Hermeneutics: Interpreting Scripture
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We can harmonize 1John 2:19, which refers to pseudo-Christians whose profession of faith in Jesus as Lord were insincere so that they were never saved,
with
1Iohn 2:24, which indicates that genuine Christians may/will NOT "see" the Gospel remains in them so they will remain in the Son,
thusly:
Both false conversion and repudiation of genuine conversion aka apostasy are possibilities.
Are we ready for a fourth couplet?
with
1Iohn 2:24, which indicates that genuine Christians may/will NOT "see" the Gospel remains in them so they will remain in the Son,
thusly:
Both false conversion and repudiation of genuine conversion aka apostasy are possibilities.
Are we ready for a fourth couplet?
Review:
Couplet #1
Romans 8:38-39, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life… nor anything else in all creation,
will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (versus)
Hebrews 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”
(Harmonization) “anything else” in Rom. 38-39 may refer to powers other than the saint "deliberately" or intentionally sinning by repudiating his/her saving faith.
Couplet #2
1John 2:19-20 & 27: "They [antichrists] went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth." (versus)
1John 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”
(harmonization) if those who have the HS do not see that it/the Gospel truth remains in them, then they will also go out and reveal that they had not belonged. This means either that apostasy is possible or that assurance of salvation is impossible (the latter is more in accord with other Scriptures).
Couplet #3
1Cor. 1:8 - "He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." (versus)
1Cor. 15:2 - "By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain."
(harmonization) Jesus will keep us strong to the end if we continue to believe the Gospel.
Couplet #4
John 10:27-29 – “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.”
(versus)
Col. 1:22-23 - “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”
(harmonization?)
Couplet #1
Romans 8:38-39, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life… nor anything else in all creation,
will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (versus)
Hebrews 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”
(Harmonization) “anything else” in Rom. 38-39 may refer to powers other than the saint "deliberately" or intentionally sinning by repudiating his/her saving faith.
Couplet #2
1John 2:19-20 & 27: "They [antichrists] went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth." (versus)
1John 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”
(harmonization) if those who have the HS do not see that it/the Gospel truth remains in them, then they will also go out and reveal that they had not belonged. This means either that apostasy is possible or that assurance of salvation is impossible (the latter is more in accord with other Scriptures).
Couplet #3
1Cor. 1:8 - "He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." (versus)
1Cor. 15:2 - "By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain."
(harmonization) Jesus will keep us strong to the end if we continue to believe the Gospel.
Couplet #4
John 10:27-29 – “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.”
(versus)
Col. 1:22-23 - “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”
(harmonization?)
Couplet #4
John 10:27-29 – “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.”
(versus)
Col. 1:22-23 - “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”
(harmonization)
Jesus gives eternal life to whoever heeds his teaching about the gospel,
and no one else is able to separate the believer who perseveres from salvation.
I detect waning interest in SBS, which does indeed require perseverance.
However, by now we see a pattern emerging: Understanding election requires
accepting NT teaching that apparent apostasy is possible.
John 10:27-29 – “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.”
(versus)
Col. 1:22-23 - “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”
(harmonization)
Jesus gives eternal life to whoever heeds his teaching about the gospel,
and no one else is able to separate the believer who perseveres from salvation.
I detect waning interest in SBS, which does indeed require perseverance.
However, by now we see a pattern emerging: Understanding election requires
accepting NT teaching that apparent apostasy is possible.
Now let us take a different tack and apply this understanding
as we analyze the OP on the UGE thread, which begins:
1. “Man is doubly incapable of believing in Jesus and the Gospel”
This statement is patently false, because the entire Bible is the story of those who had saving faith,
which Hebrews 11 summarizes. A true statement might be “Many souls have not believed GW.”
2. “Because of the disobedience (sin) of Adam and Eve, all humans are born with an inherited sin nature, and are bent on sinning instead of following God Having a saving faith is against their very nature! (Romans 3:9-18)”
This statement has elements of truth but requires tweaking. Human nature was created good but not perfect,
and Jesus had a human nature that was perfected during his earthly life (Hebrews 5:8-9), which moral perfection
should be every Christian’s goal (Philippians 3:12-15). All humans sin, but every sinner has the opportunity to repent/have saving faith. (Romans 1:20, 2:7, 3:21-22, 4:16-17, 5:8-19)
Thoughts?
as we analyze the OP on the UGE thread, which begins:
1. “Man is doubly incapable of believing in Jesus and the Gospel”
This statement is patently false, because the entire Bible is the story of those who had saving faith,
which Hebrews 11 summarizes. A true statement might be “Many souls have not believed GW.”
2. “Because of the disobedience (sin) of Adam and Eve, all humans are born with an inherited sin nature, and are bent on sinning instead of following God Having a saving faith is against their very nature! (Romans 3:9-18)”
This statement has elements of truth but requires tweaking. Human nature was created good but not perfect,
and Jesus had a human nature that was perfected during his earthly life (Hebrews 5:8-9), which moral perfection
should be every Christian’s goal (Philippians 3:12-15). All humans sin, but every sinner has the opportunity to repent/have saving faith. (Romans 1:20, 2:7, 3:21-22, 4:16-17, 5:8-19)
Thoughts?
Back in the day when computers were becoming a thing they had books out like understanding windows for dummies. So for me I view the bible as understanding God for dummies. So I find the bible is about application and is result driven. Our how do we live the bible so we can become like Christ.
In Peter he calls Lot righteous and says he was vexed by the evil he was around. So vexation of course is being troubled or deeply bothered for a simplistic answer. However, I think that the vexation also can influence to cause a improper response. In Lot's case he offered up his daughter's to the men of Sodom. So I recognize I live in a evil world and I am vexed so it is going to influence the prism I look at the bible under and how to apply it. So I realize I can be wrong so my pride of trying to be right should not get in the way of changing when needed.
I also realize for me that knowledge puffs up. So even if I am right I can still be wrong because it may be pride I am operating in. A good example of this is the Pharisees. Christ said do as they say not as they do because their heart was far from God even though their doctrine was on mark. That is the first thing Christ addresses in his letter to the churches and even us as part of the church. He tells Ephesus that their doctrine is sound but there is a problem they have lost their first love. So I have to weigh is this producing love or is this just a knowledge ego trip for me. I have to be a doer and not just a hearer because just hearing for the sake of knowledge will puff me up.
In Peter he calls Lot righteous and says he was vexed by the evil he was around. So vexation of course is being troubled or deeply bothered for a simplistic answer. However, I think that the vexation also can influence to cause a improper response. In Lot's case he offered up his daughter's to the men of Sodom. So I recognize I live in a evil world and I am vexed so it is going to influence the prism I look at the bible under and how to apply it. So I realize I can be wrong so my pride of trying to be right should not get in the way of changing when needed.
I also realize for me that knowledge puffs up. So even if I am right I can still be wrong because it may be pride I am operating in. A good example of this is the Pharisees. Christ said do as they say not as they do because their heart was far from God even though their doctrine was on mark. That is the first thing Christ addresses in his letter to the churches and even us as part of the church. He tells Ephesus that their doctrine is sound but there is a problem they have lost their first love. So I have to weigh is this producing love or is this just a knowledge ego trip for me. I have to be a doer and not just a hearer because just hearing for the sake of knowledge will puff me up.