Understanding God’s election

[lrs68]

Prove that Peter is quoting from books! Since you're waxing as a bible scholar and make the claim, you surely must have those passages at your finger tips. Also, even if he did quote from other books, we must understand PETER'S book or epistle on HIS terms, since he's the writer, so whatever he wrote must be understood in the context of the epistle itself. Therefore, "you" is referring to his original audience -- AND since his original audience were believers, then all of what Peter wrote extends to all other believers.

They say the same thing and Ezekiel and 2 Peter are really close to being the same verse.

Ezekiel
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Sovereign Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and live.


2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

 

[lrs68]

^

LOL
A carbon copy of two verses saying the same thing and someone claiming to be a Christian disagrees with God.

Imagine that

 

[rogerg]

^

LOL
A carbon copy of two verses saying the same thing and someone claiming to be a Christian disagrees with God.

Imagine that

Not disagreeing with God, disagreeing with you and your interpretation. Guess that means you are not aware of the two totally different and independent covenants each was associated to. Doesn't say much for your biblical knowledge or understanding. You'll do a lot better when (and if) you are able differentiate between them.

 

[lrs68]

Not disagreeing with God, disagreeing with you and your interpretation. Guess that means you are not aware of the two totally different and independent covenants each was associated to. Doesn't say much for your biblical knowledge or understanding. You'll do a lot better when (and if) you are able differentiate between them.

Those verses both say [not wanting anyone to die\perish] and [but wanting them to repent].

So how do they mean 2 different things when they say the same thing and Peter is quoting the Old Testament verse?

 

[rogerg]

Those verses both say [not wanting anyone to die\perish] and [but wanting them to repent].

So how do they mean 2 different things when they say the same thing and Peter is quoting the Old Testament verse?

Because they were stipulated under the auspices of two completely different covenants: the Old Covenant as opposed to the New Covenant. The Old Covenant was earthly and dependent upon a person's actions and choices; the New Covenant is eternal, based solely upon God, His actions and His choices, not man's. When God tells us that He is not willing that any should perish, He is saying that relative to the New Covenant, not the Old Covenant - that He is guaranteeing outcome for His "beloved" - not willing that any of them should perish. To come to repentance is to is to trust in Christ as Savior - God's work, not man's

 

[Magenta]

Hebrews 8 verses 8-13

 

[Rufus]

The jews thought they were so special because of the law. Heck they even thought Peter stood at the gates of hades to prevent any jew from entering. I see the same parelles here. Christians call themselves the elect which they are and then consider themselves so special. Jesus only died for us. Not you not anyone but us. That line of thinking is the same stumbling block the jews stumbled at. Let no man think more of himself than what he's is. God's words are directed at anyone who picks up the Bible and wants to take that journey as much as they are for the people on that journey.

So, Peter, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit erred when he called his brothers and sisters in the Lord "elect"?

 

[studier]

So, Peter used the second person pronoun "you" in referring to himself? Have you gone mad!? Maybe you should consult with the Wizard and get his take...

The Wizard says you're misinterpreting @GWH.

Here's the chain I see:

Because many here cannot agree even on the definition of grace. One person defined grace as God's "patience", making God totally a passive spectator in man's salvation.

Here's the response. Follow and compare the bold text:

That person was Peter (2Pet. 3:9).

So, Peter purportedly defined grace as God's patience in 2Pet3:9

Then this:

So, Peter used the second person pronoun "you" in referring to himself? Have you gone mad!? Maybe you should consult with the Wizard and get his take...

No, Peter purportedly said re: grace & patience NKJ 2Pet3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Conclusion:

@GWH said Peter in 2Pet3:9 defined grace as God's patience and @Rufus with his usual provocative language turned this into an argument about a personal pronoun, which BTW in some manuscripts is first-person plural (see NKJ above) and in others it's second-person plural, which it seems we're arguing about.

FWIW, none of these documents is really addressed to us, but we're certainly of the mindset that much of them are applicable to us. If not, then we're wasting our lives here.

 

[Rufus]

I know that once you are truly saved you are called the elect I get the idea. I'm saying the you is directed at anyone who reads it. If some random guy walks into a second hand store picks up a Bible and decides to read though it and give it a shot. Then the you is directed at him just as much as it is me. For the on the fence half believer it is hey this could be you for me it means this is you.

"A "half believer" is a foreign concept in scripture. One is either lost or he is found! This is like saying that a woman is only a little bit pregnant!

 

[Magenta]

So, Peter, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit erred when he called his brothers and sisters in the Lord "elect"?

From 1 Peter 1 verses 3-5 ~ The elect are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by His blood. By His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[rogerg]

From 1 Peter 1 verses 3-5 ~ The elect are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by His blood. By His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Amen

 

[Magenta]

"A "half believer" is a foreign concept in scripture. One is either lost or he is found! This is like saying that a woman is only a little bit pregnant!

Perhaps he means someone who has been called but is slow in their response... being so greatly entangled in the world.

 

[Rufus]

The Wizard says you're misinterpreting @GWH.

Here's the chain I see:



Here's the response. Follow and compare the bold text:



So, Peter purportedly defined grace as God's patience in 2Pet3:9

Then this:



No, Peter purportedly said re: grace & patience NKJ 2Pet3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Conclusion:

@GWH said Peter in 2Pet3:9 defined grace as God's patience and @Rufus with his usual provocative language turned this into an argument about a personal pronoun, which BTW in some manuscripts is first-person plural (see NKJ above) and in others it's second-person plural, which it seems we're arguing about.

FWIW, none of these documents is really addressed to us, but we're certainly of the mindset that much of them are applicable to us. If not, then we're wasting our lives here.

Well then...the "us" pronoun makes things even more interesting since people think Peter was addressing the world. I had no idea Peter was a worldly wise man and that he lumped himself in with the ungodly, God-hating world.

God's patience is certainly gracious, but it's also passive! Grace in the bible is most often portrayed in proactive terms since it also denotes God's power.

 

[Jackson129]

So, Peter, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit erred when he called his brothers and sisters in the Lord "elect"?

I clearly stated more than once Christians are the elect. It you who thinks God's word are only for the elect. They are for anyone who wants to pick up the book and read.

 

[Rufus]

The jews thought they were so special because of the law. Heck they even thought Peter stood at the gates of hades to prevent any jew from entering. I see the same parelles here. Christians call themselves the elect which they are and then consider themselves so special. Jesus only died for us. Not you not anyone but us. That line of thinking is the same stumbling block the jews stumbled at. Let no man think more of himself than what he's is. God's words are directed at anyone who picks up the Bible and wants to take that journey as much as they are for the people on that journey.

The Jews were indeed very special! They were so special and so unique in the world that neither God or his chosen people ever considered themselves to be part of the world!

 

[Magenta]

Well then...the "us" pronoun makes things even more interesting since people think Peter was addressing the world. I had no idea Peter was a worldly wise man and that he lumped himself in with the ungodly, God-hating world.

God's patience is certainly gracious, but it's also passive! Grace in the bible is most often portrayed in proactive terms since it also denotes God's power.

my grace is sufficient for you

 

[studier]

Well then...the "us" pronoun makes things even more interesting since people think Peter was addressing the world. I had no idea Peter was a worldly wise man and that he lumped himself in with the ungodly, God-hating world.

God's patience is certainly gracious, but it's also passive! Grace in the bible is most often portrayed in proactive terms since it also denotes God's power.

And as usual without skipping a beat you ignore your error and revel in the controversy.

 

[Jackson129]

"A "half believer" is a foreign concept in scripture. One is either lost or he is found! This is like saying that a woman is only a little bit pregnant!

Apparently you never met someone on the fence about having faith in God. Some people just instantly have faith when they hear some people it takes time to grow in them. Are you trying to say God's word dosent apply to those who it is still growing in. Because only the elect can read and learn and receive it?

 

[studier]

Apparently you never met someone on the fence about having faith in God. Some people just instantly have faith when they hear some people it takes time to grow in them. Are you trying to say God's word dosent apply to those who it is still growing in. Because only the elect can read and learn and receive it?

It's good you catch on quickly. He's a walking TULIP.

 

[Magenta]

Apparently you never met someone on the fence about having faith in God. Some people just instantly have faith when they hear some people it takes time to grow in them. Are you trying to say God's word dosent apply to those who it is still growing in. Because only the elect can read and learn and receive it?

Romans 11 verse 32 God has consigned everyone to disobedience so that He may have mercy on all.