But God's word says that you cannot be a Christian if you do not have the Holy Spirit. Certainly there are people in the world who call themselves Christians who don't have the Holy Spirit, don't believe that Jesus is really alive, even some who don't believe in God. But calling themselves Christians doesn't make them Christians. I don't know any other posters here personally, so I don't know whether your assertion that "Christian Chat is overrun with them" is true. I pray that it isn't.