Did God plan for man to fall to prove something to Satan and his angels?
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GOD desires to not control anyone? therefore that tree was put in place to decide, then after that, each person has the choice to choose good over evil and not mix the two as people do to this day still.
God loves us all, otherwise, there is no free choice to choose. Otherwise, Love cannot be real can it?
God loves us all, otherwise, there is no free choice to choose. Otherwise, Love cannot be real can it?
Yes. Satans trial and judgment is stamped and approved . But God is so full of Grace and mercy that an "appeal" was granted to leave NO DOUBT. The angels and men can not say, "If only....." We and the angels will be without excuse. God gave us every possible scenario and chance for His salvation.
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An example of what I spoke of can be seen with the allowance of Satan to accuse the brethren before God day and night.
When Satan accuses? The accusation to condemn is thrown out by default because of the completeness of justice satisfied
on the Cross. There is nothing can bring up to condemn any believer who fell into some sin. Even David when he committed adultery with Bathsheba, and later had Uriah, her husband, killed in battle.
When Satan condemns and demands that believers be sent to the Lake of Fire for what they have done?
What does God look to? THE CROSS!
Why doesn't God simply tell Satan to shut up then? IT's always going to get thrown out of court!
Because the very nature Satan is condemning in fallen men, he is the original father of!
He is the one! In doing so, Satan, without realizing it, is admitting that he needs the Lake of Fire!
That kind of consequences for one's confession scenario was seen with the encounter between David and the prophet Nathan!
In the end? Satan will have not one defense before the Judge!
So.... If man never fell?
God would not have that means to get the father of lies.
The denier of any reality he dislikes.
To hang himself!
I have no desire to argue this premise.
You either get it.
Or, you don't.
When Satan accuses? The accusation to condemn is thrown out by default because of the completeness of justice satisfied
on the Cross. There is nothing can bring up to condemn any believer who fell into some sin. Even David when he committed adultery with Bathsheba, and later had Uriah, her husband, killed in battle.
When Satan condemns and demands that believers be sent to the Lake of Fire for what they have done?
What does God look to? THE CROSS!
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:1-2
Why doesn't God simply tell Satan to shut up then? IT's always going to get thrown out of court!
Because the very nature Satan is condemning in fallen men, he is the original father of!
He is the one! In doing so, Satan, without realizing it, is admitting that he needs the Lake of Fire!
That kind of consequences for one's confession scenario was seen with the encounter between David and the prophet Nathan!
The Lord sent Nathan to David. When he came to him, he said, “There were two men in a certain town, one rich and the other poor. The rich man had a very large number of sheep and cattle, but the poor man had nothing except one little ewe lamb he had bought. He raised it, and it grew up with him and his children.
It shared his food, drank from his cup and even slept in his arms. It was like a daughter to him.
“Now a traveler came to the rich man, but the rich man refrained from taking one of his own sheep or cattle to prepare a meal for the traveler who had come to him. Instead, he took the ewe lamb that belonged to the poor man and prepared it for the one who had come to him.”
David burned with anger against the man and said to Nathan, “As surely as the Lord lives, the man who did this must die! He must pay for that lamb four times over, because he did such a thing and had no pity.”
Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! " 2 Samuel 12:1-7a
So, for centuries, God has been tricking Satan into becoming his own judge and executioner!In the end? Satan will have not one defense before the Judge!
So.... If man never fell?
God would not have that means to get the father of lies.
The denier of any reality he dislikes.
To hang himself!
I have no desire to argue this premise.
You either get it.
Or, you don't.
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Yes it was Gods purpose that Adam sin just as it was His purpose that pharoah would disobey His command to let His people Israel go. When God created this world it was for a soteriological purpose grounded in Christ Jesus Eph 3:9-11
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
There was no appeal offered the demons. God's full plan includes the demons being judged by those in Christ.
"Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels?"
As we (corporately) grow up into the perfect Man, Christ, we prove the demons wrong. God was just to give His Kingdom to the Son and His sons.
"Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels?"
As we (corporately) grow up into the perfect Man, Christ, we prove the demons wrong. God was just to give His Kingdom to the Son and His sons.
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What could this arrangement of Hebrew words mean.?
16:33 בַּחֵיק יוּטַל אֶת־הַגּוֹרָל וּמֵיְהוָה כָּל־מִשְׁפָּטוֹ׃
The lot is caused to be cast down into the lap, but all judgment is from the LORD.
Maybe it means that people gamble and sometimes they win, and sometimes they lose, but God does not judge according to whether they win or lose, but God judges each one according to what they do in response to their win or their loss.
Maybe it's not at all about God determining what the lot comes out as.
16:33 בַּחֵיק יוּטַל אֶת־הַגּוֹרָל וּמֵיְהוָה כָּל־מִשְׁפָּטוֹ׃
The lot is caused to be cast down into the lap, but all judgment is from the LORD.
Maybe it means that people gamble and sometimes they win, and sometimes they lose, but God does not judge according to whether they win or lose, but God judges each one according to what they do in response to their win or their loss.
Maybe it's not at all about God determining what the lot comes out as.
We all are allowed to choose, however anyone chooses. I chose good, God over evil harming anyone else ever again. God leads not me, the same as Jesus did, and has given me to do, taking nk credit for me in this done work of God for us all to do rightfully.
Unfortunately there are people that choose evil and act as if are good people, when to this day only my Father is the only one Good, even as said by Jesus in Matt. 19
Start at the source and see the love that overcame everyone in, when Son was risen from the dead for us the people to believe it , stand in it, in thanksgiving and praise and be new in love to all as is now done by Son on that cross once for us all first, new in my thought process, that has stopped trying to be right, only Father is right and loves us all y'all.
I simply trust God in his love given us in risen son, that first took away all sin in Daddy's sight first (John 1:29. John 19:30). So, we the believers, those on their way to receive God's Faith to be given them and those that have received it are safe and secure in Father and Son as Said are in Ephesians 1:1-13, can enter into the thorn, throne of grace given us to see and rest in eventually, spring out of self works, seeing it all taken away thankfully and not use it corruptively as I know in past I did that, not anymore thanking God only for it in risen Son given me to see new in from Daddy's view, not self or anyone else anymore as in Phil 3 tells me of as Paul who was Saul saw and reveals rio us the kids to be humble in thanksgiving and praise for me at least, thanks
Unfortunately there are people that choose evil and act as if are good people, when to this day only my Father is the only one Good, even as said by Jesus in Matt. 19
Start at the source and see the love that overcame everyone in, when Son was risen from the dead for us the people to believe it , stand in it, in thanksgiving and praise and be new in love to all as is now done by Son on that cross once for us all first, new in my thought process, that has stopped trying to be right, only Father is right and loves us all y'all.
I simply trust God in his love given us in risen son, that first took away all sin in Daddy's sight first (John 1:29. John 19:30). So, we the believers, those on their way to receive God's Faith to be given them and those that have received it are safe and secure in Father and Son as Said are in Ephesians 1:1-13, can enter into the thorn, throne of grace given us to see and rest in eventually, spring out of self works, seeing it all taken away thankfully and not use it corruptively as I know in past I did that, not anymore thanking God only for it in risen Son given me to see new in from Daddy's view, not self or anyone else anymore as in Phil 3 tells me of as Paul who was Saul saw and reveals rio us the kids to be humble in thanksgiving and praise for me at least, thanks
The demons and fallen angels are all in an appeal trial at this time(they are not in the LoF. )They have all been rightly judged and will end up in the LoF.
We PROVE to them that God IS/WAS fair and Just in their judgement. All believers put the final nails in their coffins.
It seems to me we are saying the same thing?
We PROVE to them that God IS/WAS fair and Just in their judgement. All believers put the final nails in their coffins.
It seems to me we are saying the same thing?
I think we're really close to saying the same thing.
Demons have not been arrested only curtailed in that they have no power over Christ. In Christ's power and with His permission, we (His body) can certainly bind them for their day of judgement.
Notice how, in Genesis, God did not question the serpent but He did question Adam and Woman:
And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.
Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?”
And a bit later:
And the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
Immediately after, God pronounced judgment upon the serpent w/o giving him a chance to appeal:
So the Lord God said to the serpent:
“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle...
Judgement will come in the end. Currently the demons stand condemned with no hope of reprieve.
Demons have not been arrested only curtailed in that they have no power over Christ. In Christ's power and with His permission, we (His body) can certainly bind them for their day of judgement.
Notice how, in Genesis, God did not question the serpent but He did question Adam and Woman:
And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.
Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?”
And a bit later:
And the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
Immediately after, God pronounced judgment upon the serpent w/o giving him a chance to appeal:
So the Lord God said to the serpent:
“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle...
Judgement will come in the end. Currently the demons stand condemned with no hope of reprieve.
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I would just rephrase that a little bit differently.....
It was not God's purpose that Adam sin.
God was knowing Adam would sin, that became His purpose.
God did not create Adam to sin.
That can of worms would make God the author of sin.
God created Adam, knowing Adam could sin freely. Not created that he would sin.
The key to resolving this issue is seeing how God was able to create man without knowing how man would choose, but knowing full well that man would be free to choose.
The key to this paradox is understanding the unique capacity of the Son to deny himself the function of being as God, as showcased to us by means of God making Himself be as a man in Jesus. Knowing that about Jesus holds the key to the mystery.
The key is?
All things had to be created THROUGH Christ.
Created THROUGH Christ while he was denying himself of his right to omniscience!
Just as He made himself to be when born of Mary.
It settles the storm once this can be seen and understood.
grace and peace ..........
It was not God's purpose that Adam sin.
God was knowing Adam would sin, that became His purpose.
God did not create Adam to sin.
That can of worms would make God the author of sin.
God created Adam, knowing Adam could sin freely. Not created that he would sin.
The key to resolving this issue is seeing how God was able to create man without knowing how man would choose, but knowing full well that man would be free to choose.
The key to this paradox is understanding the unique capacity of the Son to deny himself the function of being as God, as showcased to us by means of God making Himself be as a man in Jesus. Knowing that about Jesus holds the key to the mystery.
The key is?
All things had to be created THROUGH Christ.
Created THROUGH Christ while he was denying himself of his right to omniscience!
Just as He made himself to be when born of Mary.
It settles the storm once this can be seen and understood.
grace and peace ..........
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Ephesians explains that before the foundation of the earth Jesus was predestined to be our Savior. So for that to happen would require man to need a Savior. By simple deduction I can easily conclude that God's ultimate plan included having the fall of mankind so God could present Himself as one of us in order to save us.
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