Scripture's meaning of God's Elect

[Pilgrimshope]

So many people misunderstand what it means that God is no respecter of persons. For some reason people conflate this doctrine to mean that God treats everyone equally. This notion is easily dismissed, as scripture and history readily show this is not the case.
So what does it mean? If we look at Deuteronomy 7, God explains what He means in the choosing of Israel. In verse 7, God makes it plain that He did not choose Israel because of anything that was true of them. In verse 8, He makes it just as plain that He chose solely on the basis of what is true of Him. Hence, God not being a respecter of persons has nothing to do with God's equal treatment of people; it is concerned with how God chooses as He does. That is, God chooses sovereignly and without regard to what is true of people.

“So many people misunderstand what it means that God is no respecter of persons. For some reason people conflate this doctrine to mean that God treats everyone equally”

typically this is your move to explain a single verse taken from what’s said let’s look at what Paul’s saying here when that’s mentioned and see what it actually meant

“Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-11‬ ‭KJV‬

pauls actually saying everyone will be judged the same way and then concludes by saying “ for there is no respect of persons with god “

your move is almost always to remove the context of what he’s saying this part

God Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, “


So you always end up contrary to what’s being said it’s all based on how you alone define verses after they are removed from the context of what’s plainly and clearly being said Paul’s whole point there is that everyone is going to be treated the exact same way at judgement.

abut you don’t ever seem to want to talk about what Paul’s saying just take the verses that show your position to be wrong and then redefine what they “ really mean “

Can you acknowledge what Paul’s actually saying there ? Rather than explain the concluding verse to jot mean what it means ? He’s clearly making the point “ everyone is going to be judged the same for there is no respect of persons to God “

you changing the final verse doesn’t change what Paul’s saying

God Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, “

thats the ort you can’t accept because it shows that your position isn’t accurate at all but changing the part where he says “ for there is no respect of persons to God “ doesn’t at all erase what Paul’s saying there .

It means the same thing here when Peter said it which also is a problem for some

“Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The whole point of the statement is to say he’s going to treat and judge everyone the same . You just reject the rest of what he’s been saying leading to that point so you have to redefine it

 

[Magenta]

He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Romans 8 verses 1-2; 5 verse 57 + 58b

 

[GWH]

So many people misunderstand what it means that God is no respecter of persons. For some reason people conflate this doctrine to mean that God treats everyone equally. This notion is easily dismissed, as scripture and history readily show this is not the case.
So what does it mean? If we look at Deuteronomy 7, God explains what He means in the choosing of Israel. In verse 7, God makes it plain that He did not choose Israel because of anything that was true of them. In verse 8, He makes it just as plain that He chose solely on the basis of what is true of Him. Hence, God not being a respecter of persons has nothing to do with God's equal treatment of people; it is concerned with how God chooses as He does. That is, God chooses sovereignly and without regard to what is true of people.

How about looking at the relevant NT passages?! (Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17)

 

[BillyBob]

I cannot see any Christian as making a valid point to say God is unfair. Unbelievers saying it is a different matter altogether.

So true! The main reason for the Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard.....

 

[Magenta]

So true! The main reason for the Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard.....

For some reason I am reminded of a person when they asked me if heart circumcision was by magic or obedience.
Of course introducing magic into the equation was a snide move but also made clear they believed obedience
comes first even though the unregenerated heart is said to be incapable of submitting to God's law. So the
whole Spiritual aspect of what God is doing and how He works in our lives is often misunderstood. And now
in another thread it was remarked that the term "natural man" is only used once in Scripture as if that somehow
should nullify everything that is said of the unregenerated person! Nehemiah has been gone a long time.
I still chuckle to think how he would say sleep was a metaphor for wakeful awareness. The things people say!

 

[Cameron143]

“So many people misunderstand what it means that God is no respecter of persons. For some reason people conflate this doctrine to mean that God treats everyone equally”

typically this is your move to explain a single verse taken from what’s said let’s look at what Paul’s saying here when that’s mentioned and see what it actually meant

“Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-11‬ ‭KJV‬

pauls actually saying everyone will be judged the same way and then concludes by saying “ for there is no respect of persons with god “

your move is almost always to remove the context of what he’s saying this part

God Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, “


So you always end up contrary to what’s being said it’s all based on how you alone define verses after they are removed from the context of what’s plainly and clearly being said Paul’s whole point there is that everyone is going to be treated the exact same way at judgement.

abut you don’t ever seem to want to talk about what Paul’s saying just take the verses that show your position to be wrong and then redefine what they “ really mean “

Can you acknowledge what Paul’s actually saying there ? Rather than explain the concluding verse to jot mean what it means ? He’s clearly making the point “ everyone is going to be judged the same for there is no respect of persons to God “

you changing the final verse doesn’t change what Paul’s saying

God Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, “

thats the ort you can’t accept because it shows that your position isn’t accurate at all but changing the part where he says “ for there is no respect of persons to God “ doesn’t at all erase what Paul’s saying there .

It means the same thing here when Peter said it which also is a problem for some

“Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The whole point of the statement is to say he’s going to treat and judge everyone the same . You just reject the rest of what he’s been saying leading to that point so you have to redefine it

In this particular instance, God not being a respecter of persons does mean that He deals out judgment based on what is true of individuals and not haphazardly or willy-nilly. But it is still God who set the terms of reward or punishment based on what is true of Him: His righteousness, His justice. So the reward or punishment may reflect the actions of individuals, but the basis for God acting still lies within God Himself; what is true of Him. That people get the same reward or punishment does not negate God acting sovereignly according to what is true of Him.
We find this language again in Acts 10 in the conversion of Cornelius. God saving a household of Gentiles leads Peter to the same conclusion as Paul...that God is no respecter of persons. In other words, God is not simply saving Jews, but also saving Gentiles. If God was not saving Jews on the basis of what is true of them, is He now saving Gentiles on the basis of what is true of them? Or, is God sovereignly deciding to set His affections upon Gentiles in the same manner He did with the Jews?

 

[Cameron143]

How about looking at the relevant NT passages?! (Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17)

So, what is incorrect in what I shared? How did God come to choose the nation Israel?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

In this particular instance, God not being a respecter of persons does mean that He deals out judgment based on what is true of individuals and not haphazardly or willy-nilly. But it is still God who set the terms of reward or punishment based on what is true of Him: His righteousness, His justice. So the reward or punishment may reflect the actions of individuals, but the basis for God acting still lies within God Himself; what is true of Him. That people get the same reward or punishment does not negate God acting sovereignly according to what is true of Him.
We find this language again in Acts 10 in the conversion of Cornelius. God saving a household of Gentiles leads Peter to the same conclusion as Paul...that God is no respecter of persons. In other words, God is not simply saving Jews, but also saving Gentiles. If God was not saving Jews on the basis of what is true of them, is He now saving Gentiles on the basis of what is true of them? Or, is God sovereignly deciding to set His affections upon Gentiles in the same manner He did with the Jews?

Can you acknowledge what Paul’s saying?

“God Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; ( Jew and gentile means every human ) but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile everyone else ) for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

can you acknowledge “ what Paul is saying “ there as true ?

 

[BillyBob]

So many people misunderstand what it means that God is no respecter of persons. For some reason people conflate this doctrine to mean that God treats everyone equally. This notion is easily dismissed, as scripture and history readily show this is not the case.
So what does it mean? If we look at Deuteronomy 7, God explains what He means in the choosing of Israel. In verse 7, God makes it plain that He did not choose Israel because of anything that was true of them. In verse 8, He makes it just as plain that He chose solely on the basis of what is true of Him. Hence, God not being a respecter of persons has nothing to do with God's equal treatment of people; it is concerned with how God chooses as He does. That is, God chooses sovereignly and without regard to what is true of people.

I agree but I can also understand the difficulty when it comes to understanding the mind of God, especially since our mind seems to think along totally different lines.
When we are told that God brings blessings to some and not to others, our first thought is “That's not fair”.
However, we must try to understand that when God brings blessings to some, it is not done because He is a respecter of them over others, it is because it is His good pleasure and beyond our understanding.

There is no group of people who are more worthy of His mercy than others. We all fall short!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Romans 8 verses 1-2; 5 verse 57 + 58b

Indeed

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭

 

[lrs68]

Indeed

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭

It's amazing how people interpret Scripture.

It's like using Romans 8:28-30.

Reformed claims it's specific people singularly hand picked by God whom He foreknew, then predestined, then eventually become sanctified.

In reality, Paul is talking about the Hebrews of the Old Testament now have become saved through the work of Jesus Christ.

But that false belief has no limits to twisting Scripture to fit personal doctrine.

 

[Cameron143]

Can you acknowledge what Paul’s saying?

“God Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; ( Jew and gentile means every human ) but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile everyone else ) for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

can you acknowledge “ what Paul is saying “ there as true ?

Everything in the Bible is true. Everyone will be rendered according to their deeds. But do you notice that when Paul speaks of God not being a respecter of persons that this phrase comes directly after a reference to Jews and Gentiles. And do you understand the Jewish mindset that the Jews believed that because of their race, they had a special place with God and looked upon every other race with disdain? And that they believed they were better than every other race and that God favored them because of what was true of them? That's why I went to Deuteronomy 7. God didn't choose Israel because they were special in any way. They were actually the smallest and weakest of people, trapped in slavery, and without hope. And God is clear why He chose them: simply because He decided to love them. God's choosing was done without respect to them. And this is what it means that God is no respecter of persons. He acts sovereignly. And this is what Paul is teaching in Romans 2 and what Peter discovers is true concerning the Gentiles in Acts 10. That God renders to every man according to his deeds is absolutely true. That God moves sovereignly without respect to what is true of people is equally true.

 

[Cameron143]

It's amazing how people interpret Scripture.

It's like using Romans 8:28-30.

Reformed claims it's specific people singularly hand picked by God whom He foreknew, then predestined, then eventually become sanctified.

In reality, Paul is talking about the Hebrews of the Old Testament now have become saved through the work of Jesus Christ.

But that false belief has no limits to twisting Scripture to fit personal doctrine.

To "whom" indicates individuals and not what God simply foreknew would be true of them. It specifies who and not what.

 

[lrs68]

To "whom" indicates individuals and not what God simply foreknew would be true of them. It specifies who and not what.

That's because you ignore verse 28 that explains who whom is, those who love God like the Hebrews and Jews did before that day Paul wrote Romans.

 

[Magenta]

Everything in the Bible is true. Everyone will be rendered according to their deeds. But do you notice that when Paul speaks of God not being a respecter of persons that this phrase comes directly after a reference to Jews and Gentiles. And do you understand the Jewish mindset that the Jews believed that because of their race, they had a special place with God and looked upon every other race with disdain? And that they believed they were better than every other race and that God favored them because of what was true of them? That's why I went to Deuteronomy 7. God didn't choose Israel because they were special in any way. They were actually the smallest and weakest of people, trapped in slavery, and without hope. And God is clear why He chose them: simply because He decided to love them. God's choosing was done without respect to them. And this is what it means that God is no respecter of persons. He acts sovereignly. And this is what Paul is teaching in Romans 2 and what Peter discovers is true concerning the Gentiles in Acts 10. That God renders to every man according to his deeds is absolutely true. That God moves sovereignly without respect to what is true of people is equally true.

Thank you for another excellent explanation!

 

[Magenta]

That's because you ignore verse 28 that explains who whom is, those who love God like the Hebrews and Jews did before that day Paul wrote Romans.

You need to start your own comedy thread...

You could specify that it is only for those whose thinking and reasoning abilities have been activated.

 

[Magenta]

I agree but I can also understand the difficulty when it comes to understanding the mind of God, especially since our mind seems to think along totally different lines.
When we are told that God brings blessings to some and not to others, our first thought is “That's not fair”.
However, we must try to understand that when God brings blessings to some, it is not done because He is a respecter of them over others, it is because it is His good pleasure and beyond our understanding.

There is no group of people who are more worthy of His mercy than others. We all fall short!

“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. Mark ch. 10 verse 18 and Luke ch. 18 verse 19 “There is only One who is good.” Matthew ch. 19 verse 17b. There is no one who does good. fr Psalm ch. 14. There is no one righteous, not even one. Romans ch. 3 verse 10. They are corrupt; their ways are vile. There is no one who does good. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. fr Psalm ch. 53 verses 1-3. Surely there is no righteous man on earth who does good and never sins. Ecclesiastes ch. 7 verse 20. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

 

[lrs68]

You need to start your own comedy thread...

You could specify that it is only for those whose thinking and reasoning abilities have been activated.

Would God have foreknew Moses when Paul wrote Romans?

Would God sanctify Moses and save Him through Jesus?

Everything mentioned in verse 29-30 can relate directly to the Hebrew and Jewish people.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It's amazing how people interpret Scripture.

It's like using Romans 8:28-30.

Reformed claims it's specific people singularly hand picked by God whom He foreknew, then predestined, then eventually become sanctified.

In reality, Paul is talking about the Hebrews of the Old Testament now have become saved through the work of Jesus Christ.

But that false belief has no limits to twisting Scripture to fit personal doctrine.

Yeah I think if we would just read and believe what’s already there because the apostles were his chosen witnesses filled with his spirit ….rather than taking a sentance out of what’s really being said and re inventing a definition to fit our own thoughts we would do much better it’s already revealed and written plainly all the things we wonder and argue about are laid out plainly and concisely but we pluck a verse here and there then create doctrine based on a sentance rather that the doctrine we plucked the sentence from

 

[lrs68]

Yeah I think if we would just read and believe what’s already there because the apostles were his chosen witnesses filled with his spirit ….rather than taking a sentance out of what’s really being said and re inventing a definition to fit our own thoughts we would do much better it’s already revealed and written plainly all the things we wonder and argue about are laid out plainly and concisely but we pluck a verse here and there then create doctrine based on a sentance rather that the doctrine we plucked the sentence from

Also, the Disciples before Jesus arrived were the chosen Jews already and would have been saved either way.

But when Jesus showed up He chose them to continue His work.

The Disciples were chosen no matter what by being Jews and to continue the work of Jesus.