Understanding God’s election

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Jul 3, 2015
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Despite what the un-Biblical free will doctrine promoters put forth, the natural man does not have everything he needs in order to grow the good fruit of faith from the stony ground of his incurably wicked heart which is opposed to the things of God, and he cannot change himself, being a lover of darkness who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness as a slave to sin, being inherently hostile in his mind toward God, and blinded to the truth while under the power of the evil one. Those who promote the free will of the natural man reject a plethora of Biblical truths.
 

Cameron143

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Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

So, in this dogma (determinism) the words of Jesus cease to be true unless we adjust them.

So let us conduct the eisegesis required....

Jesus answered, “I am the way (only for the enabled/elect.... not the one who trusts in me ) and the truth (only for the enabled/elect.... not the person who trusts in me) and the life (only for the enabled/elect .....not the person who trusts in me).

No one comes to the Father (unless I enable them) except through me.

Seems like we have to change a lot of Jesus' words. :rolleyes:

Jesus has determined the non elect to never believe the truth, that is ultimate destination/end point of this dogma.
This is simply more ignorance on your part. And more evidence you lack understanding. It does cause one to wonder why you are quick to alter the word of God.
 
Jul 3, 2015
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No one comes to the Father (unless I enable them) except through me.

Seems like we have to change a lot of Jesus' words. :rolleyes:

Jesus’ words in John 6 verse 65 I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them. Plus Colossians 1 verse 21 and 2 verse 13; Ephesians 2 verse 1a and 3b; Philippians 1 verse 6 and 2 verse 13
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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This is simply more ignorance on your part. And more evidence you lack understanding. It does cause one to wonder why you are quick to alter the word of God.
Be careful the Reformed have a very well known reputation.

Signature line ..... "you don't understand" :D
 

lrs68

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Dec 30, 2024
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If God reveals Himself or draws a person to Him and they are able to reject Him they rejected God because they choose to. Romans 1 tells us that.

So if God manifests Himself or draws a person to Him and they come aren't they doing the opposite of rejecting God?

If rejecting God is choice like the Bible claims then how is coming to\accepting God not choice?

This is where the Reformed Doctrine is flawed.
 
Jul 3, 2015
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Be careful the Reformed have a very well known reputation.

Signature line ..... "you don't understand" :D
Every post you make about it screams you do not understand, and you deliberately misrepresent not only the position
of others but Scripture itself. You really ought to be ashamed... but I doubt you are, since pride governs you.


Go ahead and laugh. The gospel message is FOOLISHNESS to those who re perishing, do you laugh at that also?

And since you do not understand, the gospel being foolishness to those who are perishing means they don't
understand it because as Scripture ALSO plainly says, the natural man can neither receive nor comprehend
the spiritual things of God. Do you laugh at that as well???
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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You are living proof.
Then I am in excellent "non cult" company... @Kroogz @studier @PaulThomson @Pilgrimshope @cv5 @Ocean (who sadly left, a very strong anti-Calvinist) @HealthAndHappiness @wattie @reneweddaybyday and many more who preach the correct Gospel.

Good news and answered prayers.....

TEDS Demise & Reformed Theology

Posted by expedition44 on April 10, 2025


The Baptist convention is also unfortunately figuring this out over the last few years. [3] Reformed theology leads to Calvinism and those that understand the dilemmas involved with accepting the tenets of these views arguably can’t reconcile them with a Biblical character of God. [4] Many educated young people have walked away from Christianity altogether not being able to reconcile the nature of a loving God with these theological views. This is particularly unfortunate to the rest of the non-reformed world because it is an identifier that those leaving the faith didn’t comprehend that there were several other constructs of Christianity besides reformed theology. [5] According to Barna, less than 31% of all Christians in the US consider their theology to have some kind of reformed perspective (TULIP), yet reformed theology attempts to convince the rest of the world that their view is the only Biblical view. [6]

This notion is killing evangelical Christianity and making people walk away from Jesus. We need to do better.


There are several reasons why reformed theology has been identified as a less Biblical interpretation of the scripture. [7] Along with not reconciling the Biblical character of God in core views of the belief such as Penal Substitutionary Atonement and hardline views of eternal conscious torment there are many other objections. [8] Calvinistic soteriology can lead to a misapplication of scripture and a misunderstanding of its storyline, such as predestination as an example of a concept that is not clearly supported by scripture.


Wow look here >>>>>> Perhaps the bigger problem is trying to position the Bible to say what you want it to say rather than exegetically and faithfully reading it for all it is worth. [9] The doctrine of total depravity and/or original sin which states that humans are inherently sinful and incapable of choosing God, can be seen as a denigration of human nature and a disincentive for personal responsibility. [10] Other critics argue that Reformed theology confuses the gospel of grace by bringing the law into sanctification and hedging on eternal security. [11]

https://expedition44.com/2025/04/10/teds-demise-reformed-theology/


Amen and Amen
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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I've been kicking a few things I feel like have been given to me with deeper insight than how I once looked at it.

Let's take a look at Foreknowledge for a moment.

For those He FOREKNEW:

This is God knowing someone or something before they ever existed. But it donned onto me that is this the Omniscient ALL KNOWING side of God? Or did we exist before the foundation of the world and then came into existence at our appointed time and the spirit side of our being reconnected when God called us out of darkness?

Think for a moment about the [(PASSION)] side of our being. What is it you just enjoy doing the most? I teach and preach. My PASSION is for anyone I am able to speak to and them hear I want them to know about God. So could have my spirit existed before the foundation of the world and my PASSION was to preach and teach and when I was formed in the Union of my parents I was destined to be as I was before I became who I am?
Speculate much? The next thing you'll be telling us is that humans, too, pre-existed before the creation of the world. :rolleyes:
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Then I am in excellent "non cult" company... @Kroogz @studier @PaulThomson @Pilgrimshope @cv5 @Ocean (who sadly left, a very strong anti-Calvinist) @HealthAndHappiness @wattie @reneweddaybyday and many more who preach the correct Gospel.

Good news and answered prayers.....

TEDS Demise & Reformed Theology

Posted by expedition44 on April 10, 2025


The Baptist convention is also unfortunately figuring this out over the last few years. [3] Reformed theology leads to Calvinism and those that understand the dilemmas involved with accepting the tenets of these views arguably can’t reconcile them with a Biblical character of God. [4] Many educated young people have walked away from Christianity altogether not being able to reconcile the nature of a loving God with these theological views. This is particularly unfortunate to the rest of the non-reformed world because it is an identifier that those leaving the faith didn’t comprehend that there were several other constructs of Christianity besides reformed theology. [5] According to Barna, less than 31% of all Christians in the US consider their theology to have some kind of reformed perspective (TULIP), yet reformed theology attempts to convince the rest of the world that their view is the only Biblical view. [6]

This notion is killing evangelical Christianity and making people walk away from Jesus. We need to do better.


There are several reasons why reformed theology has been identified as a less Biblical interpretation of the scripture. [7] Along with not reconciling the Biblical character of God in core views of the belief such as Penal Substitutionary Atonement and hardline views of eternal conscious torment there are many other objections. [8] Calvinistic soteriology can lead to a misapplication of scripture and a misunderstanding of its storyline, such as predestination as an example of a concept that is not clearly supported by scripture.


Wow look here >>>>>> Perhaps the bigger problem is trying to position the Bible to say what you want it to say rather than exegetically and faithfully reading it for all it is worth. [9] The doctrine of total depravity and/or original sin which states that humans are inherently sinful and incapable of choosing God, can be seen as a denigration of human nature and a disincentive for personal responsibility. [10] Other critics argue that Reformed theology confuses the gospel of grace by bringing the law into sanctification and hedging on eternal security. [11]

https://expedition44.com/2025/04/10/teds-demise-reformed-theology/


Amen and Amen
So...you are saying that there are a number of others who share your understanding. Am I now expected to write a longer list? My list is bigger and can beat up your list?
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
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Then I am in excellent "non cult" company... @Kroogz @studier @PaulThomson @Pilgrimshope @cv5 @Ocean (who sadly left, a very strong anti-Calvinist) @HealthAndHappiness @wattie @reneweddaybyday and many more who preach the correct Gospel.

Good news and answered prayers.....

TEDS Demise & Reformed Theology

Posted by expedition44 on April 10, 2025


The Baptist convention is also unfortunately figuring this out over the last few years. [3] Reformed theology leads to Calvinism and those that understand the dilemmas involved with accepting the tenets of these views arguably can’t reconcile them with a Biblical character of God. [4] Many educated young people have walked away from Christianity altogether not being able to reconcile the nature of a loving God with these theological views. This is particularly unfortunate to the rest of the non-reformed world because it is an identifier that those leaving the faith didn’t comprehend that there were several other constructs of Christianity besides reformed theology. [5] According to Barna, less than 31% of all Christians in the US consider their theology to have some kind of reformed perspective (TULIP), yet reformed theology attempts to convince the rest of the world that their view is the only Biblical view. [6]

This notion is killing evangelical Christianity and making people walk away from Jesus. We need to do better.


There are several reasons why reformed theology has been identified as a less Biblical interpretation of the scripture. [7] Along with not reconciling the Biblical character of God in core views of the belief such as Penal Substitutionary Atonement and hardline views of eternal conscious torment there are many other objections. [8] Calvinistic soteriology can lead to a misapplication of scripture and a misunderstanding of its storyline, such as predestination as an example of a concept that is not clearly supported by scripture.


Wow look here >>>>>> Perhaps the bigger problem is trying to position the Bible to say what you want it to say rather than exegetically and faithfully reading it for all it is worth. [9] The doctrine of total depravity and/or original sin which states that humans are inherently sinful and incapable of choosing God, can be seen as a denigration of human nature and a disincentive for personal responsibility. [10] Other critics argue that Reformed theology confuses the gospel of grace by bringing the law into sanctification and hedging on eternal security. [11]

https://expedition44.com/2025/04/10/teds-demise-reformed-theology/


Amen and Amen
And that is the trend. Calvies infiltrate and conquer gospel teaching churches.

Hard to do a fresh start up with this on your "welcome" sign:

"You are totally depraved and our message to you is foolishness."
 

lrs68

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2024
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And that is the trend. Calvies infiltrate and conquer gospel teaching churches.

Hard to do a fresh start up with this on your "welcome" sign:

"You are totally depraved and our message to you is foolishness."
People wonder why the Pentecostal Movement has been growing for the past 50 years while the Reformed churches have been losing members.

They call the Pentecostal Movement false and their beliefs truth but they are being rejected because it doesn't align to the truth of the Bible.
 

Kroogz

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Dec 5, 2023
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People wonder why the Pentecostal Movement has been growing for the past 50 years while the Reformed churches have been losing members.

They call the Pentecostal Movement false and their beliefs truth but they are being rejected because it doesn't align to the truth of the Bible.
Reformed theology is cold and rigid. Its emphasis/focus is on MANKIND and his "worthlessness." Not on what GOD did for mankind.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Reformed theology is cold and rigid. It's emphasis/focus is on MANKIND and his worthlessness. Not on what GOD did for mankind.
To the contrary, reformed faith focuses predominantly on what God has done, and doesn't attribute the actions of God to men.
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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IOW, you don't like what YHWH had to say in Ex3 that I posted for your edification. Nothing new here.
And you didn't read what I posted about Ex 3 in my 14,507. Here is the excerpt again:

Ex 3:18-22
18 "The elders of Israel
WILL [in the immediate future] listen to you. Then you and the elders are to go to the king of Egypt and say to him, 'The LORD, the God of the Hebrews, has met with us. Let us take a three-day journey into the desert to offer sacrifices to the LORD our God.' 19 But I know that the king of Egypt WILL not [in the immediate future] let you go unless a mighty hand COMPELS him. 20 So I WILL [in the immediate future] stretch out my hand and strike the Egyptians with all the wonders that I WILL [soon] perform among them. After that, he WILL [shortly] let you go.

21 "And I WILL [in the immediate future] make the Egyptians favorably disposed toward this people, so that when you leave you will not go empty-handed. 22 Every woman is to ask her neighbor and any woman living in her house for articles of silver and gold and for clothing, which you will put on your sons and daughters. And so you WILL [in the immediate future] plunder the Egyptians."

But even before this passage, God prophesied to Abraham about how Egypt would mistreat and oppress his chosen, covenant people for 400 years and how He would punish them for that (Gen 15:12-16). But in addition to this decree, there's another fascinating "tidbit" in this Genesis passage that teaches an alert, astute reader that God plays the long game! The Hebrews were a vital part of God's eternal plan to destroy the wicked Amorites, which is why they spent so much time in Egypt!

So let's follow the timeline which does not work in your favor: First we have the prophecy way back in Gen 15. Then God reveals more of plan for His people and Egypt in Ex 3. And in this latter chapter, God knows with certainty that Pharaoh will resist His command and not let the Hebrews go free. Then we get to chapter 4, God expands a little bit more on Ex 3:19; for in Ex 4:21 God tells Moses WHY Pharaoh will not set is people free. He won't cooperate with God because God had determined in eternity to punish Egypt, through its wicked king, and this was certain to come to past because God himself would harden Pharaoh's heart so that He'd be able to COMPEL ("force") Pharaoh to eventually comply with His command! There's not a shred of evidence in these passages that God gazed into his crystal ball and "foresaw" Pharaoh's stubbornness. Rather, Pharaoh's heart was obstinate because of God's eternal decree. This eternal decree long preceded Pharaoh's self-hardening that took place in time and space as the inevitable and certain result of God's decree. God raised Pharaoh up for His specific purpose, which He would fulfill through the king.