Understanding God’s election

[Magenta]

You calvies are incorrigible.

And you insinuate that we don't understand you!

You guys are considered saved in my book.

Very well versed, know the biblical stories and intellectual. But BABES in doctrine.

False accusations aside from you, which is typical anyways and really cannot expect any less from you
since that us how you started with me and seem incapable of doing anything differently EVER... interesting
that you could not simply answer the uncomplicated straightforward question. But again, not surprising.

This is why I rarely engage you. You are dishonest and have zero desire to change.

 

[Magenta]

Of course you don't understand. You believe that the gospel is about choosing rather than a declaration of truth, that soils
can change themselves into other soils, and that the book of Life wasn't written before the foundation of the world.

First he says he does understand then he says he does not. Well, liars can't keep their stories straight. What a tangled web!

 

[Magenta]

Let's see... is it understood when I say men do not have free will?

No, generally speaking and for the most part this is not understood at all.

What usually happens is people immediately jump to exclaiming that I am saying men are bots.

No questions asked, just a straight jump from an erroneous assumption to immovably false conclusion.

Or they claim I have said people do not have or make choices when I have never said any such thing ever.

That is just one example of how laughable it is for that liar guy to say he understands.

I know he does not. In fact his start in these threads almost a year after he joined was to make false claims about
how nobody was misrepresenting my views or the views of others, which was just another lie and misrepresentation.

Then he and people like him jump to, oh, you are a Calvie. While they ignore the Scriptures
I give which fully support my views. They sweep them aside, ignore them, refuse to deal with
them, reject them, deny them, outright pretend Jesus never said what He did. All so they
can cling to their false doctrine and traditions of man, Yes, I do understand.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Your conclusion then?

Believers can be blotted out of the Book of Life?

Or is there another book that people can be blotted out from?

Call it what you want.

Believers CANNOT be blotted out of the book of Life. So there is another book.

Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

when then gets there name blotted out?

 

[Cameron143]

Your conclusion then?

Believers can be blotted out of the Book of Life?

Or is there another book that people can be blotted out from?

Call it what you want.

Believers CANNOT be blotted out of the book of Life. So there is another book.

Have you considered that it refers to Jewish genealogy? The Bible actually records people and families being blotted out.

 

[cv5]

This should clear things up. No Calvinism noted here.

[Phl 4:3 KJV] 3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and [with] other my fellowlabourers, whose names [are] in the book of life.

[Rev 3:5 KJV] 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

[Rev 13:8 KJV] 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

[Rev 17:8 KJV] 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

[Rev 20:12, 15 KJV] 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. ... 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[Rev 21:27 KJV] 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

[Rev 22:19 KJV] 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

 

[Mouse_Cheeks]

“Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭69:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

everyones name is written and then because of thier actions many are blotted out . We can’t say they weren’t in there if he’s blotting them out right ?

“Thou hast rebuked the heathen, thou hast destroyed the wicked, Thou hast put out their name for ever and ever.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭9:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Let his posterity be cut off; And in the generation following let their name be blotted out.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭109:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s not written there’s no reason to be talking about blotting it out but why would someone be blotted out ?

at he book was written before the beginning but names are blotted out of it itnisnt that they were never there

“Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin–; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. ( already has been written )

And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.” (But some will be blotted out )
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But How can we avoid being blotted out of the lords book of life ?

“He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So clearly this scripture can be misunderstood

“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭

One could read that wrong not understanding the book and names are of everyone and along the way many get blotted out .

A final warning about how names can be removed based on the person actions

“and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This concept brother permeates the scripture it’s the same concept here

“Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2-4, 6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It isn’t that the branches were never in the vine but they didn’t bear good fruit and withered and then were removed and burned up . But they were at one point branches in the vine . Just as their names were written by thier creator and later some were blotted out of the book or record of the living

It's odd. It's written right there in your own post and you don't admit it's there.

“Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous.”

Two different books.

 

[Mouse_Cheeks]

Your conclusion then?

Believers can be blotted out of the Book of Life?

Or is there another book that people can be blotted out from?

Call it what you want.

Believers CANNOT be blotted out of the book of Life. So there is another book.

There is another book.

Our names were written by God in the Lambs Book of Life before the creation of this world.

Thinking a name can be deleted when Jesus said,of all the father gives him he shall lose none,does not comport with Jesus resolve.

There are two books.

The Book of the Living is different than the Lambs Book of Life.

Have you ever witnessed anywhere else Arminians who hate Calvin so much that they see him everywhere they look?
They not only know nothing about Calvinism but they contradict Jesus just to get their dig in on those they see as Calvinist.

Unbelievable!
Pun.

 

[Mouse_Cheeks]

What do you make of Romans 2:15? Heh, we also have at least one person here who claims the 613 mitzvot are written on our hearts.

Did you read the link, explain verse, on the Bible page linked to your verse?

The one who thinks the Mitzvot are written on their heart may be a Messianic.

 

[Magenta]

Did you read the link, explain verse, on the Bible page linked to your verse?

The one who thinks the Mitzvot are written on their heart may be a Messianic.

Yes, I know which Bible verse I cited. What do you make of it was the question.

 

[Mouse_Cheeks]

Yes, I know which Bible verse I cited. What do you make of it was the question.

Im sure you do Sis.
I was asking if you read the commentary attached.

We are able to know God's laws because we are led by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Magenta]

Im sure you do Sis.
I was asking if you read the commentary attached.

We are able to know God's laws because we are led by the Holy Spirit.

I did not see any attached commentary, just multiple versions listed. But even if there was commentary
somewhere that I missed, I was not asking about it, but your opinion. The verse is not about the law being
written on our hearts. The "they" in the verse concerns unbelievers... a universal moral compass given by God.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I am not denying that fact but saying since God manifests Himself to everyone then everyone has the opportunity to be saved should they choose to Serve the Lord.

Absolutely in other words

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but sometimes when people hear the truth they react like this and reject it and then there’s another consequence

“and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭2:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If a person comes to the truth and doesn’t reject it god will grant them repentance and tbey can be saved and escape from satans snare of sin and death…. where all mankind is now , without Jesus

“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves;

if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The truth Jesus preached sets us free from the captivity of Satan and his dominion over us by sin. Because Jesus teaches us to repent and follow
His ways and when we do that make him the one we follow and learn from . Then we won’t be killing and lying and cheating and stealing and conmiting adultery and no one even has to them tell us “ thou shall not kill “ we learn to let Christ and his holiness and righteousness expressed in his doctrine fill us up and empty ourselves of all the darkness and lust and greed ect

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, ( he’s saying this to believers ) If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Jesus answered them,

…..Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 34, 36‬ ‭

This is why Doctrine is important.

Read my post again.

There is a book of Life. Believers only.

There is a book of the living. All humans.

There are books of work and deeds.


Revelation~~The BOOKS were opened.

Your conclusion then?

Believers can be blotted out of the Book of Life?

Or is there another book that people can be blotted out from?

Call it what you want.

Believers CANNOT be blotted out of the book of Life. So there is another book.

“Believers CANNOT be blotted out of the book of Life. So there is another book.”

as strongly as you think this I would challenge you to show anywhere the scripture says it . I don’t think it’s thereto be found.

“and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It isn’t a good position to say this scripture doesn’t apply to believers there’s no suggestion of it . But it’s written to the church

“And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,

but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:1-2, 5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have to say that church was made of non believers . It doesn’t really hold water to say it doesn’t apply to believers at least that’s my opinion. The book has always been written before the foundation and along the way you hear about the Lords book and how he’s going to blot sinners out of it for thier own sins against him . How the wicked will Be blotted out of the book of the living blotted out of the book of life for those who won’t repent and who trifle with his word ect

NOt sure the angle it’s not for believers works well there believers should believer it and repent like he says so they aren’t blotted out ….if we say we believe and our actions don’t follow we’re deceiving ourselves



“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭

That’s what it means to be “ blotted out of the book of life “

That’s how one gets blotted out of his book of life

“Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin–; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We could I guess say it’s not his book that’s mentioned in revelation but there’s absolutely no reasoning in the scripture to suggest it. Or explain anything different.

In the end we need to have repentance and remission of our sins in Jesus name order to not be blotted out because everyone’s going to bless we’re saved through the gospel

This isn’t a different Lord speaking about his book that he’s already written and is now speaking about blotting people who sin against him out of , it’s the same God who’s book has been written from the beginning and who blots folks out of this book because of thoer choices and actions against him.

and he’s never saying “ if you say you believe you can’t be blotted out “ he’s saying “ whoever overcomes and repents and believes will not be blotted out of my book “

 

[Mouse_Cheeks]

I did not see any attached commentary, just multiple versions listed. But even if there was commentary
somewhere that I missed, I was not asking about it, but your opinion. The verse is not about the law being
written on our hearts. The "they" in the verse concerns unbelievers... a universal moral compass given by God.

Romans 2:15

ESV
15 They show that the work of the law is ywritten on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them



To clarify my post:
This refers to the Gentiles referenced in that post. And pertains to my post earlier.

.
2:14 Gentiles See note on 1:5.


(Gentiles) my addition in these parentheses) are a law to themselves Although God did not give the law to the Gentiles, some of them do what God requires in the law.

This suggests that people have a natural moral sense or conscience.


2:15 work of the law Refers to the work that the law

requires of people. Compare 3:20.


written on their hearts Paul borrows the language of Jer 31:33 to assert that Gentiles have a sense of right and wrong. Although they do not possess knowledge of God’s will in the law, the Gentiles have a natural sense of morality that functions as an internal “law.” At the same time, Paul insists that the human conscience is weak and prone to corruption (see 1 Cor 8:7, 10; 10:29; 1 Tim 4:2; Tit 1:15).

https://app.logos.com/books/LLS:1.0...utm_campaign=reference_mobile_explain_passage

 

[John146]

So, you agree that God doesn't choose very many Einsteins in this world? So where does that leave all your capable thinking persons? And the above passage is a great proof text example for Isa 55:8-11. But is your faith in the power of God (2:5)? Or is your faith in your smarts which made you capable of believing the gospel?



1Jn 2:2 strongly supports the Reformed position of the atonement. You fail to notice that John made a DISTINCTION between his original audience (primarily Jewish believers) and the "whole world" with that little three letter word "but". IOW, John excluded Jews from the "whole world". Therefore, the phrase "whole world" is used in the limited sense and is referring to Gentile believers.

Scripture defines the world and Gentile believers are not part of it. Same chapter, context…

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 2:15 ESV
15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them

To clarify my post:
This refers to the Gentiles referenced in that post. And pertains to my post earlier.

2:14 Gentiles See note on 1:5.

(Gentiles) my addition in these parentheses) are a law to themselves Although God did not give the law to the Gentiles, some of them do what God requires in the law.

This suggests that people have a natural moral sense or conscience.

2:15 work of the law Refers to the work that the law

requires of people. Compare 3:20.

written on their hearts Paul borrows the language of Jer 31:33 to assert that Gentiles have a sense of right and wrong. Although they do not possess knowledge of God’s will in the law, the Gentiles have a natural sense of morality that functions as an internal “law.” At the same time, Paul insists that the human conscience is weak and prone to corruption (see 1 Cor 8:7, 10; 10:29; 1 Tim 4:2; Tit 1:15).

https://app.logos.com/books/LLS:1.0.710/references/bible+esv.66.2.15?linkSetId=A&tile=left&zzrls={"version":1,"panelAppCommands":[{"pathname":"/books/LLS%3aFSB/references/bible%2besv%2e66%2e2%2e15","query":{"tile":"right","linkSetId":"A"}},{"active":true,"query":{"priority":1}}]}&layout=twoRows&utm_source=biblia&utm_medium=website&registration_source_host=biblia.com&utm_campaign=reference_mobile_explain_passage

I just wanted to make sure you were including unbelievers, since you only mentioned
Christians having the law written on their hearts in the post which I quoted. The
person who claims we have the 613 written on our hearts is a Sabbatarian. I do not
believe we are meant to keep the Sabbath as per the law, and in fact the Sabbath
command was not ever repeated in the new testament. Some people start
giving instances of where the Sabbath is mentioned when this is pointed out.
But mentioning the Sabbath is not necessarily repeating the Sabbath command.
People can be so silly.

 

[BillyBob]

I am not denying that fact but saying since God manifests Himself to everyone then everyone has the opportunity to be saved should they choose to Serve the Lord.

I do not agree that everyone has the opportunity to be saved! God will manifest Himself to leave mankind without excuse!
He will have mercy on His chosen and leave all others in their sin/unbelief...
Mankind seems to think that He must treat everyone the same even though He says “I will have mercy on those of my choosing”.

 

[Magenta]

I do not agree that everyone has the opportunity to be saved! God will manifest Himself to leave
mankind without excuse! He will have mercy on His chosen and leave all others in their sin/unbelief...
Mankind seems to think that He must treat everyone the same even though He says “I will have mercy on those of my choosing”.

Hello BillyBob! I hope you are well... it is interesting that so many Scriptures can be given that show man does not have free will, that God must move first, it is up to Him and is according to His great mercy as He draws us with loving kindness, and it is Jesus Who sets us free ... verses explicitly say it is not according to the desire or effort or will of man, as the natural man cannot receive or comprehend the spiritual things of God... truly, how they have that slave of sin and lover of darkness who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness deciding to believe that which they deem to be foolish is rather perplexing to say the least, but still they persist in asserting that the bad tree of the natural man's incurably wicked heart can produce good fruit, even though Jesus said it could not. He actually said it was impossible.

Romans 9:19-21 One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?

 

[Mouse_Cheeks]

I just wanted to make sure you were including unbelievers, since you only mentioned
Christians having the law written on their hearts in the post which I quoted. The
person who claims we have the 613 written on our hearts is a Sabbatarian. I do not
believe we are meant to keep the Sabbath as per the law, and in fact the Sabbath
command was not ever repeated in the new testament. Some people start
giving instances of where the Sabbath is mentioned when this is pointed out.
But mentioning the Sabbath is not necessarily repeating the Sabbath command.
People can be so silly.

I don't believe unbievers have God's laws written on their hearts. How could they? We're told God does not hear the prayers of sinners. See John 9:31.

And, that the natural man cannot understand the things of God. They are foolishness to them.

As to Sabbath, I don't think I can say those who recognize the Sabbath and live their faith as such are wrong to do so.
God certainly doesn't forbid it so how could I judge?

 

[Magenta]

I don't believe unbievers have God's laws written on their hearts. How could they? We're told God does not hear the prayers of sinners. See John 9:31.

And, that the natural man cannot understand the things of God. They are foolishness to them.

As to Sabbath, I don't think I can say those who recognize the Sabbath and live their faith as such are wrong to do so.
God certainly doesn't forbid it so how could I judge?

Well, that is why I asked you about the verse in the first place. I never said anything about Sabbatarians being wrong
for observing the Sabbath. But they are certainly wrong for insisting we must. That happens a lot with them. We
even had one Sabbath pusher telling us we were breaking a commandment to worship God on Sunday.
That is a flat out lie. Of course pointing out the lies these people tell does not accomplish much.