Does man have a freewill ?

[Lamar]

No, simply living in ignorance. But of course you know I don't believe there are only a chosen few.
Understanding the outworking of salvation doesn't preclude salvation. If one truly believes into Christ, they are saved.

Regardless of willful unrepentant sin?

How do you understand Matthew 22;14?

“For many are invited, but few are chosen.”

 

[Magenta]

Gods choosey like that.

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

2 Timothy 1 verse 9~ He has saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works, but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time began. Ephesians 1 verses 4-5~ He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will. Ephesians 1 verse 11~ In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.

 

[HeIsHere]

I don't believe it is. God chooses, and then blesses whom He has chosen,
with the ability to respond. I didn't choose God, he broke me down to the point where I had no choice but to cry out to Him. He'd good like that. God chose His saints before the foundation of the world.

Too bad, so sad for those He leaves in their sin.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

All humans are created in the womb equally including with a sin nature?

That means all humans are created in the [image] of God... so all humans are hardwired the same.

Adam and Eve were created in the image and likeness of God:

Genesis 1:26-27 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


The Lord Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God:

Colossians 1:15 Who [the Lord Jesus Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature


Descendants of Adam were/are/will be begotten after the image and likeness of their father and mother:

Genesis 5:

1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth

So how can 2 people hear the same Gospel preached and 1 become saved and the other never get saved?

God allows mankind to reject ...

The one who does not reject, hears, trusts, believes ...

Ephesians 1:12-13 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

after I heard, I trusted ... after I trusted, I believed ... then sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The one who does not reject, hears, trusts, believes ...

... adding to Post 245 for clarification ...

It's not the hearing that saved me
It's not the trusting that saved me
It's not the believing that saved me

It is the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation ...

Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein [the gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
.

 

[Cameron143]

But I can not boast in that. Because God forced me to make a choice.. He did not force me to believe 9as you insist he does)


He who believes is not condemned

he who does not believe is condemned already

sounds like we have two choices.. and only 2


so no one repents? and changes their mind?


You did not have to ask yourself. but you chose to believe.

You could have chose to walk away, but you did not.


your reading to much into it.

in every case, you made a chioce. You do not have to think you have to make a choice.

If I am driving toward a wall. I have to make a choice. continue straight and die. or turn and live

I do not say to myself. I need to make a choice. I just do it

I never said God forces anyone. He employs enlightenment and love.

He who believes is not condemned is a statement of fact. Nothing about choice.
He who believes not is condemned already. Again, nothing about choosing. Simple declarative statements positing truth. Choice must be conferred upon the statements.

Of course people repent. That's what a godly sorrow consists in.

You say I chose to believe. The Bible says I simply believed.

 

[Magenta]

Too bad, so sad for those He leaves in their sin.

Oy, my Bible says men are without excuse. Does yours say something different?

Oh, yes, you believe God is unfair.

Never mind.

 

[Magenta]

I never said God forces anyone.

The level of misrepresentation often reaches epic proportions.

 

[TomCullen]

so God holds one up.

and tears the other down..


is this a God of love?

Jacob He loved, Esau He hated.
Yes, that's exactly what God does.
But unlike us, He is perfectly discriminating, perfectly just, omniscient, and outside of time.
God can and will do exactly as He pleases, and will be perfect and perfectly just in doing so.

 

[Cameron143]

Regardless of willful unrepentant sin?

How do you understand Matthew 22;14?

“For many are invited, but few are chosen.”

I believe that applies to that particular audience.
Not sure what you mean by willful unrepentant sin.

 

[Aaron56]

Again, all this is true. I don't deny any of it. What I'm saying is that simply because man has a spirit that attests to the reality of God, doesn't mean in his fallen state he is able to undo the effects sin has had upon him. Man is in fact helpless to be saved apart from the intervention of God. And this is what the substance of my posts are about. Men will not choose to seek God, do good, or please God without God first drawing him, changing his heart and setting him free.

I see.

I see that God has already provided the means of freedom to all men: in creation and in man himself. And that man is surrounded by a setting that constantly draws man to God. [Please note: this is NOT that man can save himself. Every man has a spirit given to him by God which is not of man's doing.]

I also see that the "change of heart" is one of location: from the heart of the soul to the heart of man's spirit. The spirit of a man is made alive, in Christ, by living through the man as God designed man's spirit to do. This occurs when man ceases to resist God because the draw of God is always present: as an inner and outer witness. This is why no man has an excuse.

 

[Cameron143]

I see.

I see that God has already provided the means of freedom to all men: in creation and in man himself. And that man is surrounded by a setting that constantly draws man to God. [Please note: this is NOT that man can save himself. Every man has a spirit given to him by God which is not of man's doing.]

I also see that the "change of heart" is one of location: from the heart of the soul to the heart of man's spirit. The spirit of a man is made alive, in Christ, by living through the man as God designed man's spirit to do. This occurs when man ceases to resist God because the draw of God is always present: as an inner and outer witness. This is why no man has an excuse.

I see it differently. While creation and conscience are sufficient for man to know that God exists and make him culpable before God, they are insufficient to produce spiritual life within the individual. Further, faith is necessary part of salvation, and that requires both the word of God and the Spirit of God. So as I understand scripture, man left to himself knows God exists and is accountable before him, but helpless to affect the change necessary to come to faith.
I do believe it is worth noting from Romans 1 that not any mention is made of any listed in the passage are said to come to faith, and that the condition of all markedly declined even though they knew of the existence of God.

 

[Aaron56]

I see it differently. While creation and conscience are sufficient for man to know that God exists and make him culpable before God, they are insufficient to produce spiritual life within the individual. Further, faith is necessary part of salvation, and that requires both the word of God and the Spirit of God. So as I understand scripture, man left to himself knows God exists and is accountable before him, but helpless to affect the change necessary to come to faith.
I do believe it is worth noting from Romans 1 that not any mention is made of any listed in the passage are said to come to faith, and that the condition of all markedly declined even though they knew of the existence of God.

I understand. When I’m done traveling I’ll spend more time on this. Thank you.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I do believe it is worth noting from Romans 1 that not any mention is made of any listed in the passage are said to come to faith, and that the condition of all markedly declined even though they knew of the existence of God.

Just before the declination, verses mention those who come to faith:

Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein [the gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


Then Romans 1:18-32 spell out what occurs within those who continue to suppress the truth in unrighteousness ...

Rom 1:18 — the wrath of God is revealed against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness. (The words hold the truth in unrighteousness mean that the truth is restrained or suppressed in unrighteousness. It is not God Who restrains ... it is the person who suppresses the truth that restrains ... which is why they are without excuse).

Rom 1:19-21 — God reveals Himself in creation and people turn from Him and are not thankful. They become vain in their imaginations and the foolish heart becomes darkened.

Rom 1:22-24 — because the heart is darkened, they change the glory of God into an image (idolatry).

They are given up to uncleannesss through the lusts of their own hearts.

Rom 1:24-26 — because they are given up to uncleanness, they dishonor their bodies. The truth of God is changed into a lie and creation is worshipped more than the Creator.

They are given up to vile affections and the natural is changed into that which is against nature.

Rom 1:27-28 — because they are given up to vile affections, they burn in their lust and work that which is unseemly which results in receiving the adequate compensation for their error.

They are given over to a reprobate mind.

Rom 1:29-32 — actions of those with a reprobate mind. They know the judgment of God and continue in their foolishness and also have pleasure in those who do the same.

People are not born with a reprobate mind. They are allowed to step further and further from God and at certain points, God releases them to their foolishness. It is a downward spiral from their foolish heart was darkened (Rom 1:21) to God gave them over to a reprobate mind (Rom 1:28). It does not happen overnight. It is a progression over time.

At any point, a person can turn to God. God forgives those who are truly repentant. We have this lifetime to turn to God. Look at the malefactor who hung on the cross next to Jesus (Luke 23:39-43).
.

 

[Cameron143]

Just before the declination, verses mention those who come to faith:

Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein [the gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


Then Romans 1:18-32 spell out what occurs within those who continue to suppress the truth in unrighteousness ...

Rom 1:18 — the wrath of God is revealed against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness. (The words hold the truth in unrighteousness mean that the truth is restrained or suppressed in unrighteousness. It is not God Who restrains ... it is the person who suppresses the truth that restrains ... which is why they are without excuse).

Rom 1:19-21 — God reveals Himself in creation and people turn from Him and are not thankful. They become vain in their imaginations and the foolish heart becomes darkened.

Rom 1:22-24 — because the heart is darkened, they change the glory of God into an image (idolatry).

They are given up to uncleannesss through the lusts of their own hearts.

Rom 1:24-26 — because they are given up to uncleanness, they dishonor their bodies. The truth of God is changed into a lie and creation is worshipped more than the Creator.

They are given up to vile affections and the natural is changed into that which is against nature.

Rom 1:27-28 — because they are given up to vile affections, they burn in their lust and work that which is unseemly which results in receiving the adequate compensation for their error.

They are given over to a reprobate mind.

Rom 1:29-32 — actions of those with a reprobate mind. They know the judgment of God and continue in their foolishness and also have pleasure in those who do the same.

People are not born with a reprobate mind. They are allowed to step further and further from God and at certain points, God releases them to their foolishness. It is a downward spiral from their foolish heart was darkened (Rom 1:21) to God gave them over to a reprobate mind (Rom 1:28). It does not happen overnight. It is a progression over time.

At any point, a person can turn to God. God forgives those who are truly repentant. We have this lifetime to turn to God. Look at the malefactor who hung on the cross next to Jesus (Luke 23:39-43).
.

Sure. The gospel can change outcome, but simply knowing of the existence of God does not.
And the Bible does not teach that fallen man has any predilection to seek after God.

 

[Magenta]

People are not born with a reprobate mind.

It is the heart that is spoken of as being incurably wicked. With the heart one believes. Man can
no more change himself than a leopard can change his spots or an Ethiopian the colour of his skin,
according to Scripture. The stony ground of the natural man's heart is not good ground for growing
the Seed of God's Word. And a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. Jesus said so. "For the mind
that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot."

“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. Mark ch. 10 verse 18 and Luke ch. 18 verse 19 “There is only One who is good.” Matthew ch. 19 verse 17b. There is no one who does good. fr Psalm ch. 14. There is no one righteous, not even one. Romans ch. 3 verse 10. They are corrupt; their ways are vile. There is no one who does good. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. fr Psalm ch. 53 verses 1-3. Surely there is no righteous man on earth who does good and never sins. Ecclesiastes ch. 7 verse 20. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

 

[BillyBob]

Too bad, so sad for those He leaves in their sin.

The very fact that any sinner is saved is mercy and grace beyond our understanding. We each deserve His condemnation! It's too bad so sad that you are unable to understand this.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Sure. The gospel can change outcome, but simply knowing of the existence of God does not.
And the Bible does not teach that fallen man has any predilection to seek after God.

It is the heart that is spoken of as being incurably wicked. With the heart one believes. Man can
no more change himself than a leopard can change his spots or an Ethiopian the colour of his skin,
according to Scripture. The stony ground of the natural man's heart is not good ground for growing
the Seed of God's Word. And a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. Jesus said so. "For the mind
that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot."

throughout both Old Testament and New Testament writings in Scripture, God reached out to mankind through believers. From the early days of mankind's existence, believers spoke truth to unbelievers. This fact has not changed.

Believers reaching out to unbelievers ... speaking the truth of God's Word to those who are desperately in need of deliverance ... that is how God draws people.

What are we telling people about God? ... about God's Word? ... about the Lord Jesus Christ???

Are we telling people the truth of Scripture? ... or are we telling people about what our particular dogma says about Scripture.

I am not responsible for making people believe the truth of Scripture ... I am only responsible to speak the truth of Scripture.

When I speak the truth of Scripture and the person I am speaking to does not suppress the truth in unrighteousness, God works to bring increase in the heart of the person.

When I speak the truth of Scripture and the person I am speaking to does suppress the truth in unrighteousness, God does not work to bring increase in the heart of the person.

If I add to Scripture ... or withhold Scripture ... or mix Scripture with man's wisdom, what is there that God may bring increase?


1 Corinthians 3:

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I love that we are labourers together with God ... what an awesome blessing!!!

The believer speaking God's Word is God reaching out to draw people to Himself. What happened to Paul on the way to Damascus is amazing ... but it was a one-off. God does not always draw people in this manner.
.

 

[Cameron143]

throughout both Old Testament and New Testament writings in Scripture, God reached out to mankind through believers. From the early days of mankind's existence, believers spoke truth to unbelievers. This fact has not changed.

Believers reaching out to unbelievers ... speaking the truth of God's Word to those who are desperately in need of deliverance ... that is how God draws people.

What are we telling people about God? ... about God's Word? ... about the Lord Jesus Christ???

Are we telling people the truth of Scripture? ... or are we telling people about what our particular dogma says about Scripture.

I am not responsible for making people believe the truth of Scripture ... I am only responsible to speak the truth of Scripture.

When I speak the truth of Scripture and the person I am speaking to does not suppress the truth in unrighteousness, God works to bring increase in the heart of the person.

When I speak the truth of Scripture and the person I am speaking to does suppress the truth in unrighteousness, God does not work to bring increase in the heart of the person.

If I add to Scripture ... or withhold Scripture ... or mix Scripture with man's wisdom, what is there that God may bring increase?


1 Corinthians 3:

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I love that we are labourers together with God ... what an awesome blessing!!!

The believer speaking God's Word is God reaching out to draw people to Himself. What happened to Paul on the way to Damascus is amazing ... but it was a one-off. God does not always draw people in this manner.
.

You should have began and stopped with...God gave the increase. It always takes God to provide the increase.