Christian mysticism?

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Cameron143 said:
One is contentment with the circumstances of life. The other is an active pursuit of God. I didn't distinguish the two; God did.
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No, you are interpreting "in" to mean "with", when it means "despite",
and you are the one divorcing the obvious reason Paul was content--
because of his relationship with God!

Anyway, congenial disagreement is okay, although agreement is better/good.
 
GWH said:
No, you are interpreting "in" to mean "with", when it means "despite",
and you are the one divorcing the obvious reason Paul was content--
because of his relationship with God!

Anyway, congenial disagreement is okay, although agreement is better/good.
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While I agree that Paul is content because of his relationship with God, contentment doesn't mean one is not to continually strive in our relationship with God. Paul clearly says he has not achieved or apprehended all there is to be achieved in a relationship with God. So he presses forward to the high mark of his calling in Christ Jesus. While you are content to be in relationship with God, you are also content not to press forward to your highest calling as per your own words. I suggested to you that there is more to experience as a Christian than you have come to know. You responded that you were content in your relationship with God as is. That's why I responded that your contentment is admirable concerning circumstances, but sad relationally. But don't worry. God will continue to will and do in you to bring you to relational maturity.
 
Cameron143 said:
While I agree that Paul is content because of his relationship with God, contentment doesn't mean one is not to continually strive in our relationship with God. Paul clearly says he has not achieved or apprehended all there is to be achieved in a relationship with God. So he presses forward to the high mark of his calling in Christ Jesus. While you are content to be in relationship with God, you are also content not to press forward to your highest calling as per your own words. I suggested to you that there is more to experience as a Christian than you have come to know. You responded that you were content in your relationship with God as is. That's why I responded that your contentment is admirable concerning circumstances, but sad relationally. But don't worry. God will continue to will and do in you to bring you to relational maturity.
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No, I responded regarding contentment with Paul in mind (Phil. 4:11-12),
and I agree that we should always want to learn more of GW (Matt. 4:4, Eph. 4:11-15).
 
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IMO contemplative meditation, being still, etc that is anchored to the holy spirit's witness with scripture is godly and spiritually edifying. Without that anchor, simply knowing God through mystical experience is IMO a gateway drug to gnosticism and other errant beliefs. Knowing God is loving others because that is who he is, but knowing God just through mystical experience is gnosis, the act of knowing.

G1108 γνῶσις gnosis (gnō'-sis) n.
1. knowing (the act).
 
Blain said:
So I came across this term recently and I have never heard of it before so I did a google search on it and it says this

It involves practices and theological understandings aimed at preparing the individual for, and facilitating, an intimate encounter with the divine. This encounter is often described as a union with God, characterized by divine love and presence, but within the framework of maintaining a distinction between the Creator and the created.
Further explanations say.....
Core Concepts:
Practices:
  • So unless I am mistaken it seems to be a more personal and interactive form of Christianity
  • which to me is what it should be in general anyways a intimate personal and interactive relationship but maybe I am not understanding it does anyone have any insight on this?
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Works, do not get anyone in with God. Belief to God that does not stop as in Job, the book of jod, who went through many troubles, would not deny God, stood in belief to God over the troubles he went through, I love the last chapter after Job not denying God. Heck, how are we all doing in, belief to God alone? Why are we having to add to What is done by God for us all in Son as risen where new life to abide in Faith is given us? God alone completed me, anyone else?
Will we deny God over troubles? I think not for me at least. I see to not deny God, even if I do not get good things here on earth before I die, anyone else? seeing, desires to have now are a crippler to many a souls. Wanting flesh to live and not have anxiety ever again, and so, people do wrong here to get and end up not safe, not seeing self playing God in having esoteric knowledge by others told to us to get us saved and yet still be lost in trust, Father's love and mercy given us by Son to do sincerely and not expect rewards, since by God in risen Son we are given everything needed to have life everlasting after leaving here, is not that good enough? as in Micah 6:7-8

Micah 6:7-8

Authorized (King James) Version

7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams,
or with ten thousands of rivers of oil?
shall I give my firstborn for my transgression,
the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good;
and what doth the Lord require of thee,
but to do justly, and to love mercy,
and to walk humbly with thy God?
 
There ought to be drawn a clear difinitive line between
"Meditating on God through his word, spirit, and the fundamental truths of his creation"
and
"Partaking in cabalistic rites and teachings which have nothing to do with what's preached in the bible"

It bothers me that phrases like mystic and gnostic can be culturally applied to both of these, but the ladder is simply a worthless slide straight into hell.
 
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Or it is an ascended thinking, elevated thought. You know, the essence of the embodiment of metanoia. Like, 'lifting up your eyes' and seeing.
 
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Mem said:
Or it is an ascended thinking, elevated thought. You know, the essence of the embodiment of metanoia. Like, 'lifting up your eyes' and seeing.
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There seems to be a division on what it is, like I said before I think the word mystic is a trigger for people but if you do your research you find that the term Christian mystic is nothing like what the opposing views say it is.

People already have their minds set on what it is even those who are for it but upon doing my own research on it I cannot find anything unbiblical about it. those who are against it have already made up their minds as to what it is and I don't see that changing any time soon.
 
Mem said:
Or it is an ascended thinking, elevated thought. You know, the essence of the embodiment of metanoia. Like, 'lifting up your eyes' and seeing.
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That sounds very gnostic. Metanoia means to change one's mind (repent), whereas the gnostics changed its meaning to mean always maintaining focus on one's identity as an enlightened spirit being.
 
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AI, what does metanoia mean to a gnostic?

"In Gnosticism, metanoia refers to a profound change in thinking and perception that leads to a transformation in one's understanding of the divine and oneself. It emphasizes a shift from ignorance to knowledge, aligning with the Gnostic pursuit of spiritual awakening and enlightenment. "
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
That sounds very gnostic. Metanoia means to change one's mind (repent), whereas the gnostics changed its meaning to mean always maintaining focus on one's identity as an enlightened spirit being.
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My understanding of metanoia is informed by the roots "beyond"* and "thinking."
*Coincidentally, a very recent look at the word "with" shows the Greek 'meta'

Blain said:
There seems to be a division on what it is, like I said before I think the word mystic is a trigger for people but if you do your research you find that the term Christian mystic is nothing like what the opposing views say it is.

People already have their minds set on what it is even those who are for it but upon doing my own research on it I cannot find anything unbiblical about it. those who are against it have already made up their minds as to what it is and I don't see that changing any time soon.
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The same reasoning used would lead to designating Moses as a magician because he was pitted against the Pharoah's magicians.
 
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Mem said:
My understanding of metanoia is informed by the roots "beyond"* and "thinking."
*Coincidentally, a very recent look at the word "with" shows the Greek 'meta'
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Skimming through the threads, I just realized the prevalence a related concept, 'paranoia,' posing as metanoia. :unsure:
 
HealthAndHappiness said:
The verse that comes to mind my friend is Beware, lest any man spoil you with philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after the rudiments of the world and not after Christ.
Colossians 2:8

Since before I was born, there's been a growing movement that I was introduced to.
When I was a boy, my older sister had a sign on her bedroom door, "Do Not Disturb. Meditating"

This spurred my curiosity so I asked her what that was?
She told me how she does it and it starts with repeating her mantra over and over again.
I asked her what that was?
"Oh, I can't tell you. It's not permitted to tell anyone my mantra. It's a secret".

This only made me more curious.
After getting Mom's permission, She invited me to her TM Transcendental Meditation group that was led by disciples of the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He popularized Meditation in the Western countries.

Spirits brought famous celebrities to connect with the Yogi and spread his philosophy and practice of meditation throughout the rest of the world.
Meditation was already a standard practice throughout the continents of Asia and India.
Why?
Meditation is the essential practice for "summoning gods" in the Hindu, Buddhist and other polytheistic religions.

I was taught at the series of classes that meditation was a scientific, "self help"* practice with a number of practical health benefits.
They couched the classes in technical terms while using a lot of metaphysical metaphors.
This makes it ideal for promoting it through modern medicine since they both have that in common. People are persuaded that they are both scientifically based and have their application in reliable truth based results. They respect western gurus called physicians, who are unwittingly disciples of one of the wealthiest families in the world. This family established their religion in medical colleges. They mix some truth with lies and the outcome is the love for money and incredible wealth.

Since the West utterly trusts their Gurus of the metaphysical world of medicine and science so called, the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi was told by his spirit guide that he should return to America and promote TM in such a manner and with similar scientific, health care terminology.

The scores of Indian gurus who moved to the USA to spread Hinduism were rejected because of our Biblical Christian Baptist influences.
They did not become wealthy gaining followers, so they returned to India. When Maharishi did so, his spirit guide taught him how to become financially successful.
Guess what?
It worked!
The Maharishi's TM became the standard practice that gave the example for Hinduism "Christian" Mysticism all over the christianized world.

The guru started thousands of satellite groups, his own university, was embassador of Hinduism to major celebrities and political leaders. He got a scientific study or two published and persuaded the AMA and all the medical colleges to promote it. Now the medical colleges throughout the West and their outgoing MDs are trained with Hinduism to inoculate their patients against Jesus Christ.
You will have a hard time finding a Dr tell you that is what happened, but that's the magic of this integrative religion. It adapted to the West and persuaded it was a good healthy option.
This is a perfect marriage with their Christless religion of science falsely so called, "health care". Chemicals/ drugs/ pharmakeia are not healing nutrients.
In regards to the practice of SO MUCH of modern medicine that people trust, more than the Almighty Creator of scientific laws and health.


Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: 21Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

Jesus Himself created us and designed us to receive of Him through creation, that which brings lasting health. Yet people are foolishly decided by stupid UN-"scientific" studies that chemicals are the solution, that meditations are the solutions.

God the Holy Spirit gave His Word to think about, to meditate upon!
Satanic demons like the one represented in the work of art above tell us to empty our minds and chant vain repetitions of demonic names.
I identify as the warrior, because I actually am one, holding the sword of the Spirit in hand cleaving usunder through his joints and marrow. I hate the devils of India that have been summoned to the shores of America!
Many of us have loved ones who became victims of the damned demons and I will continue to fight them until the Lord returns and casts them into the pit of Hell!

Back to the adolescent period of my personal experience with Meditation.
As the program progressed, we were groomed to take part in an elite initiation, that promised to make us healthier and better than others.
At the completion of the series, over a period of many weeks, the night had come for the initiation and completion of the Transcendental program.
We were to be given our own special mantra in the back room that had a sign. No entry was allowed. I thought it might be the office where money was kept.
Everything in the school was dead silent. Nobody was speaking ...out loud.
I was led by the hand by one of the teachers, much to my surprise to the door where entry was strictly forbidden. It was a mystery.
What was beyond in this forbidden area off limits to students?
Why did we have to go back here to receive the special word that we were told to never tell anyone, not even our parents?

As I entered, it was dark, expecting the teacher to turn on the light. It was lit only by candles placed close to objects upon the counters surrounding the room. My eyes needed time to adjust to the darkness. Smoke of Incense streamed up from the objects displayed eerily upon their platforms.
Around the dark chamber were statues that I did not want to look directly upon. I could not believe my eyes as I wondered why the teacher was teaching a science and this seemed so surreal.
I was led by the hand to one of the objects and told to kneel down on my knees before it for a secret ceremony.
It was a terrifying image with grotesque features like out of an H.P. Lovecraft story.
My teacher led me to begin the meditation. She told me that secret word to speak out loud over and over again for several minutes. Then I was to continue the word silently, bowing before the monstrous idol.
After the religious ceremony, I was released to return home.
That shook me so badly that I never returned. Nor could I speak if this to my parents.

The twisted horror of that encounter compelled me to look up the word at a later date. My research resulted in finding a record of the words used as mantras. Surprisingly, it was from Sanskrit, a dead written language of the Hindu religion, their bibles.

I discovered the word that I was given to chant repeatedly was the name of a demon!
I was taught how to summon a demon to become possessed and controlled.

This is Hinduism rebranded for westerners, called "christian" mysticism.
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The sometimes abuse of a tool or skill does not make the tool or skill something that should be eschewed entirely. The wise approach is to understand the pros and cons of the tool and to lern to use it constructively. The analytical and reasoning side of the mind ca be just as easily abused and bring us into bondage to lying spirits. But that does not mean we should abandon all reason and analysis in our pursuit of God.
 
Blain said:
From what it sounds like what you found with them is not Christian at all it seems more like hindu or something like that.
A christian mystic meditates on his word and meditates in their prayer life seeking the divine influence and spiritual depth with God seeking to get to know him personally as if meeting him face to face.

What you describe sounds demonic in every sense of the word
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IMO, the way many Calvinists and others use their proof-text verses, throwing them out there without providing any of their own personal exegetical reasoning and analysis drawn from them, but merely cutting and pasting other persons' writings on them, is not unlike the use of mantras to arrest the mind from wandering into unfavoured territory.
 
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If Christian mysticism is gnostic or is frowned aupon then can we not test it with the word of God? If it is unbiblical we should be able to debunk it with scripture
 
PaulThomson said:
The sometimes abuse of a tool or skill does not make the tool or skill something that should be eschewed entirely. The wise approach is to understand the pros and cons of the tool and to lern to use it constructively. The analytical and reasoning side of the mind ca be just as easily abused and bring us into bondage to lying spirits. But that does not mean we should abandon all reason and analysis in our pursuit of God.
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Certainly many are in bondage to lying spirits through the misapplication and misunderstanding of scriptures.
My main point focussed upon a specific practice that I found to gain popularity in many churches.
It is often under the Emerging Church movement.

The tool of mediation as is used by the Eastern religions is a means of conjuring, of summoning the fallen spirits. It is opposed to the descriptions of Biblical meditation upon the Word. Deeply thinking upon that which is God's viewpoint is defined and altogether contradictory to that which is accepted by the Emerging church movement, the New Age, Yoga, and my personal experiences with a Taoist/ Buddhist/ Catholic teacher and Aunt as a teenager. This led to a lot of investigation.
That along with my hundreds of hours of study on the subject of meditation might not make me an expert. However, I am familiar with some of those tools.

Is there something that I lack from the Bible, where I must seek other means of spiritual discovery?
 
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HealthAndHappiness said:
Certainly many are in bondage to lying spirits through the misapplication and misunderstanding of scriptures.
My main point focussed upon a specific practice that I found to gain popularity in many churches.
It is often under the Emerging Church movement.

The tool of mediation as is used by the Eastern religions is a means of conjuring, of summoning the fallen spirits. It is opposed to the descriptions of Biblical meditation upon the Word. Deeply thinking upon that which is God's viewpoint is defined and altogether contradictory to that which is accepted by the Emerging church movement, the New Age, Yoga, and my personal experiences with a Taoist/ Buddhist/ Catholic teacher and Aunt as a teenager. This led to a lot of investigation.
That along with my hundreds of hours of study on the subject of meditation might not make me an expert. However, I am familiar with some of those tools.

Is there something that I lack from the Bible, where I must seek other means of spiritual discovery?
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It is not that you lack anything from the bible but the basis of Christian mysticism is to look at the word of God in a more spiritual lens. hacing communion and personal intimacy with the spirit, many read his word yet look at how his word is so often used to cherry pick or to take out of context. But if you look at it through the lens of the spirit there is only one interpretation one truth one divine voice in scripture not many and not taken out of context either.

This is what google says about how a Christian mystic studies the bible
Christian mystics approach the Bible with a focus on personal experience and contemplation, seeking to encounter God directly through the text. They often engage in practices like Lectio Divina, which involves slow, meditative reading and reflection on scripture, aiming to internalize its wisdom and foster a deeper relationship with God. This approach emphasizes subjective experience and spiritual transformation over purely intellectual understanding.
 
Blain said:
So from what I gather I would be considered a Christian mystic because I have a lot of personal spiritual experiences and encounters with God. I have felt his deep rich love many times have had visitations have met Jesus several times have had many powerful visions and dreams and love is the main most crucial thing in my faith and relationship with God.

U also have heard his laughter been in his arms several times had glimpses of heaven had spiritual weaning inside my soul and spiritual fasting inside my soul as well, I love to help others to but that is just my personality I don't think it has to do with anything else.
And on top of that I have a very close connection to the spirit's voice so if I am not mistaken that would make me a Christian mystic then correct? and some say it is to be avoided and is deceptive others speak highly of it so I wonder if I would be warned against it by Jesus or embrace it it?
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64 years mystic is not a word that ..ever came up. They say 'Christian mystics are Christians who seek a direct and personal experience of God, often through contemplation, prayer, and other spiritual practices. They aim for a deeper, more intimate relationship with the divine, sometimes described as union or oneness with God". This is from someone that believes all of the word of GOD and baptized in the holy Spirit but that word "mystic" was never attributed to Christian's. It seems GOOGLE AI as I posted above says it is. Gonna pass here

I have to say and my words mean nothing no one has to listen to me. I will be vague.. looking at allot being said here and there.... "who does it point to" I would have to say not Christ but self. Its what comes across. For me reading everything the holy Spirit said by Paul what shines.. I can't miss it. He never ever wants to be seen only Christ. These words from a song popped up.. So many questions I must ask myself today have I been a light in dark places left a smile on sad faces have I left a trace of Jesus behind.

This is just me but if they see me.. I have failed.
 
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