"GET OUT"!

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Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
3,342
1,533
113
#1
this occurred Friday, June 27th, 2025, about noon: i was at the post office retrieving the mail & noticed an older lady with a stand collecting donations for the catholic church. i asked, "what are the donations for"? she said, "the church", me; "but for what"? her, "the church", me: "what specifically for"?, her: "you know the church", me: "ma'am, there has to be a reason or reasons", her: "to pay for this & that", me: "like maintenance"? she finally said, "yes". i don't give money away unless i know the exact reason & have it checked 2 or 3 times. so, me seeing that it was a catholic church & a chance to witness to her, i said to her, "i am here in the name of peace & truth, did you know that the hail mary prayer is invalid & neither God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit nor mary hears it"? then i recited these verses, Hebrews 9:15, 12;24, 1:1,2 7:25, Colossians 1:19 & 3:17, 1st Timothy 2:5 (especially ), 1st Corinthians 8:6, 10:31, Ephesians 1:22,23, John 14:26 & Matthew 28:18. i also preceded to tell her that God never gave mary the ability, authority or power to hear a prayer & grant a request. she gave a brief look of amazement & motioned with her hands for me to move aside. then she said, "get out"!
 

Hui1

Active member
Jun 13, 2023
257
80
28
41
#3
this occurred Friday, June 27th, 2025, about noon: i was at the post office retrieving the mail & noticed an older lady with a stand collecting donations for the catholic church. i asked, "what are the donations for"? she said, "the church", me; "but for what"? her, "the church", me: "what specifically for"?, her: "you know the church", me: "ma'am, there has to be a reason or reasons", her: "to pay for this & that", me: "like maintenance"? she finally said, "yes". i don't give money away unless i know the exact reason & have it checked 2 or 3 times. so, me seeing that it was a catholic church & a chance to witness to her, i said to her, "i am here in the name of peace & truth, did you know that the hail mary prayer is invalid & neither God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit nor mary hears it"? then i recited these verses, Hebrews 9:15, 12;24, 1:1,2 7:25, Colossians 1:19 & 3:17, 1st Timothy 2:5 (especially ), 1st Corinthians 8:6, 10:31, Ephesians 1:22,23, John 14:26 & Matthew 28:18. i also preceded to tell her that God never gave mary the ability, authority or power to hear a prayer & grant a request. she gave a brief look of amazement & motioned with her hands for me to move aside. then she said, "get out"!
You are brave. God bless you.!
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
3,342
1,533
113
#4
what's the moral of this story, Karlon? I'm not seeing virtue in your interaction with this woman.
1. i began to witness to her.
2. i was calm & cogenial
3. i smiled while speaking to her.
4. i was doing the Lord's work.
5. teaching people that the h.m. is invalid wrong is the Lord's work God gave me.
6. if you can't see it then you had to be there.
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
3,342
1,533
113
#5
what's the moral of this story, Karlon? I'm not seeing virtue in your interaction with this woman.
1. i began to witness to her.
2. i was calm & joyfully social
3. i smiled while speaking to her.
4. i was doing the Lord's work.
5. teaching people that the h.m. is invalid wrong is the Lord's work God gave me.
6. if you can't see it then you had to be there.
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
3,342
1,533
113
#7
what's the moral of this story, Karlon? I'm not seeing virtue in your interaction with this woman.
1. i began to witness to her.
2. i was calm & joyfully social
3. i smiled while speaking to her.
4. i was doing the Lord's work.
5. teaching people that the h.m. is invalid wrong is the Lord's work God gave me.
6. if you can't see it then you had to be there.
I suspect that she was collecting money for herself.
I suspect that she was collecting money for herself.
no, she wasn't. i know her. she's known in the local area for volunteering for the church. we've all seen her there before. however, it would be quite honest if they released the church's bank info.
 
Feb 17, 2023
2,327
1,323
113
#8
1. i began to witness to her.
2. i was calm & joyfully social
3. i smiled while speaking to her.
4. i was doing the Lord's work.
5. teaching people that the h.m. is invalid wrong is the Lord's work God gave me.
6. if you can't see it then you had to be there.


no, she wasn't. i know her. she's known in the local area for volunteering for the church. we've all seen her there before. however, it would be quite honest if they released the church's bank info.

Why was she so vague about how the money would have been used though? Nevertheless that was an awesome presentation to her!


💒
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
3,342
1,533
113
#9
Why was she so vague about how the money would have been used though? Nevertheless that was an awesome presentation to her!


💒
right on with your question. some people are just lazy with answers. could be that. but now-a-days, people would think she's up to thievery. she's known in the community. also, catholic churches around here, ( Saratoga ), have been dwindling in numbers for decades & you & i know that's a move in the right direction. thank you 2ndTimeIsTheCharm! your bold bright intelligent lady above still grips me with her character & makes me smile! i'll never tire of it.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
8,031
2,484
113
#10
As I understand it, the catholic church is never locked, so, it makes sense that keeping it continually accessible would be a drain on funding. They consider the church a sort of sanctuary, I think is the idea, but idk because it'd seem that more homeless people, for example, would then be flocking to it.
 
Apr 1, 2025
3
1
3
#11
1. i began to witness to her.
2. i was calm & joyfully social
3. i smiled while speaking to her.
4. i was doing the Lord's work.
5. teaching people that the h.m. is invalid wrong is the Lord's work God gave me.
6. if you can't see it then you had to be there.
1. i began to witness to her.
2. i was calm & joyfully social
3. i smiled while speaking to her.
4. i was doing the Lord's work.
5. teaching people that the h.m. is invalid wrong is the Lord's work God gave me.
6. if you can't see it then you had to be there.
You approached this woman with a friendly, calm demeanor. I do agree. The intention of my debriefing, however, is to uncover your moral objective. If your forethought was to simply question this woman's purpose for collecting donations, I see no harm. I adore the verses you shared as well. These are very focused on the centrality of Christ as mediator, the supremacy of His authority, and the sufficiency of his sacrifice. Not a word of fallacy is to be found in these words, nor do they dismiss any sort of prayer or the divinity found in our Mother Mary. I see that you are strong in your faith of Jesus as the sole redeemer and mediator between God and humanity. Be that as it may, Catholic theology makes a distinction between mediation of redemption (which is with Christ alone) and mediation of intercession (which can be shared by others, including Mary.) Just as we ask our loved ones to pray for us, I believe prayer from those deeply united with Christ is very powerful and influential. We believe that Mary, being fully unified with God in heaven, can intercede on our behalf. Catholics--I've come to believe--we are romantics of the Word. We do not just read the bible, we inhabit it. It is not just a rulebook but a divine love story between God and humanity, played out through covenant, incarnation, sacrifice, and resurrection. Every mass is telling of this story, Genisis all the way to Revelations, God finds us again, woos us, redeems us. Mary is venerated not as a distant figure, but as a tender mother who reveals the softer, nurturing face of God’s story. Catholics don't want to cherry-pick through the Bible. we want to embrace the Word as inspired: the beauty and the heartbreak, the poetry of the Psalms, the warnings of the prophets, the drama of the Gospels, the visions of Revelation. The liturgical calendar itself ensures that Catholics revisit the entire arc of Scripture throughout the year from Advent’s anticipation to Pentecost’s flame. We don't just belief in Truth, but truth that loves us back.
The Lord, of course, is our One true redeemer, just as He is to you. We come to know Him through His Word, which is not just ink on a page but living and active. How can any prayer direct to the Glory of God be invalid?

P.S

Martin Luther called Mary “the highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ." John Wycliffe, a pre-reformation figure, once said, “It seems to me impossible that we should obtain the reward of Heaven without the help of Mary” Even Ulrich Zwingli said, “The more the honor and love of Christ increases among men, so much the esteem and honor given to Mary should grow.”

Luke 1:28, Luke 1:42, Luke 1:43
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
3,342
1,533
113
#12
You approached this woman with a friendly, calm demeanor. I do agree. The intention of my debriefing, however, is to uncover your moral objective. If your forethought was to simply question this woman's purpose for collecting donations, I see no harm. I adore the verses you shared as well. These are very focused on the centrality of Christ as mediator, the supremacy of His authority, and the sufficiency of his sacrifice. Not a word of fallacy is to be found in these words, nor do they dismiss any sort of prayer or the divinity found in our Mother Mary. I see that you are strong in your faith of Jesus as the sole redeemer and mediator between God and humanity. Be that as it may, Catholic theology makes a distinction between mediation of redemption (which is with Christ alone) and mediation of intercession (which can be shared by others, including Mary.) Just as we ask our loved ones to pray for us, I believe prayer from those deeply united with Christ is very powerful and influential. We believe that Mary, being fully unified with God in heaven, can intercede on our behalf. Catholics--I've come to believe--we are romantics of the Word. We do not just read the bible, we inhabit it. It is not just a rulebook but a divine love story between God and humanity, played out through covenant, incarnation, sacrifice, and resurrection. Every mass is telling of this story, Genisis all the way to Revelations, God finds us again, woos us, redeems us. Mary is venerated not as a distant figure, but as a tender mother who reveals the softer, nurturing face of God’s story. Catholics don't want to cherry-pick through the Bible. we want to embrace the Word as inspired: the beauty and the heartbreak, the poetry of the Psalms, the warnings of the prophets, the drama of the Gospels, the visions of Revelation. The liturgical calendar itself ensures that Catholics revisit the entire arc of Scripture throughout the year from Advent’s anticipation to Pentecost’s flame. We don't just belief in Truth, but truth that loves us back.
The Lord, of course, is our One true redeemer, just as He is to you. We come to know Him through His Word, which is not just ink on a page but living and active. How can any prayer direct to the Glory of God be invalid?

P.S

Martin Luther called Mary “the highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ." John Wycliffe, a pre-reformation figure, once said, “It seems to me impossible that we should obtain the reward of Heaven without the help of Mary” Even Ulrich Zwingli said, “The more the honor and love of Christ increases among men, so much the esteem and honor given to Mary should grow.”

Luke 1:28, Luke 1:42, Luke 1:43
1. show me 1 verse in the Bible ( God's Bible, not catholic, 1st Peter 1:20, 21 & 2nd Timothy 3:16,17 ), that teaches mediation in mary.
2. contact with the dead is called necromancy & it is sin. God forbids it.
3.. by course, prayer by born again Christians is deeply united with Christ.
4. study 1st Timothy 2:5- "for there is 1 God & ONE MEDIATOR between God & men, the MAN, Christ Jesus. plus, there are many other verses proving that Jesus is the only mediator. if you believe mary is a mediator, who is dead, what other people that are dead are mediators?
5. cherry pick? maybe they should to learn the truth.
6. you are lost in your beliefs. i hope you seek proper Christian counsel to know the truth. ( 2nd Timothy 27 & 15 ).
 
Apr 1, 2025
3
1
3
#13
I want to begin by acknowledging and truly appreciating your boldness in sharing the Gospel. I can see that your heart burns for the Lord and you are deeply committed to devoting your life to honor Him and live by His Word. Such strong conviction is not only rare but so very precious. I see in you a man who hungers for righteousness and walks alongside Christ. I too am a believer in the immaculate healing power of Jesus Christ. I believe his sacrifice is final and his mercy whole and complete. Through him alone we have access to the Father and through Him our hearts are transformed. God wants to draw people to Him, never push them away. When a heart turns to God, whether in praise, in pain, in confusion, or longing, can that truly be dismissed by the One who searches hearts and welcomes the contrite? So, when a soul, even with imperfect words or misunderstood theology, turns in faith toward the Living God, seeking His glory and mercy, can we not trust that the Holy Spirit intercedes “with groanings too deep for words” (Romans 8:26)?
For Catholics, prayers like the Hail Mary are never about bypassing Christ, but about drawing nearer to Him with the help of those who are already radiant in His presence. For Protestants, a direct plea to Jesus is the heart of devotion. For both, the orientation is the same: Godward. Christ-centered. Spirit-led.

Now, with that being said I am more than happy to analyze this further.

1.The chapter opens with this...

“I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people…” (1 Timothy 2:1)

This verse explicitly encourages intercession, that is, praying on behalf of others. Paul is urging the Christian community to actively participate in intercessory prayer, especially for leaders and those in authority, so that society may live in peace and godliness.
This verse affirms that Jesus is the sole mediator of redemption, the one who reconciles humanity to God through His sacrifice. But it doesn’t cancel out the earlier call for believers to intercede for one another. In fact, it assumes that we do. So, the passage distinguishes between Christ’s unique role as Redeemer and the shared role of believers in intercessory prayer.


2. “Contact with the dead is necromancy.”
Necromancy is condemned in Scripture (Deuteronomy 18:10–12), but asking saints to pray for us is not necromancy. Catholics don’t summon spirits, seek secret knowledge, or experiment with clairvoyance, they believe in the “cloud of witnesses” (Hebrews 12:1) and that those in Christ are not dead, but alive with Him. Jesus Himself said, “He is not the God of the dead, but of the living” (Luke 20:38).


Also, as Jesus said in John 11:25–26, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die…”


Mary is not dead, but fully alive in the presence of God, body and soul. Her life didn’t end in separation, but in glorification. That’s why Catholics refer to her as “the Blessed Virgin Mary”, not out of superstition, but as a recognition of her ongoing presence within the Communion of Saints. Eternal life in Christ is not "death" but fullness of life. So, when we speak of Mary’s Assumption or ask for her intercession, we’re not turning from Christ--we’re turning with her toward Him. We’re saying: “Pray with me, Mother, as I seek your Son.” Think of it like this: if you ask a friend to pray for you, are you denying Christ’s role? No! You're inviting others to join you in prayer. That’s how Catholics view Mary’s intercession: not as competition with Christ, but as participation in His love.

5. “Cherry pick? Maybe they should to learn the truth.”
Catholics would say the opposite: they aim to embrace the whole of Scripture, not just isolated verses. The liturgy cycles through nearly the entire Bible over three years. The Catholic Church doesn’t avoid hard passages ever, it wrestles with them, studies them, and prays through them.

6. “You are lost in your beliefs.”
That’s a strong statement, and I know it comes from concern. But remember truth and love must walk together. 2 Timothy 2:24–25 reminds us that “the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.” If we believe someone is in error, we correct with gentleness, not condemnation. In my walk with God, I’ve learned that He speaks in varying tones, sometimes thunderous, sometimes whispering, but always with love. He meets us where we are, whether we are bold like Peter, broken like David, or waiting in silence like Mary. And in every case, He calls us not only to truth, but to grace.
I believe every person who confesses Jesus as Lord and believes in His resurrection is made whole. That includes you, and it includes me. Even if we express that faith through different traditions, Christ is not divided. He is One, and we are one in Him.

I thank God for your zeal. I pray that your heart continues to soften, not in its beliefs, but in its capacity to listen, to love, and to see Christ in others. And I ask that you see the same in me. For truly, wherever two or more gather in His name, (even in different voices or tones) He is among them. This is our shared calling, and our eternal hope.
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
3,342
1,533
113
#14
I want to begin by acknowledging and truly appreciating your boldness in sharing the Gospel. I can see that your heart burns for the Lord and you are deeply committed to devoting your life to honor Him and live by His Word. Such strong conviction is not only rare but so very precious. I see in you a man who hungers for righteousness and walks alongside Christ. I too am a believer in the immaculate healing power of Jesus Christ. I believe his sacrifice is final and his mercy whole and complete. Through him alone we have access to the Father and through Him our hearts are transformed. God wants to draw people to Him, never push them away. When a heart turns to God, whether in praise, in pain, in confusion, or longing, can that truly be dismissed by the One who searches hearts and welcomes the contrite? So, when a soul, even with imperfect words or misunderstood theology, turns in faith toward the Living God, seeking His glory and mercy, can we not trust that the Holy Spirit intercedes “with groanings too deep for words” (Romans 8:26)?
For Catholics, prayers like the Hail Mary are never about bypassing Christ, but about drawing nearer to Him with the help of those who are already radiant in His presence. For Protestants, a direct plea to Jesus is the heart of devotion. For both, the orientation is the same: Godward. Christ-centered. Spirit-led.

Now, with that being said I am more than happy to analyze this further.

1.The chapter opens with this...

“I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people…” (1 Timothy 2:1)

This verse explicitly encourages intercession, that is, praying on behalf of others. Paul is urging the Christian community to actively participate in intercessory prayer, especially for leaders and those in authority, so that society may live in peace and godliness.
This verse affirms that Jesus is the sole mediator of redemption, the one who reconciles humanity to God through His sacrifice. But it doesn’t cancel out the earlier call for believers to intercede for one another. In fact, it assumes that we do. So, the passage distinguishes between Christ’s unique role as Redeemer and the shared role of believers in intercessory prayer.


2. “Contact with the dead is necromancy.”
Necromancy is condemned in Scripture (Deuteronomy 18:10–12), but asking saints to pray for us is not necromancy. Catholics don’t summon spirits, seek secret knowledge, or experiment with clairvoyance, they believe in the “cloud of witnesses” (Hebrews 12:1) and that those in Christ are not dead, but alive with Him. Jesus Himself said, “He is not the God of the dead, but of the living” (Luke 20:38).


Also, as Jesus said in John 11:25–26, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die…”


Mary is not dead, but fully alive in the presence of God, body and soul. Her life didn’t end in separation, but in glorification. That’s why Catholics refer to her as “the Blessed Virgin Mary”, not out of superstition, but as a recognition of her ongoing presence within the Communion of Saints. Eternal life in Christ is not "death" but fullness of life. So, when we speak of Mary’s Assumption or ask for her intercession, we’re not turning from Christ--we’re turning with her toward Him. We’re saying: “Pray with me, Mother, as I seek your Son.” Think of it like this: if you ask a friend to pray for you, are you denying Christ’s role? No! You're inviting others to join you in prayer. That’s how Catholics view Mary’s intercession: not as competition with Christ, but as participation in His love.

5. “Cherry pick? Maybe they should to learn the truth.”
Catholics would say the opposite: they aim to embrace the whole of Scripture, not just isolated verses. The liturgy cycles through nearly the entire Bible over three years. The Catholic Church doesn’t avoid hard passages ever, it wrestles with them, studies them, and prays through them.

6. “You are lost in your beliefs.”
That’s a strong statement, and I know it comes from concern. But remember truth and love must walk together. 2 Timothy 2:24–25 reminds us that “the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.” If we believe someone is in error, we correct with gentleness, not condemnation. In my walk with God, I’ve learned that He speaks in varying tones, sometimes thunderous, sometimes whispering, but always with love. He meets us where we are, whether we are bold like Peter, broken like David, or waiting in silence like Mary. And in every case, He calls us not only to truth, but to grace.
I believe every person who confesses Jesus as Lord and believes in His resurrection is made whole. That includes you, and it includes me. Even if we express that faith through different traditions, Christ is not divided. He is One, and we are one in Him.

I thank God for your zeal. I pray that your heart continues to soften, not in its beliefs, but in its capacity to listen, to love, and to see Christ in others. And I ask that you see the same in me. For truly, wherever two or more gather in His name, (even in different voices or tones) He is among them. This is our shared calling, and our eternal hope.
you are kind with your words & i appreciate that. thank you for the compliments. we definitely aren't connecting here. all those verses i showed you & you still believe mary is an intercessor & that she is a virgin. if you are referring to mary being a virgin after Jesus was born, that's incorrect. Jesus had brothers & sisters. the definition of a saint is a born again Christian! why don't catholics pray directly to Jesus? many of the verses i posted are verses proving mary is NOT an intercessor & she has NO POWER. how many other dead people do catholics pray to & who are they? the catholic hierarchy has labeled people saints as in kateri tekawitha. God forbids praying to people, doesn't do any good. it looks like your Bible is that of a catholic Bible. God negates that: 2nd Peter 1:20, 21 & 2nd Timothy 3:16 & 17 plus Proverbs 30:6!
 

Hui1

Active member
Jun 13, 2023
257
80
28
41
#16
[Hui1,post:5525698,member:324295]你很勇敢。上帝保佑你
😊
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
3,342
1,533
113
#17
This is someone else, but makes a good point.
I was raised Roman Catholic and love Catholics. This is how we all get saved, Catholic or not. Continue listening because the first guy doesn't explain from Scriptures clearly.


informative. good teaching explanation. Romans 10:9 & 13 plus Ephesians 2: 8, 9, 10- "for ye are saved by grace thru faith & that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, AND NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN BOAST........"!