Another View Of Jesus Christ?

[MobileChapel]

What do you mean, if?

‘if’ means we do not know, whether Jesus used the fishermen‘s boats or not in His ministry? We do not know, if Jesus rented the boats or purchased the boats, that He used?
And we do not know, if the boats belonged to other followers or supporters of Jesus?

 

[Magenta]

‘if’ means we do not know, whether Jesus used the fishermen‘s boats or not in His ministry? We do not know, if Jesus rented the boats or purchased the boats, that He used?
And we do not know, if the boats belonged to other followers or supporters of Jesus?

Scripture explicitly states that Jesus did use the boats of His followers.

Of the occasions in mind perhaps Luke 5:1-11 is most clear on this point ~ Jesus asked Peter to push his boat out from the shore
so He could teach the crowd. Later, after the miracle catch of fish, the disciples' boats were filled to the point of sinking.

And there is no reason to assume when they were in a boat together that it was not a boat belonging to one of His disciples.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

[/QUOTE]

I say ------Jesus was A Carpenter's Son and would have been able to build Himself a home ---and He lived with His Parents who had a Home and I suspect that Jesus would have inherited the home from His Parents as well as His other brothers ----

So Jesus had a Home ---Folks ----Jesus had a place to Hang His head ---and when Jesus was Preaching on the Road He had influential wealthy People following Him on His journeys and funding His Ministry ------


Luke 8:1-3

Easy-to-Read Version

The Group With Jesus
8 The next day, Jesus traveled through some cities and small towns. Jesus told the people a message from God, the Good News about God’s kingdom. The twelve apostles were with him.

2 There were also some women with him. Jesus had healed these women of sicknesses and evil spirits. One of them was Mary, who was called Magdalene. Seven demons had come out of her.

3 Also with these women were Joanna, the wife of Chuza (the manager of Herod’s property), Susanna, and many other women. These women used their own money to help Jesus and his apostles.

Also ---there was a Disciple of Jesus who was wealthy -----

Matthew 27:57 (ESV)
57 When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who also was a disciple of Jesus.

I say ------So do you not think these people had friends and relatives that Jesus and all who were with Him would have had a place to stay on their travels to preach the Gospel -----

Jesus at times did have to dust off His feet and carry on to the next place when He was rejected in a town --so He did have to stay outside at times ---but not all the time as people have used this Piece of Scripture to say Jesus was poor and a vagabond---

i think most importantly how we view and feel about money and how God views it is at the crux

Things like this for a believer go into our hearts and it doesn’t come out until it affects change

““No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.”

The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus.

He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your hearts. What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:13-15‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Some of Jesus discuples did have some money we don’t really know exactly how much or anything but they used thier money for the advancement of the gospel and not on thoer own personal desires and wants needs surely but selfishness is the issue not how much money we have gained it’s a matter of how we treat it and use it can be used for gods purposes or our own selfish ones

money is important to people but to God it means nothing it should get to be like that for us also whether we have a lot or a little contentment is the goal and money isnt the path to contentment Jesus is

Infact our desire for money to become rich and wealthy we’re earned about how it can destroy us and bring manifold temptations with it and lead astray

Our hearts should have this warnings echoe

“But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. ( can’t take it with us )But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that.


Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭6:6-10‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Again money isnt evil or having it doesn’t mean anything bad it’s about how we treat it when we have it . Do we use our means to help people ? Or just ourselves ? Why do we want the money ? How much do we really care about the kk ey and possessions ? More than the man needing food on the corner ? More than the single mother at our church who struggles to make it month to month ?

Money can be a real blessing and vehicle to share gods blessings and actually tangibly help people who really are struggling in his name but it can also become too important to us and corrupt our heart and mind

 

[birdie]

Jesus is sometimes portrayed as a destitute wanderer or even homeless person, who had nothing and no place to call home? But do the scriptures support this depiction?

The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham….. - Matthew 1:1-16

Within the bloodline or genealogy of Jesus, were more than a dozen kings and other prominent Biblical figures. So, as a descendant of greatness and wealth, was Jesus really a nobody with nothing , in the material sense?
And among the ancestors of Jesus, were Abraham ( Genesis 13:2 ) and King Solomon ( 2 Chronicles 9:13 ), who were extremely rich, which raises the question, as to whether, some of the wealth was passed down or trickled down to Jesus, from the many kings and other well-to-do people in His bloodline? Could Jesus have been less well-off, given the wealth and greatness of His descendants?

An angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take you, Mary your wife..”. - Matthew 1:20

Why did the angel address Joseph, the earthly father of Jesus by connecting him to the great king David? Why did the angel, find it necessary to remind Joseph of his royal bloodline?

And She brought forth her firstborn Son, and wrapped Him in swaddling cloths, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn - Luke 2:7

Was Jesus born in a manger because His parents were poor or was it because there was no room at the inn or hotel? And if the parents of Jesus had the resources to stay at the inn or hotel, what does that say about their economic status? Did everyone have the resources to stay at the inn or hotel, in those days?
Even in our time, does everyone have the means to stay in a hotel, motel or inn?

And after entering the house, they saw the child with Mary His mother…… opening their treasure chests, they presented to Him gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh - Matthew 2:11

What did the parents of Jesus do with these gifts of high value? Did they just keep the gifts or did they convert them into money and invested into something profitable? And how many people, in those days were fortunate enough to have high value products like gold? Did the parents of Jesus use the high value items for themselves or did they save them for their Son Jesus, to use when He grew up?

Foxes have holes and birds have nests, but the Son of man has nowhere to lay His head - Matthew 8:20

Was Jesus really, saying that He did not have a home or was He saying that He was always traveling and never in one place permanently, like foxes go back to their holes and birds go back to their nests everyday?

But He was in the stern, asleep on a pillow - Mark 4:38

If Jesus was asleep in a boat, with His head resting on a pillow, did He really have nowhere to lay His head? How many destitute people can be comfortably asleep in a boat, while other people operate the boat? Is this a picture of poverty or of someone with no resources? Did Jesus own or rent the boat?

And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled, which was spoken by the prophets, ‘He shall be called a Nazarene’ - Matthew 2:23

If Joseph, Mary and young Jesus lived in Nazareth, did they have a house there or did they just hang out in the streets? And if the prophets foretold, that Jesus would be a Nazarene or a resident of Nazareth, we’re they talking about someone, who would not have a home in Nazareth?
Also, when the wisemen visited Jesus in a house, whose house was that?

So when they had performed all things, according to the law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own city, Nazareth - Luke 2:39

Did Jesus and His parents return to their own city, Nazareth, but did not have a house there?

On the third day, there was a wedding, in Cana of Galilee…… both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding…. - John 2:1-2

Is it common for people with little or nothing to give, being invited to a wedding? And do destitute people normally dress up and attend social events, like weddings?

He chose twelve, whom He also named apostles - Luke 6:13

How did Jesus convince twelve men, to abandon their businesses and professions, plus long absences from their families, to join His traveling ministry, if He had no resources to make up for their sacrifice?

Jesus saw a tax collector named Levi, sitting at the tax office. And He said to him, “Follow me” - Luke 5:27

And how did the tax collector give up his profession, without a similar or better offer from Jesus? Do people usually give up the source of their livelihood, without anything in return?

He saw James and John his brother… mending their nets…. He called to them…. they left their father Zebedee in the boat with the hired servants and went after Him - Mark 1:19-20

How many poor people have hired servants or employees? And how could anyone with little or nothing, attract businessmen to leave their business and join him?
These men weren’t just fishing for pleasure, they were professional fishermen, running a business with hired help or employees.

Luke the beloved physician and Demas greet you… - Colossians 4:14

And once again, how did Jesus convince Luke, a medical doctor by profession to abandon his practice and follow Him? How many regular people are able to influence professionals and business people, to leave their careers and join the poor?
Why did Jesus seek professionals and business people, when He could get regular people much easier?

He was in the boat. There were also other boats with Him - Mark 4:36

Do regular people travel in a boat , accompanied or escorted by other boats?

But one of His disciples, Judas said, “why was this fragrance oil not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor - John 12:1-5

Why would Judas talk about giving to the poor, if Jesus and His disciples were poor themselves?

… he was a thief and had the money box, and he used to take what was put in it - John 12:6

If Jesus had very little financially, why did He need Judas to watch over or handle His finances? And if Jesus didn’t have much financially, why was Judas confident that he could steal some and not be detected?

When they had crucified Him, they divided His clothes by casting lots - Matthew 27:35

Why did the Roman soldiers want His clothes, after crucifying Jesus, if the clothes were ordinary or of low value? Do people usually cast lots, when regular people die, to see who will get their clothes or garments?

Thanks to you and to Magenta for your thoughts on the subject of Jesus' provision.

If I might take a second to mention what, to my mind, seems to be the meaning of the following verse: "And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. "

This scripture is first talking about those who are unsaved (foxes). Herod was called a fox, and The Song of Songs calls little foxes those that spoil the vines. We remember that Jesus called himself the vine. Conversely, 'birds of the air' are those who are saved. In the parable of the kingdom of heaven, the kingdom is like a plant that grows from a small seed to become great, and to lodge the birds of the air in its branches. Birds of the air are a picture of the true believers of heaven. Air, incidentally, is a word denoting heaven. So, birds have a place, a nest if you will, in heaven. The only reason that a place is provided for the believers in heaven is because Jesus came from heaven to go to the cross. The cross was not really a place to lay his head, I suppose. Incidentally, the holes which the foxes had was likely a picture of the pit, or the unsaved condition.

 

[Gideon300]

Yes, I looked up Mark 2:15, and discovered that "Levi's" is in italics. So we are not really told whose house it was. But (and again, I may be wrong) we are not told when Joseph died, nor are we told that Joseph was an "owner-occupier", as we would call it today. We do know that Joseph lived in Nazareth, so the house, whether or not he owned it would have been there. Nazareth is not on the coast, but Mark 2 says:

“13 ¶ Then He went out again by the sea; and all the multitude came to Him, and He taught them. 14 As He passed by, He saw Levi the son]of Alphaeus sitting at the tax office. And He said to him, “Follow Me.” So he arose and followed Him.” (Mr 2:13-14 NKJV)

So that would seem to suggest that the house, who ever it belonged to, was not what had once been Joseph's house in Nazareth.

I agree that it's is not a case of riches are bad, poverty is good. Thanks for your posts - they make me think!

Part of my thinking is based on the culture of the time. Most sons followed the occupation of the father, so it is more than likely that Joseph was a builder. Would a builder not build his own home?

I appreciate your comments. I I hope I don't come across as dogmatic about things the Bible does not make clear. What is important is truth and the principles that follow from truth.

 

[MobileChapel]

Scripture explicitly states that Jesus did use the boats of His followers.

Of the occasions in mind perhaps Luke 5:1-11 is most clear on this point ~ Jesus asked Peter to push his boat out from the shore
so He could teach the crowd. Later, after the miracle catch of fish, the disciples' boats were filled to the point of sinking.

And there is no reason to assume when they were in a boat together that it was not a boat belonging to one of His disciples.

The scripture you have cited talks about Jesus using one of the fishermen’s boats for preaching and not for traveling?
I’m not aware of any scripture, that specifically says, Jesus used any fisherman’s boat for travel? Since the Bible is not clear on this, you can only guess and your guess is as good as anyone’s!

 

[Magenta]

‘if’ means we do not know, whether Jesus used the fishermen‘s boats or not in His ministry? We do not know, if Jesus rented the boats or purchased the boats, that He used?
And we do not know, if the boats belonged to other followers or supporters of Jesus?

The scripture you have cited talks about Jesus using one of the fishermen’s boats for preaching and not for traveling?
I’m not aware of any scripture, that specifically says, Jesus used any fisherman’s boat for travel? Since the Bible is not clear on this, you can only guess and your guess is as good as anyone’s!

You have moved the goalposts. First your wrong assertion was we do not know if Jesus used the fisherman's boats in His ministry.

When I showed with Scripture how He actually did, now you change it to, did He use their boats to travel?

Moving the goalposts is somewhat dishonest. It is also a logical fallacy.

I guess you have trouble admitting the truth.

My guess is better than yours.

That has already been established.

 

[Doll]

The idea of a poverty stricken Jesus comes from the early days of the life of Jesus. The offering His parents made at the temple was something that the poor would do. We know very little of His life before He went public with His ministry. Jesus was not just a woodworker. Carpenters in those days were builders who worked with stone as well.

Jesus owned His home. Did He sell it to fund the work? Perhaps. He was traveling a lot, so maybe He did not need a home. He had sandals. Poor people went barefoot. I don't think we should read too much into this. The "prosperity" gospel pushes this point of view. It ignores the warnings about the deceitfulness of riches, and

"Those who want to be rich, however, fall into temptation and become ensnared by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction." 1 Timothy 6:9.

I don't think Jesus had to worry about being ensnared. He was born without a sin nature.

 

[Leastofall]

I don't think Jesus had to worry about being ensnared. He was born without a sin nature.

He was tempted yet without sin is that what your saying?

 

[Leastofall]

‘if’ means we do not know, whether Jesus used the fishermen‘s boats or not in His ministry? We do not know, if Jesus rented the boats or purchased the boats, that He used?
And we do not know, if the boats belonged to other followers or supporters of Jesus?

Simon Peter was a fishermen that's how he made a living i believe the boats were his and his brother working for there father.

 

[Leastofall]

Remembering the wise men at his birth and the gifts they gave could of been sufficient enough to support the new family until his ministry began, or at least helped with the support income that Joseph made as a carpenter. Jesus possibly learned the trade from Joseph and possibly brought income in as well. All speculative.

 

[Magenta]

Thanks to you and to Magenta for your thoughts on the subject of Jesus' provision.

If I might take a second to mention what, to my mind, seems to be the meaning of the following verse: "And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. "

This scripture is first talking about those who are unsaved (foxes). Herod was called a fox, and The Song of Songs calls little foxes those that spoil the vines. We remember that Jesus called himself the vine. Conversely, 'birds of the air' are those who are saved. In the parable of the kingdom of heaven, the kingdom is like a plant that grows from a small seed to become great, and to lodge the birds of the air in its branches. Birds of the air are a picture of the true believers of heaven. Air, incidentally, is a word denoting heaven. So, birds have a place, a nest if you will, in heaven. The only reason that a place is provided for the believers in heaven is because Jesus came from heaven to go to the cross. The cross was not really a place to lay his head, I suppose. Incidentally, the holes which the foxes had was likely a picture of the pit, or the unsaved condition.

You are welcome. Birds of the air do sometimes symbolize God's care and provision, and they represent
negative forces that seek to hinder spiritual growth and understanding, also, such as in these verses:

Matthew 13:4, 19 (Parable of the Sower):
The "birds of the air" are depicted as snatching away the seed (representing God's Word) that falls on the path.

Mark 4:4, 15
Jesus identifies these birds with Satan, who snatches away the Word sown in some people's hearts.

Luke 8:5, 12:
Similarly, Luke links the birds with the devil, who takes away the word from their hearts.

 

[studier]

The idea of a poverty stricken Jesus comes from the early days of the life of Jesus. The offering His parents made at the temple was something that the poor would do. We know very little of His life before He went public with His ministry. Jesus was not just a woodworker. Carpenters in those days were builders who worked with stone as well.

Jesus owned His home. Did He sell it to fund the work? Perhaps. He was traveling a lot, so maybe He did not need a home. He had sandals. Poor people went barefoot. I don't think we should read too much into this. The "prosperity" gospel pushes this point of view. It ignores the warnings about the deceitfulness of riches, and

"Those who want to be rich, however, fall into temptation and become ensnared by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction." 1 Timothy 6:9.

See Luke5:29 re: the house.

 

[MobileChapel]

You have moved the goalposts. First your wrong assertion was we do not know if Jesus used the fisherman's boats in His ministry.

When I showed with Scripture how He actually did, now you change it to, did He use their boats to travel?

Moving the goalposts is somewhat dishonest. It is also a logical fallacy.

I guess you have trouble admitting the truth.

My guess is better than yours.

That has already been established.

I did not move any goal posts! Standing in a boat to preach for a while is not the same as using the boat to travel.
The Bible does not tell us, which boats or whose boat Jesus used for traveling.

 

[Ouch]

I don't mean to be rude in anyway but his word tells us what he wanted us to see.

John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

I really think JESUS would want us to focus on what come out of his mouth then what was in his pockets.

He came for our souls and this is what he said.

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

[Magenta]

I did not move any goal posts! Standing in a boat to preach for a while is not the same as using the boat to travel.
The Bible does not tell us, which boats or whose boat Jesus used for traveling.

Travel was not what you asked about at first and I even showed you the posts in question, and now
you deny saying what you did? You are even more dishonest than I would have thought of you at first.

It is pointless trying to discuss anything with people who refuse to admit the things they have said.

If some of the fishermen used their own boats for the ministry, that would require even more compensation from Jesus?

 

[MobileChapel]

Travel was not what you asked about at first and I even showed you the posts in question, and now
you deny saying what you did? You are even more dishonest than I would have thought of you at first.

It is pointless trying to discuss anything with people who refuse to admit the things they have said.

You are entitled to your opinions and conclusions, however without solid basis. I said, ‘If some of the fishermen used their own boats….’ I did not say, ‘some of the fishermen used their own boats…’. The key word is ‘If’ . My statement was speculative and not definitive. They may have or they may not have used their own boats, we just are not told clearly in any scripture.
You are free to believe, whatever you wish, that’s your choice.

 

[Magenta]

You are entitled to your opinions and conclusions, however without solid basis. I said, ‘If some of the fishermen used their own boats….’ I did not say, ‘some of the fishermen used their own boats…’. The key word is ‘If’ . My statement was speculative and not definitive. They may have or they may not have used their own boats, we just are not told clearly in any scripture.
You are free to believe, whatever you wish, that’s your choice.

Yes, I highlighted your "if" by asking about it. You seem to have a very very very short memory.

Travel was still not what you asked about at first. Only whether the boats were used for ministry.

You need to re-read this thread. It is not very long. Maybe it will help you stop lying.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

‘if’ means we do not know, whether Jesus used the fishermen‘s boats or not in His ministry? We do not know, if Jesus rented the boats or purchased the boats, that He used?
And we do not know, if the boats belonged to other followers or supporters of Jesus?

Why does money have to be involved? Have you never borrowed something from someone?

 

[Suze]

If some of the fishermen used their own boats for the ministry, that would require even more compensation from Jesus?

Do u not remember the great draught of fishes the disciples brought in ? What do think that was about ? Or what Jesus said to his disciples at the well in Samaria ?