Understanding God’s election
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The question should be since Esau's grandfather was Abraham and his dad was Isaac which means he knew who God was... DID ESAU LOVE GOD?
Because God would have been easier on Esau if Esau actually loved God and tried to obey, listen, worship God. But rather he went after the types of women his dad warned him about and he would have broken All of the Commandments about honoring your parents had they existed.
Because God would have been easier on Esau if Esau actually loved God and tried to obey, listen, worship God. But rather he went after the types of women his dad warned him about and he would have broken All of the Commandments about honoring your parents had they existed.
This is where it gets tricky. I do belive we have free will to go down that path or not. We do however only have that choice and the ability to choose which path by the grace of God. God's grace is the deciding factor without it we could not have faith. but I do not like taking free will out of the equation. Not because I want to say I did it myself that is not the case God did it for me. But because God gave us free will so we could exercise it in our decisions. Otherwise how would you ever learn?
The problem is the will is only set free by Jesus, so any discussion about that has to be in light of not what the
natural man can do because Scripture is pretty clear in that regard = about who that person is and what choices
they make and are capable of making, although given what many say here, you would never know it. As a relative
newcomer to this thread you might be shocked at some of the things said here, especially by those who trumpet
the so-called "free will" of man, because they seem especially opposed to God's sovereignty. We have even been
told that God is unfair if He reveals Himself in a way that is not exactly the same to how He reveals Himself to
another despite the Bible being full of such instances... and in fact God revealing Himself to people personally
is outright mocked and scoffed, despite it being a Scriptural truth that God draws people with loving kindness
(which is very personal) and the fact that it is the Holy Spirit of God Who reveals the truth to us about Jesus.
"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.
natural man can do because Scripture is pretty clear in that regard = about who that person is and what choices
they make and are capable of making, although given what many say here, you would never know it. As a relative
newcomer to this thread you might be shocked at some of the things said here, especially by those who trumpet
the so-called "free will" of man, because they seem especially opposed to God's sovereignty. We have even been
told that God is unfair if He reveals Himself in a way that is not exactly the same to how He reveals Himself to
another despite the Bible being full of such instances... and in fact God revealing Himself to people personally
is outright mocked and scoffed, despite it being a Scriptural truth that God draws people with loving kindness
(which is very personal) and the fact that it is the Holy Spirit of God Who reveals the truth to us about Jesus.
"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.
Let me guess if I say yes your gonna come at me with the "for Jacob I have loved and esau I have hated" while ignoring the fact the they spoke differently 4000 years ago. For instance if a man had 2 wives one had 4 sons the other was barren it was said God loved one and hated the other. Or if a father gave a bigger inheritance to one son or the other it was said he loved one and hated the other. That didn't mean he hated his one son so much he was gonna club him and feed him to the birds or something. Its just an idiom used to describe an unequal situation 4k years ago.
"Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." Jesus' words, John 3 verse 3 If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Romans 8 verse 9 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything. What counts is a new creation. Galatians 6 verse 15 The spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 1 Corinthians 15 verse 46
Philippians 3 verse 3; Colossians 2 verse 11; Romans 2 verse 29b ~ For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh. You were also circumcised, in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands. Circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.
Romans 8 verse 7a, Galatians 5 verse 17, John 1 verse 5, John 14 verse 17 ~ The mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. The flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. Darkness does not comprehend the Light. The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.
God is the same, but His covenants aren't- and most assuredly - there are two different covenants. God, as a part of His New Covenant, gives repentance as a free gift (a full belief/trust/faith in Jesus as the Savior, leaving behind our trust in our dead works), but only to those whom He places under that new covenant - it is all of God, nothing of ourselves.
[2Ti 2:25 KJV]
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
[Heb 6:1 KJV]
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[2Ti 2:25 KJV]
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
[Heb 6:1 KJV]
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
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I'm not saying that God doesn't speak to the unsaved through his scriptures. All I'm saying is that Peter's original audience in both his letters were NOT addressed to the unsaved but to BELIEVERS! And, THEREFORE, the content of those epistles can only rightfully be understood in the context of that particular audience.
So, now I ask you: What content in 2Pet 2 prompted Peter to write to Jewish believers that God is patient toward them and not willing that any of them perish but that all of them come to repentance? Why would Peter write such a weighty and sobering exhortation? Do you think you can discover why by actually reading the epistle without your presuppositions?
Translate: You obviously have NO idea why Peter told the ELECT what he did in 2Pet 3:9. It's no wonder at all, since CONTEXTUAL considerations, evidently, play little or no role in your hermeneutics. You relish the freedom to pervert the text anyway you want.
So, now I ask you: What content in 2Pet 2 prompted Peter to write to Jewish believers that God is patient toward them and not willing that any of them perish but that all of them come to repentance? Why would Peter write such a weighty and sobering exhortation? Do you think you can discover why by actually reading the epistle without your presuppositions?
Translate: You obviously have NO idea why Peter told the ELECT what he did in 2Pet 3:9. It's no wonder at all, since CONTEXTUAL considerations, evidently, play little or no role in your hermeneutics. You relish the freedom to pervert the text anyway you want.
No, it has everything to do with the covenants. It is according to the respective covenant that men either live or die eternally. The covenants are the revelation of "how God is".
[Eze 20:24-25 KJV]
24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.
25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes [that were] not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;
[Heb 8:9-12 KJV]
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
[Eze 20:24-25 KJV]
24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.
25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes [that were] not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;
[Heb 8:9-12 KJV]
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
You yourself admit that God never changes. Why would He, He is perfect! But yet, you are arguing that He loves everyone and wishes that all would repent. If that were so, there would be no need for punishment of any kind!
Go back to the OC where He proclaims “Esau I hated”. He stated this prior to his birth. Why then could the same not be true today, in the NC? He does not love everyone, He loves the people of His choosing.
Man, when he reads that story must wonder why He chose Jacob. He was a real scoundrel. He took both his brother's birthright and his blessing. Perhaps it is to teach us that all things belong to Him. Jeremiah 18:5-6
God only knows the answer to this question.
Go back to the OC where He proclaims “Esau I hated”. He stated this prior to his birth. Why then could the same not be true today, in the NC? He does not love everyone, He loves the people of His choosing.
Man, when he reads that story must wonder why He chose Jacob. He was a real scoundrel. He took both his brother's birthright and his blessing. Perhaps it is to teach us that all things belong to Him. Jeremiah 18:5-6
God only knows the answer to this question.
