Acts 2:38 ca not be ignored..
- Thread starter Tara
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
Mahogany QUOTE: "I see baptism as a necessary work that shows our faith. But you always saved by faith from the moment you believe, not the moment you are baptised. Jesus was still the Son of God even though He wasn't baptised until later as an adult. So we too by faith are always sons of God even before we are baptised, even if we only get baptised years after becoming a christian. Given the opportunity why wouldnt a christian want to be baptised. It's not hard, it doesn't take long, ..unless you have the rare condition you are allergic to water, or have a severe phobia about drowning".
Baptism is an efficacious sign which in actuality effects what it symbolizes. The sprinkling, pouring orimmersion by water symbolizes that one dies with Christ and rises again. In actuality this is what happens to us. Because, Baptism is a sacrament through which God's grace flows to us through the living water and descending of the Holy Spirit. It is a sacrament of initiation into God's family. If one is an infant, then the parents or God- parents stand in proxy. Because we are initiated into God's family and our sins are remitted, it can be said that the sacrament saves us now, which the bible actually corroborates. It saves us in the sense that we are brought closer to God and become his adopted child. However, we must reaffirm this connection to God in our daily lives [if an infant, when we grow up] by the way we live our lives. If we fail to confirm our connection to God, the grace attenuates and we fall from grace [lose our justification].
All this is elementary Christian theology. If you believe baptism is a "work", then you have some praying and studying to do. If you believe you are saved at the moment you believe, then you are enthralled in a pagan cult. Such a belief has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity.
Baptism is an efficacious sign which in actuality effects what it symbolizes. The sprinkling, pouring orimmersion by water symbolizes that one dies with Christ and rises again. In actuality this is what happens to us. Because, Baptism is a sacrament through which God's grace flows to us through the living water and descending of the Holy Spirit. It is a sacrament of initiation into God's family. If one is an infant, then the parents or God- parents stand in proxy. Because we are initiated into God's family and our sins are remitted, it can be said that the sacrament saves us now, which the bible actually corroborates. It saves us in the sense that we are brought closer to God and become his adopted child. However, we must reaffirm this connection to God in our daily lives [if an infant, when we grow up] by the way we live our lives. If we fail to confirm our connection to God, the grace attenuates and we fall from grace [lose our justification].
All this is elementary Christian theology. If you believe baptism is a "work", then you have some praying and studying to do. If you believe you are saved at the moment you believe, then you are enthralled in a pagan cult. Such a belief has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity.
The fact is Eric I was saved the moment I believed. That was evidenced by my faith and my works.
Not when I was baptised about 10 years or so later.
If you can explain how an unbaptised, unsaved (as you claim) person can love God and others and turn from sin as I did, is not saved... go right ahead. But you'd be arguing your case with God who is my only judge, not you buddy.
Not when I was baptised about 10 years or so later.
If you can explain how an unbaptised, unsaved (as you claim) person can love God and others and turn from sin as I did, is not saved... go right ahead. But you'd be arguing your case with God who is my only judge, not you buddy.
-------------------------
No, I am stating my case TO YOU. What you love, and I accept you honestly believe you love God, your connection to the Lord is seriously attenuated by clouds of fundamental theological errors. Since you have a basically flawed understanding of how Justification and Salvation work, I fear you are not fully open to God's grace.
Again, I accept your description of turning away from a disordered life. Now, it is time to correctly order your understanding of God's Truth.
God Bless.
No, I am stating my case TO YOU. What you love, and I accept you honestly believe you love God, your connection to the Lord is seriously attenuated by clouds of fundamental theological errors. Since you have a basically flawed understanding of how Justification and Salvation work, I fear you are not fully open to God's grace.
Again, I accept your description of turning away from a disordered life. Now, it is time to correctly order your understanding of God's Truth.
God Bless.
Water baptism is a commandment of righteousness that every believer submits themselves to through obedience after salvation. Jesus Christ obeyed this commandment as a man to fulfill all righteousness. It had nothing to do with regeneration or the forgiveness of sins. The Holy Spirit, the blood of Christ and the incorruptible seed took care of that. Water baptism for the believer is an outward testimony (as some have said) and identification of the new life of being born again of the Spirit and the word (Jn 3:5, Eph 5:26) through the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Putting off of the old man and putting on the new man (Eph 4:24, Col 3:10). This outward act of obedience to the ordinance of baptism took place before God, before the angels (Lk 12:8, 1Tim 5:21; including the principalities and powers of the air Col 2:14,15) and before men. When Christ was baptized He was identifying with the new man through obedience by submitting Himself as a man to the ordinance of baptism.
THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION - When the Holy Spirit descended upon Christ during baptism, His Father was well pleased and He was being anointed and equipped outwardly. He already had power inwardly through the Holy Spirit that conceived Him, but the Father gave Him power outwardly for the ministry He would have before He was to be crucified (Is 61:1-3, Acts 10:38). This was for protection, for power, for preaching and for demonstration of His approval by the Father. At Pentecost the disciples tarried in the upper room until the Holy Spirit descended upon them (no water baptism mentioned here). This was a special endowment that was accompanied with many national tongues because of the people that were gathered from all nations under heaven. The disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit, which means that this special endowment that God gave was two-fold. The Holy Spirit that had been received and was within the disciples and the Holy Spirit from without that was issued from the throne of God above (Is 11:2, Rev 1:4). They were already filled by the indwelling Spirit and they were waiting for a special unction from God. The Holy Spirit that came upon them was the same Spirit that lived within them and filled them. Those that heard the word in their own language and Peter's message, repented, believed and were then baptized in Christ. If you read (Acts 2:42-47) you will see very clearly the fruit of what happened to these men that believed and were saved.
THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION - When the Holy Spirit descended upon Christ during baptism, His Father was well pleased and He was being anointed and equipped outwardly. He already had power inwardly through the Holy Spirit that conceived Him, but the Father gave Him power outwardly for the ministry He would have before He was to be crucified (Is 61:1-3, Acts 10:38). This was for protection, for power, for preaching and for demonstration of His approval by the Father. At Pentecost the disciples tarried in the upper room until the Holy Spirit descended upon them (no water baptism mentioned here). This was a special endowment that was accompanied with many national tongues because of the people that were gathered from all nations under heaven. The disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit, which means that this special endowment that God gave was two-fold. The Holy Spirit that had been received and was within the disciples and the Holy Spirit from without that was issued from the throne of God above (Is 11:2, Rev 1:4). They were already filled by the indwelling Spirit and they were waiting for a special unction from God. The Holy Spirit that came upon them was the same Spirit that lived within them and filled them. Those that heard the word in their own language and Peter's message, repented, believed and were then baptized in Christ. If you read (Acts 2:42-47) you will see very clearly the fruit of what happened to these men that believed and were saved.
Eric, my connection to the Father in Heaven (not the "Father" on earth, the Pope) is through Jesus Christ, and is not attenuated by anything. How about that, I experience God's grace fully through faith in Jesus Christ, and I don't even need Mother Mary. I let her rest in peace in heaven. She will be thanking me for not bombarding her with prayer requests, I am sure. 
. I know how justification and salvation work, because I was justified and saved the moment God gave me the Spirit and I believed, that was well before water baptism.
. I know how justification and salvation work, because I was justified and saved the moment God gave me the Spirit and I believed, that was well before water baptism.
Hello Eric51,
Might I suggest that of you are trying to demonstrate the theological correctness of your point of view, you should support and firmly base your statements in Scripture.
Sorry... too tired to offer any other comments at the moment
Might I suggest that of you are trying to demonstrate the theological correctness of your point of view, you should support and firmly base your statements in Scripture.
Sorry... too tired to offer any other comments at the moment
You can suggest it. However, while I frequently, as anyone who has read a number of my posts can attest, do extensively quote scripture, the belief that everything said or written about christian doctrine needs to refer to scriptural passages, is a modern-day HERESY which started with the protestant reformation [I use the word, Reformation, loosely].
The Church is the bedrock basis of all doctrinal orthodoxy. Even Scripture attests to that, as does 2000 years of Christian history.
Look at all of your protestant friends who mouth scripture continuously. They are hardly orthodox christians.
-----------------------------------------------------
You can suggest it. However, while I frequently, as anyone who has read a number of my posts can attest, do extensively quote scripture, the belief that everything said or written about christian doctrine needs to refer to scriptural passages, is a modern-day HERESY which started with the protestant reformation [I use the word, Reformation, loosely].
The Church is the bedrock basis of all doctrinal orthodoxy. Even Scripture attests to that, as does 2000 years of Christian history.
Look at all of your protestant friends who mouth scripture continuously. They are hardly orthodox christians.
You can suggest it. However, while I frequently, as anyone who has read a number of my posts can attest, do extensively quote scripture, the belief that everything said or written about christian doctrine needs to refer to scriptural passages, is a modern-day HERESY which started with the protestant reformation [I use the word, Reformation, loosely].
The Church is the bedrock basis of all doctrinal orthodoxy. Even Scripture attests to that, as does 2000 years of Christian history.
Look at all of your protestant friends who mouth scripture continuously. They are hardly orthodox christians.
Ac 1:5For John truly BAPTIZED with water; but ye shall be BAPTIZED with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
---------------------------------------------
People like [me]? Not quite. Modern heresy started with protestants excerpting passages from the bible and then imposing their own private judgment in interpreting those passages, oblivious to their context and indifferent to what the rest of the bible, and Sacred Traditions, says about the subject. You, not I, are the protestant.
I haven't posited any opinion about the baptism of John, so, I know not what you are implying. John did not perform christian baptisms. That is clear. He used water, but the Holy Spirit was not part of that process, and he did not invoke the members of the Trinity. That is the fundamental difference between his baptism and the Christian baptism.
SOME USEFUL SCRIPTURE QUOTES TO ARGUE AGAINST SOLA SCRIPTURA:
1 Cor 11:2 Saint Paul insists on his Apostolic Authority, not on a book: "Now I praise you, brethren, that in all things you are mindful of me and keep my ordinances as I have delivered them to you."
2nd Thess. 2:15 •"Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle. 2nd Thess 3:6 "And we charge you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition which they have received of us.
Acts 8:27-35 Saint Phillip asks the Ethiopian Eunuch, "Thinkest thou that thou understandest what thou readest?" and the Eunuch answered, "Howcan I lest someone show me?"
2nd Peter 3:16-17 Saint Peter warns people about reading Saint Paul's epistles! "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, brethren, knowing these things before, take heed, lest being led aside by the error of the unwise, you fall from your own steadfastness.
2nd Peter 1:20-21 "Understanding this first: That no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost."
1st Peter 1:25 "But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel hath been preached unto you."
Matthew 23:2-3 Jesus says to obey those in charge over religious matters: ".. .The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do..."
Matthew 28:18-20 Jesus commands many actions to His Apostles which cannot be in a book: "And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world".
Matthew 18:17 The authority of the Church: "And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
People like [me]? Not quite. Modern heresy started with protestants excerpting passages from the bible and then imposing their own private judgment in interpreting those passages, oblivious to their context and indifferent to what the rest of the bible, and Sacred Traditions, says about the subject. You, not I, are the protestant.
I haven't posited any opinion about the baptism of John, so, I know not what you are implying. John did not perform christian baptisms. That is clear. He used water, but the Holy Spirit was not part of that process, and he did not invoke the members of the Trinity. That is the fundamental difference between his baptism and the Christian baptism.
SOME USEFUL SCRIPTURE QUOTES TO ARGUE AGAINST SOLA SCRIPTURA:
1 Cor 11:2 Saint Paul insists on his Apostolic Authority, not on a book: "Now I praise you, brethren, that in all things you are mindful of me and keep my ordinances as I have delivered them to you."
2nd Thess. 2:15 •"Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle. 2nd Thess 3:6 "And we charge you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition which they have received of us.
Acts 8:27-35 Saint Phillip asks the Ethiopian Eunuch, "Thinkest thou that thou understandest what thou readest?" and the Eunuch answered, "Howcan I lest someone show me?"
2nd Peter 3:16-17 Saint Peter warns people about reading Saint Paul's epistles! "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, brethren, knowing these things before, take heed, lest being led aside by the error of the unwise, you fall from your own steadfastness.
2nd Peter 1:20-21 "Understanding this first: That no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost."
1st Peter 1:25 "But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel hath been preached unto you."
Matthew 23:2-3 Jesus says to obey those in charge over religious matters: ".. .The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do..."
Matthew 28:18-20 Jesus commands many actions to His Apostles which cannot be in a book: "And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world".
Matthew 18:17 The authority of the Church: "And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
sir once agian I say you can take one verse out of contents and make it say what ever you want it to say but there will be a judgement day, for example let me show others that they may be warned about your twisted gospel.
Matthew 18:17 The authority of the Church: "And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven
this your quote your last verse reference let me show the contents of this verse the authority of the Church only comes after an individual has exhausted all his means to straighten out one who has trepssed against Him You have taken it way out of contents every body in here watch this and take note He Didn't even use all the verse just the part he wanted us to read...
Mt 18:15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.Mt 18:16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.Mt 18:17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican.
this is dealing with restoring a brother to fellowship nothing about Church authority, how dare you sir.
A
I would like to say first and foremost I respect each and every individual's beliefs/belief systems.
However I would like to add my so-called 2 cents in as well. However I find it odd/somewhat funny that nobody has a problem with Acts 2:38 except for those in the religious community. What could you possibly hold against a verse/scripture in the Word of God? And if you what believe really is true, then this should not a pose a threat to you or your teachings/belief systems. I dare you to prove this wrong scripturally and I will gladly follow you. Getting on to the meat of the matter....
First of all I would like to emphasize that the repentance of sins, baptism in Jesus' name and the infilling of the Holy Ghost by manner of speaking in tongues is not just recommended or optional, it is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to salvation. Not only is this biblical, it is also a simple matter of obedience. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
We need salvation. We are sinners but God in his mercy, goodness and grace has provided us with a way of reconciliation unto him. (Sin separated us from God, with the fall of man via Adam and Eve thus requiring a reconciliation) Through baptism our sins are remitted- eradicated and completely expunged (this is the only way that this can occur). Through baptism in Jesus' name, we take on his name (as obvious as that may seem, I must reiterate) thus we become his children and his heirs. How are to invoke his name if we are not baptized in it? (This is a secondary however I did want to mention it).
Water in of itself has no saving power or virtue, rather it is symbolic/type and shadow. The simple fact is God chose it as a step to salvation and I choose to accept it at that. False doctrine revels in complexity, I do not have the time to waste to ponder or philosophize why, but that is not to be mistaken as taking everything at face value and being an ignorant follower.
More importantly, we need to put aside what "we" think and read the word of God. It is infallible and it is the authority. Truth is reality and not perception. Regardless of upbringing or tradition, I cannot be afraid of/ reject something just because it defies my traditional mindset or what my grandparents taught me (insert your circumstance here). We are to live our lives according to the Word of God, and not the other way around (using the Bible to justify our actions, means and ends).
The definition of baptism in the original Greek means to completely immerse. Hence the sprinkling of the water (ie in Catholic sacrament/ritual is not truly considered baptism). The body is not immersed in water. Also the person should not be baptized as a baby unless fully cognizant/ consenting of his or her decision/ implications of this action.
There is NO other formula given for Baptism in the Bible except of in Jesus' Name. Isn't the word of God established by 2 or 3 witnesses?
I quote in the KJV as it is closest in version to the original Hebrew/Greek.
Acts 2:38- "Then Peter said unto them, repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Acts 10: 48 "And he COMMANDED them to be baptized in the NAME of the Lord. Then prayed they to him to tarry certain days."
This doesn't sound optional to me.
Regarding Matthew 28:19 which says, "Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit."
First and foremost, this formula was meant for us to OBEY and NOT REPEAT.
Last time I checked there is only 1 name of God given to men, that name is Jesus, the encapsulation of every attribute/characteristic/title of God given both in the old and new testaments. In Matthew 1:20-21, was the first time God ever revealed his name to men as the highest form/ highest name ever known. That name is JESUS. Acts 4:12 states that neither is there salvation in any other, for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. The father, son and holy spirit are TITLES of God, but none of which divulge his name. Why would I want to be baptized under the titles of God when I know his name. Wouldn't I want that (the name) to be applied to my life/ take it on? Jesus is the name in which these titles are revealed. He is the father, the son and the holy spirit- the father in creation, the son in redemption and the holy spirit within us.
Only when we take on his name do we the rights/inheritance/power- not that this is what we are after, but it comes with the territory. It is the same in the natural world, you cannot be adopted without taking on the name (surname) of your new parents- without doing this, they cannot officially claim you as theirs.
However I would like to add my so-called 2 cents in as well. However I find it odd/somewhat funny that nobody has a problem with Acts 2:38 except for those in the religious community. What could you possibly hold against a verse/scripture in the Word of God? And if you what believe really is true, then this should not a pose a threat to you or your teachings/belief systems. I dare you to prove this wrong scripturally and I will gladly follow you. Getting on to the meat of the matter....
First of all I would like to emphasize that the repentance of sins, baptism in Jesus' name and the infilling of the Holy Ghost by manner of speaking in tongues is not just recommended or optional, it is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to salvation. Not only is this biblical, it is also a simple matter of obedience. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
We need salvation. We are sinners but God in his mercy, goodness and grace has provided us with a way of reconciliation unto him. (Sin separated us from God, with the fall of man via Adam and Eve thus requiring a reconciliation) Through baptism our sins are remitted- eradicated and completely expunged (this is the only way that this can occur). Through baptism in Jesus' name, we take on his name (as obvious as that may seem, I must reiterate) thus we become his children and his heirs. How are to invoke his name if we are not baptized in it? (This is a secondary however I did want to mention it).
Water in of itself has no saving power or virtue, rather it is symbolic/type and shadow. The simple fact is God chose it as a step to salvation and I choose to accept it at that. False doctrine revels in complexity, I do not have the time to waste to ponder or philosophize why, but that is not to be mistaken as taking everything at face value and being an ignorant follower.
More importantly, we need to put aside what "we" think and read the word of God. It is infallible and it is the authority. Truth is reality and not perception. Regardless of upbringing or tradition, I cannot be afraid of/ reject something just because it defies my traditional mindset or what my grandparents taught me (insert your circumstance here). We are to live our lives according to the Word of God, and not the other way around (using the Bible to justify our actions, means and ends).
The definition of baptism in the original Greek means to completely immerse. Hence the sprinkling of the water (ie in Catholic sacrament/ritual is not truly considered baptism). The body is not immersed in water. Also the person should not be baptized as a baby unless fully cognizant/ consenting of his or her decision/ implications of this action.
There is NO other formula given for Baptism in the Bible except of in Jesus' Name. Isn't the word of God established by 2 or 3 witnesses?
I quote in the KJV as it is closest in version to the original Hebrew/Greek.
Acts 2:38- "Then Peter said unto them, repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Acts 10: 48 "And he COMMANDED them to be baptized in the NAME of the Lord. Then prayed they to him to tarry certain days."
This doesn't sound optional to me.
Regarding Matthew 28:19 which says, "Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit."
First and foremost, this formula was meant for us to OBEY and NOT REPEAT.
Last time I checked there is only 1 name of God given to men, that name is Jesus, the encapsulation of every attribute/characteristic/title of God given both in the old and new testaments. In Matthew 1:20-21, was the first time God ever revealed his name to men as the highest form/ highest name ever known. That name is JESUS. Acts 4:12 states that neither is there salvation in any other, for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. The father, son and holy spirit are TITLES of God, but none of which divulge his name. Why would I want to be baptized under the titles of God when I know his name. Wouldn't I want that (the name) to be applied to my life/ take it on? Jesus is the name in which these titles are revealed. He is the father, the son and the holy spirit- the father in creation, the son in redemption and the holy spirit within us.
Only when we take on his name do we the rights/inheritance/power- not that this is what we are after, but it comes with the territory. It is the same in the natural world, you cannot be adopted without taking on the name (surname) of your new parents- without doing this, they cannot officially claim you as theirs.
Might I be bold and tell you sister that first you should read most of the post of a thread before you try to respond, it could save you alot of time and us . for all you covered in you post has already been discussed with scripture showing that most of what you preach is wrong, I will agree on what you said about water baptism but since you either don't have time to read all of the post. or just don't care to, let me go over this once again . first when you study to take one verse as example acts 2:38 out of contents and make a salvational doctrine out of it, is much beyond heresy, Blind leading the Blind, but the blood of alot of people could be on your hands. when we study the Word of God most of the time we could get the contents of the verse in question by reading 3 to 4 verses before and after that verse, sometimes we may need to read more around that verse. another important part in intrepreting scriptures is we have to determine Who the verse apllies to example :
Le 1:2Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the CATTLE, even of the HERD, and of the flock.
it is clear here, to whom is being addressed, the children of Israel, so are we as Christian obligated to to offer up our cattle . No, this is to the children of Israel, but under your way of taking one verse out of contents or the ways of those that have taught you. I could very easily put this doctrine in with your doctrine of saving baptism. because let me show you once again what you have done with acts 2:38
Ac 2:36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.Ac 2:37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?Ac 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.Ac 2:39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.Ac 2:40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.Ac 2:41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
who is being address here The House of Israel, even to all that are afar off, the House of Israel had their people( the jews) spead out afar off even in those days, joseph and mary had traveled a days journey before they knew that the Child Jesus was not with them. that was a far off in those days.
so you see sister you have taken a verse that was adressed to the House of Israel and put christians under the obligation of this doctrine which at this time you should also put them under Lev. 1:2 and all the the levitical law, For it was said if we break one we have broken them all. Now let me show you one more time what was preached to the gentiles concerning our salvation:
Ac 16:28But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.Ac 16:29Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,Ac 16:30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?Ac 16:31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.Ac 16:32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.Ac 16:33And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
Ac 16:30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?Ac 16:31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
they did not put baptism in the requirement of being saved they did not make it a salvational neccessity, even though they did baptize them it was not for their salvation, Why did God require baptism for the jews and not the gentiles ;
1co 1:21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.1co 1:22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:1co 1:23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;1co 1:24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
another set of scriptures for the gentile's salvation
Ro 10:8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;Ro 10:9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.Ro 10:10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.Ro 10:11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.Ro 10:12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.Ro 10:13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
let me add here that this confession is not confessing our sins , but rather confessing Jesus as our Lord but again no baptism mentioned here to obtain salvation. so this is scripture plus what my grand pa taught me, showing you where you have taken acts 2:38 out of contents. I pray that this helps you
Le 1:2Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the CATTLE, even of the HERD, and of the flock.
it is clear here, to whom is being addressed, the children of Israel, so are we as Christian obligated to to offer up our cattle . No, this is to the children of Israel, but under your way of taking one verse out of contents or the ways of those that have taught you. I could very easily put this doctrine in with your doctrine of saving baptism. because let me show you once again what you have done with acts 2:38
Ac 2:36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.Ac 2:37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?Ac 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.Ac 2:39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.Ac 2:40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.Ac 2:41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
who is being address here The House of Israel, even to all that are afar off, the House of Israel had their people( the jews) spead out afar off even in those days, joseph and mary had traveled a days journey before they knew that the Child Jesus was not with them. that was a far off in those days.
so you see sister you have taken a verse that was adressed to the House of Israel and put christians under the obligation of this doctrine which at this time you should also put them under Lev. 1:2 and all the the levitical law, For it was said if we break one we have broken them all. Now let me show you one more time what was preached to the gentiles concerning our salvation:
Ac 16:28But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.Ac 16:29Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,Ac 16:30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?Ac 16:31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.Ac 16:32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.Ac 16:33And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
Ac 16:30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?Ac 16:31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
they did not put baptism in the requirement of being saved they did not make it a salvational neccessity, even though they did baptize them it was not for their salvation, Why did God require baptism for the jews and not the gentiles ;
1co 1:21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.1co 1:22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:1co 1:23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;1co 1:24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
another set of scriptures for the gentile's salvation
Ro 10:8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;Ro 10:9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.Ro 10:10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.Ro 10:11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.Ro 10:12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.Ro 10:13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
let me add here that this confession is not confessing our sins , but rather confessing Jesus as our Lord but again no baptism mentioned here to obtain salvation. so this is scripture plus what my grand pa taught me, showing you where you have taken acts 2:38 out of contents. I pray that this helps you
let me give you one more verses concerning this:
Ro 3:19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.Ro 3:20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.Ro 3:21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;Ro 3:22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:Ro 3:23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;Ro 3:24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:Ro 3:25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;Ro 3:26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.Ro 3:27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.Ro 3:28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.Ro 3:29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
if you want to go back under the law go ahead, but remember ye must keep all the lawGa 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.Ga 5:2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.Ga 5:3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.Ga 5:4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Ga 5:14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Ro 3:19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.Ro 3:20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.Ro 3:21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;Ro 3:22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:Ro 3:23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;Ro 3:24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:Ro 3:25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;Ro 3:26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.Ro 3:27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.Ro 3:28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.Ro 3:29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
if you want to go back under the law go ahead, but remember ye must keep all the lawGa 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.Ga 5:2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.Ga 5:3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.Ga 5:4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Ga 5:14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Thaddeus, you have not been able to convincingly refute what I posted. The Church, not the bible, is the final authority against heresy. NOT THE BIBLE. There was no NT when the passage was written. And there is absolutely NOTHING SINCE THEN WHICH TELLS US THE NT is our final authority. The BIBLE itself does NOT SUPPORT SOLA SCRIPTURA.
That you have such a difficult time understanding this, that you have such a difficult time interpreting christian scripture, serves to emphasize how some people are indoctrinated in a point of view and when presenting with irrefutable evidence of their mistaken interpretation and viewpoint, simply cannot see and read and understand the evidence for what it is.
This is the case with you, Thaddeus. This is the case with fundamentalists at large, Thaddeus. You are so convinced of your unsubstantiated viewpoint, you either ignore or dismiss compelling evidence to the contrary because you are prone to read into anything put before you WHAT YOU WANT TO READ IN TO IT. You are the victim of a narrow, mistaken vision. I am afraid only you alone can break out of your straitjacket and develop beyond your current unchristian doctrine and join the Church of Jesus Christ.
Amen.
D
Eric51 wrote:
Because some 'Protestants' misuse scripture by quoting it out of context or without looking at what the whole of scripture has to say on a topic, does not diminish the word of God. This is not the meaning of what is commonly termed Sola Scriptura.
If you are content to follow the dictates of a man led church, then that is your choice.
As for me and my house, we shall follow the Lord.
Because some 'Protestants' misuse scripture by quoting it out of context or without looking at what the whole of scripture has to say on a topic, does not diminish the word of God. This is not the meaning of what is commonly termed Sola Scriptura.
If you are content to follow the dictates of a man led church, then that is your choice.
As for me and my house, we shall follow the Lord.
- Status