David condemned the man and then Nathan said "you are the man". David was sitting in judgment over some man who stole a lamb when he had stolen a man's wife and then had that man killed. Talk about being self righteous. Likewise Elihu accused Job of being self righteous.

Did Nathan reprove the Lord when he reproved David? No. But wait, the Lord anointed David king, and Nathan reproved the king. The Lord never said David was sinless, any insinuation to that effect is stupid. The Lord said his heart was perfect and that was proven when David repented as a result of Nathan's rebuke.
 
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And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?



And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.


If you are correct, then Elihu had not only reproved Job but had reproved the LORD as well. Like Elihu, you are entitled to your opinion.
Not sure what your point is. Are you saying that a righteous man cannot turn from his righteousness?

Do you believe it is alright for a man to condemn God so that he may be righteous?