At what point in our salvation is the blood of Christ applied?

[studier]

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If I actually believe this what will I do ?

My answer will likely always be the same because I see actual belief as Faith/Obedience. There is an option to disobey but that by necessity thus means unbelief.

Faith-Obedience is further defined and explained as abiding, enduring, etc...

Jesus handled the farce succinctly: Luke6:46.

We can just consider this verse at every decision we must make.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Repent = prescriptive.

Lol . it’s what Gods son said about perishing though regardless of any label I want to apply to it right ? Jesus the Lord did say in the gospel correct ?

also what Paul said here in different words to the church at rome

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When we receive the spirit we then need to choose the spirit over our flesh …..yi or ourselves to God which brings life rather than yielding ourselves to sin that brings death

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, ( that’s our choice )

his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

brother repentance is half of the matter remission of sins is the other half

“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

proscriptive prescriptive post scripture this scriptibe ect ….. it’s all scripture we’re supposed to hear and believe it’s true …..that’s what leads us to act in faith but we always invent reasons not to believe it .. to reason and explain why we shouldn’t believe it

everyone needs to repent we should believe we need to repent because that is what leads to us repenting

God is waiting patiently giving us all a chance

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He came innorder to call sinners …. To repentance and life

“But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭9:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭

He doesn’t want that for us

not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

so he came to preach repentance and remission of sins

“repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”


When we hear what he’s saying we should let it be important and true it will always lead us n the right direction towards our Father in heaven which Jesus speaks about throughout the gospel

there’s no reason to create labels and levels and everything is what I mean it sort of me realizes and intellectualizes it but believing what we are able to hear

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Is it at the point of faith?

Absolutely. religions that are satanically bases try to ADD WORKS, or religious ceremonies / 0bservances / etc. to the formula.

In FACT, when a person is CONVICTED OF SIN (Rom 10:17) BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, and subsequently REPENTS in faith, AND CALLS OUT TO GOD, THEN THEIR SALVATION IS complete, their SIN is cleansed, and they are indwelled by the Holy SPirit, making them Born Again Christians. THEN their process of "SANCTIFICATION" (maturing in the FAITH - Romans 8:28,29) begins.

 

[studier]

Lol . it’s what Gods son said about perishing though regardless of any label I want to apply to it right ? Jesus the Lord did say in the gospel correct ?

I agreed with him re: prescriptive, but your point is well taken. Debating the labels can be a side-show.

 

[Cameron143]

Nonsense. With volition we are choosing at every instance to do or to reject the leading and guiding of the Spirit and remaining in the Faith-Obedience of our Lord who is in us. This is the prescriptive reality of commands and warnings. It's why we are commanded not to grieve and suppress/extinguish the Spirit. This cooperative relationship must be guarded and protected, and we are commanded to do our part and to help one another do the same. Under grace we are commanded and assisted. That's why Paul warned about departing from grace. Apart from Him we can do nothing. We're commanded to not be apart from Him.

First, we cannot be separated from Him.
Second, you cannot on one hand say it is our volition, and then we are assisted. The 2 are incongruent.
I live...awesome
But not I...what
Christ lives in me...oh
The life I now live in the flesh I live BY the faith of the Son of God.

Have you ever literally been yoked to someone or something? If you were yoked to an ox, you would discover some things rather quickly. First, you couldn't take the ox in any direction it doesn't want to go. Second, you are no longer your own. You have been bought with a price. God has staked a claim on your life. God will have His way in your life. This was part of Paul's emphasis in Philippians 2:13 and Romans 8:29. God will conform a believer into the image of Christ. Third, dead people have no volition. While life in Christ is a moment by moment communion with Jesus, the emphasis is not on a series of continuous choices to remain in sync. If you've ever gone to an amusement park, you don't stop after each ride to consider if you rode the ride correctly. You simply move to the next ride with those you are with and simply enjoy each experience and the enjoyed fellowship. The believer is dead to sin and alive to Christ.

From your posts it seems to me your relationship with God consists in trying to be obedient. In doing so you place yourself back under the law, negating the freedom Christ has bought for you wherein you can simply enjoy the relationship you have with God. It reminds me of the C S Lewis quote that says that Christians spend their time playing with mud pies in the dirt, not knowing that God is offering a vacation at the beach.

 

[Cameron143]

So, we have the choice, but failure is not really failure and chastisement always results in repentance. IOW, we can't walk away and can only lose rewards, or some similar theory. But ultimately the trophy and mansions for all.

If you have an explanation for Romans 8:39 that demonstrates how one can be separated from the love of God in Christ, I'll listen, but make sure you include exactly what would allow for the separation and double check it is not on the list.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

My answer will likely always be the same because I see actual belief as Faith/Obedience. There is an option to disobey but that by necessity thus means unbelief.

Faith-Obedience is further defined and explained as abiding, enduring, etc...

Jesus handled the farce succinctly: Luke6:46.

We can just consider this verse at every decision we must make.

Mmhm but what im saying is

if I hear it and accept it as the truth and believe it

and if I Hear it and reject it and co Clyde tbat doesn’t apply to me

Each path will lead to dofferent actions based upon what I heard and believed or heard and rejected

if I don’t first hear Gods word I can’t have faith

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭

and I also could never learn that he clearly teaches us that we need to repent and walk in his ways keeping his ways that he taught in those words

First has to come the proper seed in the heart then later the proper fruit can be borne

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If you have an explanation for Romans 8:39 that demonstrates how one can be separated from the love of God in Christ, I'll listen, but make sure you include exactly what would allow for the separation and double check it is not on the list.

is someone who rejects God , doing it because God doesn’t love them ? Or because they don’t love him ?

 

[Cameron143]

is someone who rejects God , doing it because God doesn’t love them ? Or because they don’t love him ?

Are we talking about the natural man or a saved individual?
Either way, the individual is walking after the flesh.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I agreed with him re: prescriptive, but your point is well taken. Debating the labels can be a side-show.

Yes that’s all I was trying to get at . I would say a distraction that also tends to be done for a reason “this group of things plies to you and is required “ this other group of things aren’t required “ or something not saying that’s this situation but but some reasoning is behind dividing into differing labels and groups is my point

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Are we talking about the natural man or a saved individual?
Either way, the individual is walking after the flesh.

i dont think you realize what walking after the flesh means brother

 

[Cameron143]

i dont think you realize what walking after the flesh means brother

You're free to explain it.

 

[mailmandan]

Lol . it’s what Gods son said about perishing though regardless of any label I want to apply to it right ? Jesus the Lord did say in the gospel correct ?

also what Paul said here in different words to the church at rome

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When we receive the spirit we then need to choose the spirit over our flesh …..yi or ourselves to God which brings life rather than yielding ourselves to sin that brings death

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, ( that’s our choice )

his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

brother repentance is half of the matter remission of sins is the other half

“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

proscriptive prescriptive post scripture this scriptibe ect ….. it’s all scripture we’re supposed to hear and believe it’s true …..that’s what leads us to act in faith but we always invent reasons not to believe it .. to reason and explain why we shouldn’t believe it

everyone needs to repent we should believe we need to repent because that is what leads to us repenting

God is waiting patiently giving us all a chance

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He came innorder to call sinners …. To repentance and life

“But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭9:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭

He doesn’t want that for us

not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

so he came to preach repentance and remission of sins

“repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”

When we hear what he’s saying we should let it be important and true it will always lead us n the right direction towards our Father in heaven which Jesus speaks about throughout the gospel

there’s no reason to create labels and levels and everything is what I mean it sort of me realizes and intellectualizes it but believing what we are able to hear

If we don't repent (change our mind) then we will not believe the gospel/place our faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and become saved. (Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21)

In regard to walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh in Romans 8, Paul sets up a CONTRAST between those who live according to the flesh (unbelievers/false brethren) and those who live according to the Spirit (believers). In verses 8-9, Paul clearly states - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. See the contrast?

Walking according to the Spirit is 'descriptive' of children of God. Those who are habitually dominated by the sinful nature (unbelievers) put their minds on the things of the sinful nature, but those who are habitually dominated by the Spirit (believers) put their minds on the things of the Spirit. If a person’s intent is to live according to the flesh, it’s an indication that he is not saved. Yet if a person, by the Spirit is putting to death the deeds of the body, it's an indication he is saved.

In regard to Romans 6:16, works-salvationists typically ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" and simply stress "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience which "follow saving faith in Christ" are "unto righteousness," as if we are saved by works. Unbelievers are not slaves of obedience unto righteousness no matter how much so-called obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works. (Matthew 7:22-23)

There is a contrast here between servants/slaves. There are only two kinds of servants/slaves in this world, in the spiritual sense: servants/slaves of sin unto death, or servants/slaves of obedience unto righteousness. When we place our faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation, we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness."

Being slaves of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness."

Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..

Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not his works) is accounted for righteousness.

 

[mailmandan]

Which category would be easier for you to list - IOW which category contains less? Care to list one or 2 commands for discussion?

Prescriptive- (John 3:18; Acts 10:43; Romans 1:16; Ephesians 2:8,9)

Descriptive - (1 John 2:3, 9-11; 1 John 3:7-10; 1 John 4:7-8)

 

[Blade]

Christ's blood has already been applied to the entire human race. The question is when does it become real for someone; and when do they receive it. When someone hears a clear presentation of the gospel, and the Holy Spirit reveals the truth to them, and they believe; that's where it starts. But that's just the beginning.

Thank you Father.. you really blessed me mate thanks RA

 

[studier]

First, we cannot be separated from Him.

Then we have no volition, His commands and warnings are all fluff. and all conditional clauses - if...then - relevant to the topic are meaningless.

Second, you cannot on one hand say it is our volition, and then we are assisted. The 2 are incongruent.

Phil2:12-13 for example says otherwise and you misunderstand Grace.

I live...awesome
But not I...what
Christ lives in me...oh
The life I now live in the flesh I live BY the faith of the Son of God.

You say living by volition and being assisted are incongruent, then you reference Scripture that describes living by volition and being assisted.

And this just before Paul calls them fools/stupid for having begun [in/by] Spirit and wanting to walk away and be perfected/completed [in/by] flesh.

Have you ever literally been yoked to someone or something? If you were yoked to an ox, you would discover some things rather quickly. First, you couldn't take the ox in any direction it doesn't want to go. Second, you are no longer your own. You have been bought with a price. God has staked a claim on your life. God will have His way in your life. This was part of Paul's emphasis in Philippians 2:13 and Romans 8:29. God will conform a believer into the image of Christ. Third, dead people have no volition. While life in Christ is a moment by moment communion with Jesus, the emphasis is not on a series of continuous choices to remain in sync. If you've ever gone to an amusement park, you don't stop after each ride to consider if you rode the ride correctly. You simply move to the next ride with those you are with and simply enjoy each experience and the enjoyed fellowship. The believer is dead to sin and alive to Christ.

So, the metaphorical yoke Jesus told men to put on and learn from Him - which is language of discipleship and following a Rabbi - is now something we're stuck in and can't remove or walk away from. Yet we have record of disciples doing just that. And the command to not be yoked together with unbelievers means to not put a piece of wood around our mutual necks that we can't remove.

The bought with a price and not your own is in the context of a command to flee/avoid sin. It's giving us spiritual reasoning of what's been done for us to assist us in considering how we live. This is more volition being trained under Grace, because of the value God places on volition.

I've mentioned Phil2:12-13. IMO it's one of the best pieces of Scripture to help us understand our cooperative union with God. Paul praises obedience, commands more obedience, states the believer's proper Fear of God, and explains what God is doing in the Christian to assist and build his will and work.

I have no interest in discussing any concept related to Calvinistic concepts of corpses that have no volition. It's just absurdity.

Re: your amusement park ride, good for you. Once again commands, and conditional clauses in His Word. are meaningless. Let's look at the way you build on this life is an amusement park concept:

From your posts it seems to me your relationship with God consists in trying to be obedient. In doing so you place yourself back under the law, negating the freedom Christ has bought for you wherein you can simply enjoy the relationship you have with God. It reminds me of the C S Lewis quote that says that Christians spend their time playing with mud pies in the dirt, not knowing that God is offering a vacation at the beach.

“It would seem that Our Lord finds our desires not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory, and Other Addresses

As you do with Scripture, you also do with Lewis and misunderstand or create your own context.

Rom8:29 is speaking of God's predetermined plan. It has in context a few of those conditional clauses explained away by concepts you espouse:

NKJ Rom8:16-17 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs-- heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

NKJ Rom8:25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance endurance.

Note the endurance. This is long term abiding and enduring as commanded. And joint-heirship with Christ assuming we suffer with Him.

You can go back in context and read the differences between the walk in Spirit and walk in flesh. Make sure you look at Rom8:13 and pay attention to the "IF" clause there in regard to life or death.

I understand being under Grace vs. being under Law. I don't think you do.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If we don't repent (change our mind) then we will not believe the gospel/place our faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and become saved. (Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21)

In regard to walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh in Romans 8, Paul sets up a CONTRAST between those who live according to the flesh (unbelievers/false brethren) and those who live according to the Spirit (believers). In verses 8-9, Paul clearly states - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. See the contrast?

Walking according to the Spirit is 'descriptive' of children of God. Those who are habitually dominated by the sinful nature (unbelievers) put their minds on the things of the sinful nature, but those who are habitually dominated by the Spirit (believers) put their minds on the things of the Spirit. If a person’s intent is to live according to the flesh, it’s an indication that he is not saved. Yet if a person, by the Spirit is putting to death the deeds of the body, it's an indication he is saved.

In regard to Romans 6:16, works-salvationists typically ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" and simply stress "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience which "follow saving faith in Christ" are "unto righteousness," as if we are saved by works. Unbelievers are not slaves of obedience unto righteousness no matter how much so-called obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works. (Matthew 7:22-23)

There is a contrast here between servants/slaves. There are only two kinds of servants/slaves in this world, in the spiritual sense: servants/slaves of sin unto death, or servants/slaves of obedience unto righteousness. When we place our faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation, we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness."

Being slaves of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness."

Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..

Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not his works) is accounted for righteousness.

“If we don't repent (change our mind) then we will not believe the gospel/place our faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and become saved.”

Should we change our mind to the things Jesus taught ? Or should we change our minds away from the things he taught ?

For instance

“For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; and hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:26-29‬ ‭

Should we reject this and change it to another thing ?

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If this is actually true then repentance and remission of sins makes perfect sense .

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Your right our minds need to change from what we think to what Jesus and his apostles taught but not selectively plucking single verses from thier king context by just learning what it is they all taught

repenting of sinful actions is something everyone of them taught it begins when we start letting our minds change from “ I don’t need to do anything I’m already saved because I’m a chosen one “ over to “ there is no respect of persons with God everyone will be judged according to Christs word and what they have done in respect to it. “


Then we can start accepting how light his burden is once I acknolwedge “ yes I need to listen to Jesus and believe what he said about judgement and salvation , forgivness , judging other people , condemning other people ect things like this

“But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:35-38, 46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

let what jesus is saying there sink in for a moment and you’ll hear this

“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness,

and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Accepting our part of doing what he said we need to do brother is a part of what our minds need to change to from sin is no big deal to I need to get my act together is part of Christianity

 

[studier]

If you have an explanation for Romans 8:39 that demonstrates how one can be separated from the love of God in Christ, I'll listen, but make sure you include exactly what would allow for the separation and double check it is not on the list.

I'll let you start with @Pilgrimshope:

is someone who rejects God , doing it because God doesn’t love them ? Or because they don’t love him ?

 

[Cameron143]

Then we have no volition, His commands and warnings are all fluff. and all conditional clauses - if...then - relevant to the topic are meaningless.



Phil2:12-13 for example says otherwise and you misunderstand Grace.



You say living by volition and being assisted are incongruent, then you reference Scripture that describes living by volition and being assisted.

And this just before Paul calls them fools/stupid for having begun [in/by] Spirit and wanting to walk away and be perfected/completed [in/by] flesh.



So, the metaphorical yoke Jesus told men to put on and learn from Him - which is language of discipleship and following a Rabbi - is now something we're stuck in and can't remove or walk away from. Yet we have record of disciples doing just that. And the command to not be yoked together with unbelievers means to not put a piece of wood around our mutual necks that we can't remove.

The bought with a price and not your own is in the context of a command to flee/avoid sin. It's giving us spiritual reasoning of what's been done for us to assist us in considering how we live. This is more volition being trained under Grace, because of the value God places on volition.

I've mentioned Phil2:12-13. IMO it's one of the best pieces of Scripture to help us understand our cooperative union with God. Paul praises obedience, commands more obedience, states the believer's proper Fear of God, and explains what God is doing in the Christian to assist and build his will and work.

I have no interest in discussing any concept related to Calvinistic concepts of corpses that have no volition. It's just absurdity.

Re: your amusement park ride, good for you. Once again commands, and conditional clauses in His Word. are meaningless. Let's look at the way you build on this life is an amusement park concept:



“It would seem that Our Lord finds our desires not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory, and Other Addresses

As you do with Scripture, you also do with Lewis and misunderstand or create your own context.

Rom8:29 is speaking of God's predetermined plan. It has in context a few of those conditional clauses explained away by concepts you espouse:

NKJ Rom8:16-17 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs-- heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

NKJ Rom8:25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance endurance.

Note the endurance. This is long term abiding and enduring as commanded. And joint-heirship with Christ assuming we suffer with Him.

You can go back in context and read the differences between the walk in Spirit and walk in flesh. Make sure you look at Rom8:13 and pay attention to the "IF" clause there in regard to life or death.

I understand being under Grace vs. being under Law. I don't think you do.

I'm afraid you do not understand grace. You believe it is meted out in response to our actions rather than sovereignly by God in response to our need.
The rest I have addressed and believe you are incorrect at every instance.
I do thank you for the discussion. Grace and peace.

 

[studier]

Prescriptive- (John 3:18; Acts 10:43; Romans 1:16; Ephesians 2:8,9)

Descriptive - (1 John 2:3, 9-11; 1 John 3:7-10; 1 John 4:7-8)

Thanks.

I made certain to state and I think repeat a few times that I'm speaking of commands being prescriptive or descriptive. Out of these 8 sections of Scripture you listed, there are 2 commands, and you've identified them both of them as being Descriptive.

So, first, what exactly do you mean re: Prescriptive and by Descriptive?

When you answer, please explain why the following commands are Descriptive:

• NKJ 1 John3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
• NKJ 1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.