The double-standards of the preterist and why I left that system
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Yes if you also read carefully he’s actually preparing them to go through it after he leaves.
“But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
And it shall turn to you for a testimony. ( the bibles New Testament ) Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. But there shall not an hair of your head perish. In your patience possess ye your souls. And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. ( this is about the Old Testament wrath upon Jerusalem being fulfilled )
But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
Luke 21:12-24 KJV
jesus was saying it often warning everyone
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.”
Matthew 23:37-38
thier time for repentance had run out and thier desolation was about to begin
“And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, ( they rejected and killed Jesus ) but not for himself: ( he died for the people )
and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; ( rome destroyed jeruswlem and its tenoke in 70 ad)
and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”
Daniel 9:26 KJV
It’s been two thousand years almost since the temple was destroyed they have never been able to do anything required of thier covenant oreosthood ordinances and requirements for thier covenant it’s desolate now the religion they knew before Christ that needed a man made temple that was only ever a pattern for the real one
It’s understandable that people disagree about things like this there are a lot of theories taught for truth . Just my own belief I’m speaking of in what I read and consider doesn’t mean it’s right but it’s how I see it
Yes if you also read carefully he’s actually preparing them to go through it after he leaves.
“But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
And it shall turn to you for a testimony. ( the bibles New Testament ) Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. But there shall not an hair of your head perish. In your patience possess ye your souls. And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. ( this is about the Old Testament wrath upon Jerusalem being fulfilled )
But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
Luke 21:12-24 KJV
jesus was saying it often warning everyone
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.”
Matthew 23:37-38
thier time for repentance had run out and thier desolation was about to begin
“And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, ( they rejected and killed Jesus ) but not for himself: ( he died for the people )
and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; ( rome destroyed jeruswlem and its tenoke in 70 ad)
and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”
Daniel 9:26 KJV
It’s been two thousand years almost since the temple was destroyed they have never been able to do anything required of thier covenant oreosthood ordinances and requirements for thier covenant it’s desolate now the religion they knew before Christ that needed a man made temple that was only ever a pattern for the real one
It’s understandable that people disagree about things like this there are a lot of theories taught for truth . Just my own belief I’m speaking of in what I read and consider doesn’t mean it’s right but it’s how I see it
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They probably read the section and heard this part
“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:
but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
Romans 9:6-8 KJV
you are still identifying Israel. BY thier flesh God isn’t . they won’t be saved because they are descendants of Abraham or Jacob . But because they are born again in Christ A lot of folks are still looking at this earth thinking Gods kingdom is of this world
looking at the wrong place
“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.”
Colossians 3:1-2
a man can be born of israelite flesh and have no part with Israel it’s the promise that births his hiers gotta receive the spirit of Christ nonmatter the nationality
“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:
but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
Romans 9:6-8 KJV
you are still identifying Israel. BY thier flesh God isn’t . they won’t be saved because they are descendants of Abraham or Jacob . But because they are born again in Christ A lot of folks are still looking at this earth thinking Gods kingdom is of this world
looking at the wrong place
“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.”
Colossians 3:1-2
a man can be born of israelite flesh and have no part with Israel it’s the promise that births his hiers gotta receive the spirit of Christ nonmatter the nationality
Romans9:6b-8 ~ Not all who are descended from Israel are Israel... It is the children of promise who are regarded as offspring.
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:26-29 KJV
The shortly and quickly is indeed in Revelation, but what about Revelation 4:1 where John is caught up after the messages to the 7 churches, and the he is told he is being shown things that will happen after this.
If you show me a verse that says everything in the book of Revelation is supposed to happen to the 7 churches I will recant immediately right here and admit its past history.
If you show me a verse that says everything in the book of Revelation is supposed to happen to the 7 churches I will recant immediately right here and admit its past history.
My view on eschatology switches every other day because I believe all systems have flaws
I don't see [partial]-preterism as heretical and certain things are definitely past history. For example the abomination of desolation, jews fleeing to the wilderness, the messages to the 7 churches which no longer even exist and things like that are clearly history. No need to force them far out into the future in my opinion.
But some other ones, not so sure, what about the mark of the beast, when did that ever occur? Two witnesses? Man of sin? The trumpets, the bowls of wrath? Greatest earthquake ever?
These have probably not happened, and if they have, its been quite underwhelming, maybe its been coded in such symbols that are over the top that we cannot understand what they mean. The only "evidence" i could see for these being fulfilled already is the timestamps brought up. "SOON" is a relative term of course, and to God soon can be a million years. But hearing the constant guess work around the mark of the beast and all that is getting tiring tho, its really getting old fast. Maybe we just arent meant to know what it was, and the original recipients of the letter knew?
^I think the best solution to this dillemma could be that it did indeed begin to be fulfilled SOON after being written, but that it continues to be fulfilled till the last day, when the new earth is created.
I don't see [partial]-preterism as heretical and certain things are definitely past history. For example the abomination of desolation, jews fleeing to the wilderness, the messages to the 7 churches which no longer even exist and things like that are clearly history. No need to force them far out into the future in my opinion.
But some other ones, not so sure, what about the mark of the beast, when did that ever occur? Two witnesses? Man of sin? The trumpets, the bowls of wrath? Greatest earthquake ever?
These have probably not happened, and if they have, its been quite underwhelming, maybe its been coded in such symbols that are over the top that we cannot understand what they mean. The only "evidence" i could see for these being fulfilled already is the timestamps brought up. "SOON" is a relative term of course, and to God soon can be a million years. But hearing the constant guess work around the mark of the beast and all that is getting tiring tho, its really getting old fast. Maybe we just arent meant to know what it was, and the original recipients of the letter knew?
^I think the best solution to this dillemma could be that it did indeed begin to be fulfilled SOON after being written, but that it continues to be fulfilled till the last day, when the new earth is created.
How one characterizes it is of little importance. What is important is that God covenants with the nation Israel in the book of Deuteronomy, complete with stipulations and sanctions for not keeping the terms of the covenant. The book of Revelation is about the failure of Israel to keep the covenant and the consequences for not doing so. Both books have similar outlines and subject: one gives the covenant, the other tells of the impending doom for not keeping the covenant.
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The preterist tends to laugh at ideas of a rebuilt temple, they know better, it all happened in AD70, the abomination of desolation, all of it........... or did it actually?
If you read the gospels you will find out that the abomination of desolation is connected to the worst tribulation period in the history of the world:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be
This same fact is spelled out in Daniel 12:1, and just like in Daniel 12; in Matthew 24 what comes immediately after this tribulation that the abomination of desolation sets in motion is the return of Christ and the resurrection:
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
This is where the preterist double standard comes in. They will read verse 34 which says THIS GENERATION shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled, and they keep telling us this all happened. When you press them on the issue, many will either admit ok Jesus didnt return and gather the elect or will continue in the false doctrine of preterism and claim that Jesus did return, but not bodily. It is sloppy at best, but thats two returns, the same doctrine for which they critique pre-tribbers of!
The preterist plight gets worse, when you look at Revelation 12:6 and the woman (Israel) fleeing to the wilderness, which is clearly the same escape mentioned in the olivet discourse, this flight lasts 1260 days, the two witnesses prophecy 1260 days, the beast rules for 42 months. If the preterist believes all this took place in AD70, where is Jesus at? Why hasn't He returned yet? Oh you mean there would be a timegap between the 1260 days and His return? A timegap of over 2000 years now you say? Hold on, isn't that something preterists accuse premillennialists of all the time? That we are adding a gap to the 70 weeks of Daniel when no gap allegedly exists in the text?
Once I saw all these glaring faults in the preterist system I have since abandoned it in favour of a simple, yet biblical method of reading the book. Once you read in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 of a man of sin sitting in the temple of God proclaiming himself to be god, you can believe there will be a man who will sit in a temple in Jerusalem doing that, you can know by comparing it to Matthew, Revelation, Daniel, Mark. You line all the verses together and they match perfectly.
In conclusion, if you read this far: Congratulations. I have too much free time
But I wanted to type this out, who knows, this convinced me to leave preterism, maybe someone else will be inclined to leave as well.
If you read the gospels you will find out that the abomination of desolation is connected to the worst tribulation period in the history of the world:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be
This same fact is spelled out in Daniel 12:1, and just like in Daniel 12; in Matthew 24 what comes immediately after this tribulation that the abomination of desolation sets in motion is the return of Christ and the resurrection:
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
This is where the preterist double standard comes in. They will read verse 34 which says THIS GENERATION shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled, and they keep telling us this all happened. When you press them on the issue, many will either admit ok Jesus didnt return and gather the elect or will continue in the false doctrine of preterism and claim that Jesus did return, but not bodily. It is sloppy at best, but thats two returns, the same doctrine for which they critique pre-tribbers of!
The preterist plight gets worse, when you look at Revelation 12:6 and the woman (Israel) fleeing to the wilderness, which is clearly the same escape mentioned in the olivet discourse, this flight lasts 1260 days, the two witnesses prophecy 1260 days, the beast rules for 42 months. If the preterist believes all this took place in AD70, where is Jesus at? Why hasn't He returned yet? Oh you mean there would be a timegap between the 1260 days and His return? A timegap of over 2000 years now you say? Hold on, isn't that something preterists accuse premillennialists of all the time? That we are adding a gap to the 70 weeks of Daniel when no gap allegedly exists in the text?
Once I saw all these glaring faults in the preterist system I have since abandoned it in favour of a simple, yet biblical method of reading the book. Once you read in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 of a man of sin sitting in the temple of God proclaiming himself to be god, you can believe there will be a man who will sit in a temple in Jerusalem doing that, you can know by comparing it to Matthew, Revelation, Daniel, Mark. You line all the verses together and they match perfectly.
In conclusion, if you read this far: Congratulations. I have too much free time
But I wanted to type this out, who knows, this convinced me to leave preterism, maybe someone else will be inclined to leave as well.
Um, no. We are supposed to be waiting for the second coming. When He comes back, the saints are caught up with the dead in Christ to meet the Lord in the air. We are still waiting for the resurrection of the body.
We shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is. If there were no resurrection of the dead, Christ would not be risen, and your faith would be in vain. Christ was not raised as a mere metaphor.
We shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is. If there were no resurrection of the dead, Christ would not be risen, and your faith would be in vain. Christ was not raised as a mere metaphor.
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