Torture

[Scotth1960]

what???

we go by civilian casualty numbers?
japan had already surrendered.
and those were CATHOLIC cities.
pearl harbour was A FALSE FLAG just like stupid 9-11.

stop the propaganda scott - it's the worst of all choices. jonathan is right.

~

We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, "Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." I suppose we all thought that one way or another.

-J. Robert Oppenheimer

Julius Robert Oppenheimer[note 1] (April 22, 1904 – February 18, 1967)[1] was an American theoretical physicist and professor of physics at the University of California, Berkeley. He is often called the "father of the atomic bomb" for his role in the Manhattan Project, the World War II project that developed the first nuclear weapons.[2] The first atomic bomb was detonated on July 16, 1945 in the Trinity test in New Mexico; Oppenheimer remarked later that it brought to mind words from the Bhagavad Gita: "Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."[note 2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Robert_Oppenheimer

Zone, You don't have the right to use the American flag if you blame America for 9/11.
You still deny that any Muslims did 9/11, and holding Muslims responsible for what they did is not okay in your book; but you do hold Americans responsible for everything they do, while excusing the behavior of the Muslim terrorists in 9/11/01. If your rhetoric is not liberal, anti-American propaganda, what is it?
God bless America.
In Erie PA Scott H.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Yes... yes... I'm glad God doesn't hold things against us as much as we hold against others.

I'm also liking this, "Remember the Maine, to hell with Spain!" atitude.

 

[zone]

Zone, You don't have the right to use the American flag if you blame America for 9/11.
You still deny that any Muslims did 9/11, and holding Muslims responsible for what they did is not okay in your book; but you do hold Americans responsible for everything they do, while excusing the behavior of the Muslim terrorists in 9/11/01. If your rhetoric is not liberal, anti-American propaganda, what is it?
God bless America.
In Erie PA Scott H.

your dialectic is revolting.
arabs didn't do it. they're currently ON THE LIST FOR EXTERMINATION. 'AMALEK'.

Trotskyites in your gov't (and mine, and britain) together with Israel did it.
your BIG FAT DOG BEING WAGGED BY THE LITTLE TAIL AND YOU CHEER IT ON.

for what?

ZIONISM. which you know is heresy.

you claim the name of Christ, and you DELIBERATLEY suppress the truth in UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.

and eventually it will be YOU.

all those millions dead NEEDED JESUS CHRIST SCOTT.
but no, YOU WILL DO THE WILL OF THE KHAZARS EVEN WHEN YOU KNOW THE TRUTH.



if 19 (NINETEEN) MUSLIM TERRORISTS DID 9-11 (THEY DIDN'T), why are MILLIONS dying in 7 illegal wars in the MIDDLE EAST over 10 years, SCOTT?


Matthew 5
The Sermon on the Mount
1Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him.
The Beatitudes

2And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:

3“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4“Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5“Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sonsa of God.
10“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11“Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.


i'm outta here.
good luck

 

[Scotth1960]

your dialectic is revolting.
arabs didn't do it. they're currently ON THE LIST FOR EXTERMINATION. 'AMALEK'.

Trotskyites in your gov't (and mine, and britain) together with Israel did it.
your BIG FAT DOG BEING WAGGED BY THE LITTLE TAIL AND YOU CHEER IT ON.

for what?

ZIONISM. which you know is heresy.

you claim the name of Christ, and you DELIBERATLEY suppress the truth in UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.

and eventually it will be YOU.

all those millions dead NEEDED JESUS CHRIST SCOTT.
but no, YOU WILL DO THE WILL OF THE KHAZARS EVEN WHEN YOU KNOW THE TRUTH.



if 19 (NINETEEN) MUSLIM TERRORISTS DID 9-11 (THEY DIDN'T), why are MILLIONS dying in 7 illegal wars in the MIDDLE EAST over 10 years, SCOTT?


Matthew 5
The Sermon on the Mount
1Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him.
The Beatitudes

2And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:

3“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4“Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5“Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sonsa of God.
10“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11“Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.


i'm outta here.
good luck[

Dear zone, You are totally illogical! What does holding the 19 Muslim terrorists responsible for the almost 3,000 people they murdered, have to do with "Zionism"? I am not a Zionist. You know that I am not a Zionist, or you should know, if you have been reading all of the threads. I have read all or most of your threads, and I realize you are Reformed, Amillennial, Covenant and therefore non-Dispensationalist and non-Zionist. I am a non-Zionist too. And Amillennial.
God bless you. I am not doing the will of the Khazars. That would be like saying you are doing the will of Muhammad, of the Muslims. Terror in the name of Islam is not justified.
In Erie Scott H.

 

[Scotth1960]

your dialectic is revolting.
arabs didn't do it. they're currently ON THE LIST FOR EXTERMINATION. 'AMALEK'.

Trotskyites in your gov't (and mine, and britain) together with Israel did it.
your BIG FAT DOG BEING WAGGED BY THE LITTLE TAIL AND YOU CHEER IT ON.

for what?

ZIONISM. which you know is heresy.

you claim the name of Christ, and you DELIBERATLEY suppress the truth in UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.

and eventually it will be YOU.

all those millions dead NEEDED JESUS CHRIST SCOTT.
but no, YOU WILL DO THE WILL OF THE KHAZARS EVEN WHEN YOU KNOW THE TRUTH.



if 19 (NINETEEN) MUSLIM TERRORISTS DID 9-11 (THEY DIDN'T),
Okay, Zone, you who know everything about 9/11/01. If it wasn't Muslims who did 9/11, then who did?
Scott H. PS Can you prove the people who did 9/11/01 were not Muslims?


why are MILLIONS dying in 7 illegal wars in the MIDDLE EAST over 10 years, SCOTT?


Matthew 5
The Sermon on the Mount
1Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him.
The Beatitudes

2And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:

3“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4“Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5“Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sonsa of God.
10“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11“Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.


i'm outta here.
good luck[

 

[duewell]

it is wrong to use violence over someone to achieve the results you want. subject A has planted a bomb, coerce subject A to find bomb. subject B does not agree with our government, kill subject B citizens until there is compliance. subject C does not share my religious beliefs, enforce compliance. why not line up the family of subject ABC and use them as incentive during the torture. water boarding, drugging, sleep deprivation, starvation,electric shocks, the rack, crucifixion. does it matter what you are using to coerce with. its still wrong regardless of what your end objective is. most people look at this as a good vs evil argument. of who is good and who is evil, or what can we do to stop evil people from hurting other good people. if your country is being invaded, would you capture the invaders and torture them as a way to get their government to stop the invasion? during wartime this has happened. do we condone this when it is used against "our" good people? then we should not condone this against "their" evil people.

as christians we should always ask what would Jesus do. from what i read he would not condone it. sometimes i think i will be held accountable for paying my taxes to a government that does condone it. i ask this. in the end times christians will be punished and persecuted for their beliefs. any who willingly take the mark of the beast will be damned. what if this kind of treatment is used on us to coerce us? would we find it acceptable then? will we be strong enough for such ordeals? everyone has a breaking point and can eventually be made to comply. at least in the past they had the decency to kill someone. the victim could at least hope for the release death would provide as an escape. with technology such abuse could go on for years. break their legs in 4 different places. set the bones. give them antibiotics. the legs are finally healed. break them again. if anything it sounds like hell.

we shouldn't make government laws to allow this. the law could one day be applied to us. torture in any form is excruciating. if it wasn't, it wouldn't bring about compliance. the word it self comes from crucify. the scourging and crucifixion of Jesus was done for what reason again? non compliant behavior and teachings to the then current administration and religious authorities. but now Christians would condone this against others? really? seriously? if a society can condone this for someone who taught peace and love while healing the sick and raising the dead. it most certainly will condone it for someone who is evil, while calling their self a Christian... i weep with the irony of it all.

inevitably someone will bring up the world war two argument of the prison camps and using violence to stop such atrocities. that is a much more difficult situation to address, but still runs along the same lines. if our neighbor is hungry we should feed them. if our neighbor is cold we should shelter them. if our neighbor is being tortured and killed, we should help them. but we do not invade and capture the enemy and then set up our own prison camps to coerce the enemy to stop by imitating their behavior. this makes us no different than them. by doing so we inevitably become what our enemy is. the circle of violence would continue.evil met with evil creates more evil. it is this exact kind of chaos and evil everything christianity is against. it is what sets us apart from the enemy. we seek peace and love with willing coexistence with each other. you cant comply that kind of behavior. you can only lead by example and hope they will follow.

to finally drive this point home to any who may disagree, i simply say this. tell me what you feel is acceptable torture. i will use only those things you find acceptable as torture on you until you agree that it isn't acceptable. you might think you can use such things to save lives.if you do, you will be damning your own life. things take on a different perspective when its you. would you feel its acceptable if you were the one who had to inflict it on another. if someone said if you don't kill that person we will kill you, would you do it? would you defend yourself by saying you were just following orders? many germans who ran the camps thought of themselves as Christians.does any Christian today think those who took part of it were?

if you think torture is acceptable in certain situations, i have some news for you, you are not a Christian. you might lie to yourself about such things. you will not be able to lie to Jesus about such things. is their any justification for sinning? nope. should we condone other peoples sins? nope. should we enable someone to sin and condone their behavior in our name? nope. evil has many compelling arguments, rational explanations and a very pretty face. be wary of those who would accept such teachings.

Duewell
how many fingers do you see? three or four.

 

[Strangelove]

Dear zone, You are totally illogical! What does holding the 19 Muslim terrorists responsible for the almost 3,000 people they murdered, have to do with "Zionism"? I am not a Zionist. You know that I am not a Zionist, or you should know, if you have been reading all of the threads. I have read all or most of your threads, and I realize you are Reformed, Amillennial, Covenant and therefore non-Dispensationalist and non-Zionist. I am a non-Zionist too. And Amillennial.
God bless you. I am not doing the will of the Khazars. That would be like saying you are doing the will of Muhammad, of the Muslims. Terror in the name of Islam is not justified.
In Erie Scott H.

Scott STOP DELETING THE BOTTOM QUOTE CODE that looks like this:

[/quote]

And supporting the US in their illegal wars in the middle east is totally zionist.

All US foreign policy is geared towards supporting the zionist state of israel.

 

[Strangelove]

Okay, Zone, you who know everything about 9/11/01. If it wasn't Muslims who did 9/11, then who did?
Scott H. PS Can you prove the people who did 9/11/01 were not Muslims?

Can you prove they WERE muslims more importantly?

Can you prove you can use the quote feature after many years of using forums?

 

[Consumed]

Don't forget what JAPAN did at PEARL HARBOR! The Japanese people should have risen up and overthrown their fascist government!
The Japanese people were hardly totally innocent!
If it's okay to hold the South culpable for slavery in America, they it is perfectly okay to hold the Japanese people culpable for what the Japanese military did at Pearl Harbor!

Scotty, 1800s the US sent a battleship, USS lousianna I think, anyway Japan was a closed society to the world, they parked the ship in the harbour, open the gun flaps, loaded the canons, sent a delegation to the emporer of the day, with the option "trade and open your borders or suffer the consequences."
Pearl Harbour, by then Japan had been given the raw end of the trade deal and returned the initial courtesy in kind, sad as it is, just part of politics, innocent always suffer.

I grew up admiring America as a child, when I was old enough to understand and see that America talks democracy, freedom and liberty for all and seen how bad they treat their own citizens, man what a evil country of leaders there is there.

 

[Scotth1960]

Scott STOP DELETING THE BOTTOM QUOTE CODE that looks like this:

And supporting the US in their illegal wars in the middle east is totally zionist.

All US foreign policy is geared towards supporting the zionist state of israel.[/quote]
How do you know their wars are "illegal"? By what authority do you sit in judgment over that?
If it is wrong for Jews to have their own land, should you not then support Hitler's "final solution"?
I agree that it would be better if Israel had separation of church and state like America does. Then no one religion could control the holy land. But even in America, where there is separation of church and state, the majority of people in US government hold to some form of Christian faith.
Why do you keep changing your flag/nationality? Isn't that an "illegal one world" philosophy?
Do you believe supporting the US is wrong? Do you agree with the Muslims: "America is the great satan"? Your rhetoric agrees with Islam, not Christianity.

 

[Scotth1960]

Scotty, 1800s the US sent a battleship, USS lousianna I think, anyway Japan was a closed society to the world, they parked the ship in the harbour, open the gun flaps, loaded the canons, sent a delegation to the emporer of the day, with the option "trade and open your borders or suffer the consequences."
Pearl Harbour, by then Japan had been given the raw end of the trade deal and returned the initial courtesy in kind, sad as it is, just part of politics, innocent always suffer.

I grew up admiring America as a child, when I was old enough to understand and see that America talks democracy, freedom and liberty for all and seen how bad they treat their own citizens, man what a evil country of leaders there is there.

So, the nation you live in now is better than America, has more freedom, more opportunity, less persecution of Christians? In America, we don't have wars like in Lebanon and in Israel. We didn't have war here until 9/11/01. We don't have Zionism here in America. Zionism is in Israel. We don't have Islam here as in Islamic countries. We have freedom of religion. Many countries didn't have that. Remember what happened in the Soviet Union. Remember how things are in North Korea and in China today. If America is so bad and so evil, according to you, perhaps you would rather live in North Korea, in Iran, or in Communist China. I don't understand why so many people bash America. The main thing that was wrong in America was racism/slavery, and we had a civil war to get rid of that. But racism existed in other countries, not just in America. And there is racism in Sudan, where the Northern Muslims are racist against the Southern Christians.

 

[Scotth1960]

Can you prove they WERE muslims more importantly?

Can you prove you can use the quote feature after many years of using forums?

They were Muslims. It is obvious. Can you prove that Muhammad was a Muslim? How would you know if you were'nt there. But the 19 terrorist came from Muslim countries. Muslims live mainly in Muslim nations. So, if it comes from a Muslim nation, it is very likely to be Muslim. Are you, then, saying the 19 terrorists were Christians? Can you prove they were Christians?
It doesn't matter whether or not I delete the word quote. You are making something out of nothing. A lot like you are making yourself being represented as Peter Sellers. That's much ado about nothing. Not that Peter Sellers wasn't a funny man. It's just illogical what you're using as a image of yourself.
I'm an American, so I'm not ashamed of having the American flag as an image representing what I am.

 

[Strangelove]

How do you know their wars are "illegal"? By what authority do you sit in judgment over that?

I dont need any authority to judge that fact. I only need eyes and ears.

Did we find WMD's Scotty? Why are we still in Iraq?

If it is wrong for Jews to have their own land, should you not then support Hitler's "final solution"?

Oh really Scott. Just awful. Saying the 'jews' dont need to murder daily to preserve they're own land and saying they all need to be exterminated is hardly the same thing.

This kind of rhetoric is not entirely surprising from you but still......awful Scotty.

I agree that it would be better if Israel had separation of church and state like America does. Then no one religion could control the holy land. But even in America, where there is separation of church and state, the majority of people in US government hold to some form of Christian faith.

'Some form'? Lolz.....erm....professing Christianity means nothing, and the Jewish lobbys are the most powerful in Washington...and all American foreign policy is geared toward supporting Israel.

Why do you keep changing your flag/nationality? Isn't that an "illegal one world" philosophy?

*yawn*

Do you believe supporting the US is wrong?

Yes its called nationalism. Its a form of idolatry. But your used to stuff like that so prolly wouldn't notice.

We are to respect the basic civil laws of the land. Supporting foreign policy including illegal wars is beyond the duties of real Christians

Do you agree with the Muslims: "America is the great satan"? Your rhetoric agrees with Islam, not Christianity.

Erm...no....satan is satan. I have no interest in what muslims think or say is satan.

America is in the grip of satan as is the rest of the world. He is the god of this world. My rhetoric agrees with scripture and reality.

Your rhetoric is a product of mindwashing. It disgusts me. Examine yourself.

 

[Strangelove]

So, the nation you live in now is better than America, has more freedom, more opportunity, less persecution of Christians? In America, we don't have wars like in Lebanon and in Israel. We didn't have war here until 9/11/01. We don't have Zionism here in America. Zionism is in Israel. We don't have Islam here as in Islamic countries. We have freedom of religion. Many countries didn't have that. Remember what happened in the Soviet Union. Remember how things are in North Korea and in China today. If America is so bad and so evil, according to you, perhaps you would rather live in North Korea, in Iran, or in Communist China. I don't understand why so many people bash America. The main thing that was wrong in America was racism/slavery, and we had a civil war to get rid of that. But racism existed in other countries, not just in America. And there is racism in Sudan, where the Northern Muslims are racist against the Southern Christians.

[/size]

Not much sense in there at all.

"We didn't have war here until 9/11/01. We don't have Zionism here in America."

 

[Strangelove]

They were Muslims. It is obvious.

Is that your proof?

 

[Consumed]

So, the nation you live in now is better than America, has more freedom, more opportunity, less persecution of Christians? In America, we don't have wars like in Lebanon and in Israel. We didn't have war here until 9/11/01. We don't have Zionism here in America. Zionism is in Israel. We don't have Islam here as in Islamic countries. We have freedom of religion. Many countries didn't have that. Remember what happened in the Soviet Union. Remember how things are in North Korea and in China today. If America is so bad and so evil, according to you, perhaps you would rather live in North Korea, in Iran, or in Communist China. I don't understand why so many people bash America. The main thing that was wrong in America was racism/slavery, and we had a civil war to get rid of that. But racism existed in other countries, not just in America. And there is racism in Sudan, where the Northern Muslims are racist against the Southern Christians.

[/SIZE]

Scotty sorry if I offended you, sounds like I have. Brother I'm no patriot to even my own country, my flag (banner) is Christ and Christ alone.
We live in a power hungry greedy cursed filled world.
But really don't try make out America is the beacon of the world, who's leading the veto over Palestine becoming a member state at the UN. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out where all the issues last 50yrs with mid east are over.
Sticks and stones vs US military supplied hardware, yep sounds like a fair fight.
Let's talk Bahrain, Yemen shall we, where's the US/UN stand on that, non existant freedom democracy liberty, egypt?? Mubarak US puppet dictator? No??
US foriegn policy is good for business, no 1 export for America is weapons industry, has been for years, arms them then shoots them when they flex their muscles. Vietnam?? Shall we look there?? Panama?? El Salvador?? Afghanastan?? Iraq??Guetamala?? Haiti?? Shall we continue??
Brother just calling it as it's obvious to see when the rose colored glasses aren't on.

My country is like most, 1% of the population control the wealth, and it's suppose to a "commonwealth" lolz

Try emigrating to Israel if your not Jewish, rasicm?? No can't say that I'll get locked up.
Bless you scotty, my point to start with when I first posted on this thread is blood is not just poportioned to one side, there's always more than the "history" of the victors tell us.