The Error is Baptism in Jesus name only for salvation

[Wansvic]

Paul literally says...since you believed. How can you say he didn't think they were believers?

The account indicates the 12 heard and submitted to John's message being baptized by him. However, clearly they had not heard of Jesus' sacrifice, glorification and shedding forth of the Holy Spirit. We know Paul instructed them of these things. as we see they obeyed the command to be baptized in the name of Jesus, and received the Holy Spirit at the laying on of his hands. The details referenced in the account reflect what Peter initially presented 20+ years earlier on the Day of Pentecost.

Paul said they were to believe on the one that John said would come after him, that is Jesus Christ.

"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Acts 19:2-5

 

[CS1]

ouch

Yeah, Ouch, wasn't even pithy . Yet his two points were answered and he is still in error

 

[CS1]

so ... are you also a oneness participant then? yes or no will suffice

I don't think he even knows LOL

 

[lrs68]

They do not believe in the Trinity ie 3 persons but one God. This has been stated many times in this thread already

Just being silly for clarification purposes only here, but Jesus said God is Spirit. Man has said God is 3 persons. To end this confusion can you show me the Bible Verses that say other than Jesus that God is 3 persons?


I am struggling to find those Verses anywhere 😭

 

[ocean]

Just being silly for clarification purposes only here, but Jesus said God is Spirit. Man has said God is 3 persons. To end this confusion can you show me the Bible Verses that say other than Jesus that God is 3 persons?


I am struggling to find those Verses anywhere 😭

Sure but let's start with this.

Matthew 3:13-17 :
"At that time Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to prevent Him, saying, 'I need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?' Jesus replied, 'Let it be so now; it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness in this way.' Then John permitted Him. As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him. And a voice from heaven said, 'This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.'"

God speaking from heaven, the Holy Spirit represented by the dove and Jesus.

 

[ocean]

Yeah, Ouch, wasn't even pithy . Yet his two points were answered and he is still in error

Just got here. He calls himself ouch....could be a warning? LOL! At least get the measure of participants before you bang the gavel down

 

[SomeDisciple]

God speaking from heaven, the Holy Spirit represented by the dove and Jesus

A trinitarian teacher will point this out to disciples as an example of the three persons acting together; but it's not really a "proof- text" because of God's omni-attributes.

 

[lrs68]

Sure but let's start with this.

Matthew 3:13-17 :
"At that time Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to prevent Him, saying, 'I need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?' Jesus replied, 'Let it be so now; it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness in this way.' Then John permitted Him. As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him. And a voice from heaven said, 'This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.'"

God speaking from heaven, the Holy Spirit represented by the dove and Jesus.

Technically speaking here, God as Spirit could do that very same thing because the Bible does tell us God manifests Himself. And we see the Holy Spirit manifested as a Dove.

 

[ocean]

Just being silly for clarification purposes only here, but Jesus said God is Spirit. Man has said God is 3 persons. To end this confusion can you show me the Bible Verses that say other than Jesus that God is 3 persons?


I am struggling to find those Verses anywhere 😭

Ok, here are some more. Understand that nowhere in scripture do we explicitly read the word 'Trinity' but it is implied in numerous places

Genesis. God state let US make man in OUR image. He was not addressing angels or we would all have wings. We are tripartite beings, body, soul and spirit which we (when I say we I mean those who adhere to the belief in the Trinity which are most Christians and Bible scholars) illustrative of God in three persons, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. I Cor. 8:6

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Cor. 13:14

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance. I Peter 1: 1-2

So there's a start for you. However, you should research this doctrine and see and find for yourself. That way, you will be either convinced or not convinced. You (everyone) should get into the habit of doing research and not just depend on others to fill them in

 

[Wansvic]

That's a relief; for a second there I thought you might've became self-aware and started violating your programming.

Semantics.

Indeed it does; but you know you are dodging the point that Romans 6 doesn't refer to water baptism in Jesus' name- it refers to the baptism of the spirit into Christ Jesus; that's what gives you the power to walk in newness of life; not water baptism.

Romans 6 is referring to water baptism. Those who believe and obey the command to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ are given the promise of receiving the Holy Ghost. The promise holds true even though the sequence of events differ. Some receive the Holy Spirit first while others receive it after submitting to water baptism. All detailed accounts confirm this truth. (Acts 2:4-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

Paul states, IF we are buried with Jesus in the likeness of his death we will also be in the likeness of His resurrection. The IF condition reveals people have a choice whether or not to obey. Also, verse 6 reveals the baptism referenced is water baptism. Paul expresses sins are destroyed upon obedience to the baptism of which he speaks. This parallels what Peter said in Acts 2:38, (sins are remitted) and what Ananias told Paul in Acts 22:16. (be baptized and wash away your sins calling upon the name of the Lord)

Rom 6:3-6
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried WITH HIM by baptism into death:
(Be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ)

that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
(Be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin)

 

[ocean]

A trinitarian teacher will point this out to disciples as an example of the three persons acting together; but it's not really a "proof- text" because of God's omni-attributes.

Oh dear. Well then just forget about it.

Not really. Note other scriptures I have given and encouraged all to do their own due diligence...be a good Berean...and study so you can give an answer you don't have to be ashamed of.

One of the biggest problems in this forum are people going out of their way to correct others when no correction is needed. Just wait a minute and maybe a better understanding or explanation will be forthcoming.

Another is that many do not even seem to know what the attributes of God are. I do. I don't think your objection is all that because it requires God to split into 3 which of course you are saying is not a problem for Him. Right. He just loves to confuse us that way. Taking that to its logical conclusion, neither of us have proof using that passage.

 

[SomeDisciple]

All that you mention are external manifestations of the Spirit. In other words, observable. Why is that conflated to be an inward work? An indwelling?

I can tell you why; because it's a tactic to get people to continously doubt their relationship with God: especially since in O-P you might not even be saved if you haven't spoken in tongues in a while. I met guys that have gone to those churches for DECADES and wonder if God just wants them to go to hell, because they have never spoken in tongues.

 

[Cameron143]

The account indicates the 12 heard and submitted to John's message being baptized by him. However, clearly they had not heard of Jesus' sacrifice, glorification and shedding forth of the Holy Spirit. We know Paul instructed them of these things. as we see they obeyed the command to be baptized in the name of Jesus, and received the Holy Spirit at the laying on of his hands. The details referenced in the account reflect what Peter initially presented 20+ years earlier on the Day of Pentecost.

Paul said they were to believe on the one that John said would come after him, that is Jesus Christ.

"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Acts 19:2-5

If you are going to ignore what scripture says and add things that aren’t there, you will end in error. Appreciate the discussion. Grace and peace.

 

[ocean]

Paul literally says...since you believed. How can you say he didn't think they were believers?

So? this is now where the scrambled excuse for Exegesis comes to play. It's kind of like a game. How many excuses to refuse what is plainly written can a oneness come up with? It's like blue cheese. You can only eat it holding your nose and even then maybe not.

 

[SomeDisciple]

Romans 6 is referring to water baptism.

No it doesn't- and none of the scripture you posted proves or even suggest that it does.

 

[ocean]

Technically speaking here, God as Spirit could do that very same thing because the Bible does tell us God manifests Himself. And we see the Holy Spirit manifested as a Dove.

You are literally saying 2 different things here. One cancels the other. Please study the doctrine for yourself and stop guessing

 

[ocean]

Romans 6 is referring to water baptism

You are all wet.

 

[CS1]

I can tell you why; because it's a tactic to get people to continously doubt their relationship with God: especially since in O-P you might not even be saved if you haven't spoken in tongues in a while. I met guys that have gone to those churches for DECADES and wonder if God just wants them to go to hell, because they have never spoken in tongues.

as a Pentacostel minister, I agree with your post. I have taught on the Trinity and hold to this Theological concept. However, this word is not found in the Bible. It is what I believe is seen in the word of GOD.

I teach that we must approach the Eternal Godhead reverently, and with this Understanding, man is limited and cannot fully comprehend all that God is of the Divine Nature. We can apprehend but not fully come to know all on this side of Glory.

I see God the Father, the creator of all things in the word of God, and is God: Genesis chapter 1
The one true God has revealed Himself as the eternally self-existent "I AM," the Creator of heaven and earth and the Redeemer of mankind. Isaiah 43:10-11

I see Jesus as the Son of God, who is also God John Chapter 1:18

I see the Holy Spirit as God as revealed in Genesis chapter 1, who is also GOD.


All three God yet one. I can't explain why No one can fully understand this Mystery.

Yet they all received worship and attributes that only God has.

One can't state Jesus is all three manifested in different roles and modes. That is contrary to what Jesus said and did.

 

[Wansvic]

All that you mention are external manifestations of the Spirit. In other words, observable. Why is that conflated to be an inward work? An indwelling?

The external manifestation attested to the Holy Spirit having come to dwell inside the individuals. Consider the following if this were not true:

How did Paul expect the 12 to know whether they had received the Holy Ghost or not?
Note: after their experience there would be no difficulty in answering: Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?

How did the Samaritans know that had not received the Holy Ghost yet?

Why did Jesus say to ask for the Holy Ghost if in fact believers already have the Holy Ghost?

How would Jesus' listeners know whether or not they needed to ask for the Holy Ghost?

 

[Wansvic]

You are all wet.

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Just curious, how old are you?