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if it were not for women, there would not be men to talk in church. if a woman is good enough to go to church with you, she is good enough to talk about what it teaches. it took the faith of a woman to give birth to Jesus. imagine what she could have taught us in church.
how do we convert a non Christian woman if she cant talk about it. if she isn't married she cant go home and ask her husband. maybe her husband isn't a Christian. whats more important, following the rules or helping her convert. to me when i read this its saying during service, no one should be talking except the pastor/priest. i cant imagine being in a service where the congregation is interrupting the pastor/priest. i feel that this is what it is addressing.
to use it as a rule to exclude a woman, says more about the man and his failure to understand the bible and its teachings. i would recommend to a woman that if her church enforces this then she should seek a new church. if her husband enforces this she should divorce him. let no man or woman come between you and your desire to understand your faith in God. Jesus will understand. if anything the more we are willing to go through for our faith, the more it will mean to us.
Duewell
how do we convert a non Christian woman if she cant talk about it. if she isn't married she cant go home and ask her husband. maybe her husband isn't a Christian. whats more important, following the rules or helping her convert. to me when i read this its saying during service, no one should be talking except the pastor/priest. i cant imagine being in a service where the congregation is interrupting the pastor/priest. i feel that this is what it is addressing.
to use it as a rule to exclude a woman, says more about the man and his failure to understand the bible and its teachings. i would recommend to a woman that if her church enforces this then she should seek a new church. if her husband enforces this she should divorce him. let no man or woman come between you and your desire to understand your faith in God. Jesus will understand. if anything the more we are willing to go through for our faith, the more it will mean to us.
Duewell
J
If we are going to ignore verses 34 and 35, we would have to ignore verses 1-33 as well regarding other matters of order within churches. This is the context of the chapter. I can't ignore any of it. It says what it says. I do, however want to point out that it twice says, "in the church/churches". There's no mention of forums. 
1
Some say women couldn't speak back then because they were stupid and uneducated. This is a bunk argument. First because women of God are instructed to be wise and to know God's word. Second because the very people who say women were stupid are the same ones who point to obscure passages about women being used back then in ministry. Well if women were being used back then as they based on their obscure scriptural references, then their initial argument about stupid women goes flying out the window.
Some say women are instructed not to speak because of their seating situation and as a means to stop them from causing a disruption. Even if this scenario is true, it's not the basis for telling women to be quiet and not speak. The basis of the instruction is founded on the order of creation..
1 timothy 2
11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
Some say this command was only said to a church or a handful of churches to address a specific issue in that church. But again, that's simply not the case.
1 corinthians 14
33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40Let all things be done decently and in order.
Some say women are instructed not to speak because of their seating situation and as a means to stop them from causing a disruption. Even if this scenario is true, it's not the basis for telling women to be quiet and not speak. The basis of the instruction is founded on the order of creation..
1 timothy 2
11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
Some say this command was only said to a church or a handful of churches to address a specific issue in that church. But again, that's simply not the case.
1 corinthians 14
33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40Let all things be done decently and in order.
Most churches I go to no one talks anyways. Men and women both listen to the pastor. Although I must admit women talk sometimes. I don't believe women should complain about the Bible haveing verses about gender. After all, the Bible teaches about widows being cared for and it only mentions women. The same church in the New Testament that wouldn't let women speak in Church had a program to help women who lost their husbands, even the old ones! It sounds like life insurance or disablity. The Church would support women who's husbands died, especially the older women. You know alot of their husbands died if they were that old. It was great! God's verses about gender are not bondage.
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Duewell, there is only one GODLY reason for divorce, you may not create a second... That is adding to God's Word, and that is bad my friend... God said if we add to His Word He will add the plagues to us....
And teaching young women is discussed in Titus... Also the families without a father or husbands are the responsibilities of the elders. They are to be the spiritual leaders for the "women without husbands".
The man is the glorification of God, and the woman is theglorification of the man... This should be very signficant in ANY person that claims to be spiritual! If you know how God's families operate it makes perfect sence why the husband is the PRIEST of the house... The one to preach in church! Even young men will not speak in church, let alone young women!
I did not make the rules, God did, I only obey them and accept them, you wanna be ignorent to them, it is ok, I do not have to answer for your choices.
But to advise women to divirce their husbands, and going against God's commands... that is not wise! God commanded women to be quiet in church, but Duewell says ,,, NO they may speak. I think we have to make a choice here,,, and this is how the Truth seperates... I have an personal experence about 1 Cor 14 and how that was even said NOT TO BE FROM GOD!...
A pastor once said to me.... No that is not from God. Paul says it is, this pastor says it is not. Who should I believe?
1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
Or the pastor that says this is NOT commands from God, but this was said to the women of Corinthians becasue they made a lot of noise when they walked into the church in Corinthians.... HAHAHA I really laughed when the man said this.... I asked him... Where in the Bible does it say this... The women made a noise when they entered nto the church... Of coarse it is another thumbsuck gospel they preach in that church. Enough to let me know I will not join them for another sermon again.
And teaching young women is discussed in Titus... Also the families without a father or husbands are the responsibilities of the elders. They are to be the spiritual leaders for the "women without husbands".
The man is the glorification of God, and the woman is theglorification of the man... This should be very signficant in ANY person that claims to be spiritual! If you know how God's families operate it makes perfect sence why the husband is the PRIEST of the house... The one to preach in church! Even young men will not speak in church, let alone young women!
I did not make the rules, God did, I only obey them and accept them, you wanna be ignorent to them, it is ok, I do not have to answer for your choices.
But to advise women to divirce their husbands, and going against God's commands... that is not wise! God commanded women to be quiet in church, but Duewell says ,,, NO they may speak. I think we have to make a choice here,,, and this is how the Truth seperates... I have an personal experence about 1 Cor 14 and how that was even said NOT TO BE FROM GOD!...
A pastor once said to me.... No that is not from God. Paul says it is, this pastor says it is not. Who should I believe?
1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
Or the pastor that says this is NOT commands from God, but this was said to the women of Corinthians becasue they made a lot of noise when they walked into the church in Corinthians.... HAHAHA I really laughed when the man said this.... I asked him... Where in the Bible does it say this... The women made a noise when they entered nto the church... Of coarse it is another thumbsuck gospel they preach in that church. Enough to let me know I will not join them for another sermon again.
i would hope if someone goes before God and they are asked why did you divorce your spouse, and your answer was, they did not let me pursue my faith in you. that God would take exception to that. who among us would leave home and family and children in service to God. according to you, not the women, and if they did, its not a Godly reason for divorce. they certainly couldn't talk about it in church with the men. i guess woman don't get moved by the Holy Spirit like the men do. no speaking in tongues ladies. if a women is moved by the spirit to speak in tongues in church, the holy spirit is now responsible for her not following God's command to be silent? i thought they were on the same side? oh wait ladies its ok to speak in tongues in the church. just not in anything that could be considered a question. by your understanding, women may not sing in church. singing isn't quiet, singing isn't silent. by your understanding, if the PRIEST of the house tells his wife to leave her faith, she has no right to refuse him. to refuse him would be to go against God's teaching. she may not question her husbands instruction. she may not leave him. there is only one GODLY reason for divorce. adultery and infidelity, in your eyes, apply to the physical relations between man and woman. i try to also view it in the spiritual relation between humans and God. let no person come between you and God.
a pastor sought to instruct you in this and you denied him. of course you would deny this, it doesn't go with your views. another law of God is to honor your mother and father, its one of the big ten. you show your mother no honor in church by refusing to let her participate in her religion in the same manner you do. if not for Christian women there would be fewer Christian men. my relationship with God is the most important thing in my life. how could i dare to refuse a woman wanting to make it the most important thing in her life. she can, but just not in church? she can but not like a man? i'm done speaking with men who would teach such hypocrisy. if taking instruction from a woman will help me grow in my faith, i'm willing to learn and sing with her. i will not put a stumbling block in someones way of finding or understanding their faith, regardless of where the questions come up or from who ask them. to think otherwise would be "IGNORENT" .... that pretty much said it all don't you think.
Duewell
maybe you should consider islam, how they treat women is more to your standards.
a pastor sought to instruct you in this and you denied him. of course you would deny this, it doesn't go with your views. another law of God is to honor your mother and father, its one of the big ten. you show your mother no honor in church by refusing to let her participate in her religion in the same manner you do. if not for Christian women there would be fewer Christian men. my relationship with God is the most important thing in my life. how could i dare to refuse a woman wanting to make it the most important thing in her life. she can, but just not in church? she can but not like a man? i'm done speaking with men who would teach such hypocrisy. if taking instruction from a woman will help me grow in my faith, i'm willing to learn and sing with her. i will not put a stumbling block in someones way of finding or understanding their faith, regardless of where the questions come up or from who ask them. to think otherwise would be "IGNORENT" .... that pretty much said it all don't you think.
Duewell
maybe you should consider islam, how they treat women is more to your standards.
Duewell. According to the Bible the believer should NEVER want to devorce, so to make up ...he did not want me to persue my faith, will NEVER sit well with God....We only read IF THE UNBELIEVER ANTS TO GO... We never read of a believer that will want to go..... Which husband can stand between a woman and God? NONE! So even if he tries, he cannot! Her faith is not the assembly, her faith is Jesus in her.
My wife is a living example of how to get a husband through the "EVIL YEARS". My wife has always been a Christian. She married this "lost case" of a man...me! And her innocent life said more about God and Jesus, than you could put together of ALL the sermons I heard in my life! She did what God advises in 1 Peter, and I would really be blind not to see the meek and quiet SPIRIT in my wife was that of Chrsit Jesus!
You see these verses is also true... Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;.... 1Pe 3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear......1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; .....1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
Let me give you one example.... It is a Sunday... she and the kids wants to go to church, and I have packed the boat and a big picknick basket for all of us. After church is Sunday-school for the kids, but I had no regard for God or the church. So I said...we are going to the dam and that is that. I did not even love my wife then as I should have. She being wise knew I would leave her at home if she argues, but that i will not let her hold the kids at home. So she made the right desision to let go of the church, and go to the dam with her husband and two daughters. NO CHURCH that Sunday as she had planned.
Had she not go, there would have been a lot of swearing and even big tantrums from me. And of coarse she would have sat at home all alone and worry about the family the whole day, becasue I would have come home very late that night.
Anyway, this beautiful ANGEL OF GOD called Lucy, my wife had this for 16 years Duewell... 16 years of hell! But then God had 33and a half. Anyway, in all those 16 years my wife NEVER said a single word to me about "Jesus Christ". Her calm and submissive spirit to this really stupid husband accomplished more than what I first believed... She kept the peace. She kept a family together. She kept a bad husband in store for God. She showed Jesus Christ in her without EVER saying a word about gospel. She held a family in God, for God to work. And God did!
16 Years into marriage she asked me to join them to go to church... That Sunday, God called me. Now 15 years later, Lucy has still the same family but with two new children added, and now her husband is typing here. She still does not say a word and has only prayed for one woman once in her life, but EVERYBODY knows she is an angel. Now it is a pleasure for her to suport her husband.... Her sacrificial suppot of 16 years is now a BLESSING support.
Just a week ago, she said to the oldest daughter... NOW SHE KNOWS COBUS LOVES HER AS HE SHOULD! And she did all this, without EVER saying the two words... "Jesus Christ" to her husband! I asked her... Mommy why do you never witness Jesus Christ, and she said...."Cobus I am the rock you can stand on to preach to the World!"
Duewell if any pastor wnats to take away my rock, he will be shown the fool he is! Like the young man that came to Jesus and said.... GOOD MASTER... And he got what he deserved.... Any person that thinks he can change Lucy to be "Good woman" will be a fool! She is way past "good woman" becasue she is what God made her to be. The perfect wife and mother!
Let me use this oppertunity to say.... "Lord thank you that you gave me Lucy, she is indeed an angel sent to save Cobus. My loving Father, let thou will be done in us as in heaven. And Lord send the Truth teachers, for the harvest is great, send us the harvesters for YOUR GLORY, Amen!
My wife is a living example of how to get a husband through the "EVIL YEARS". My wife has always been a Christian. She married this "lost case" of a man...me! And her innocent life said more about God and Jesus, than you could put together of ALL the sermons I heard in my life! She did what God advises in 1 Peter, and I would really be blind not to see the meek and quiet SPIRIT in my wife was that of Chrsit Jesus!
You see these verses is also true... Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;.... 1Pe 3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear......1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; .....1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
Let me give you one example.... It is a Sunday... she and the kids wants to go to church, and I have packed the boat and a big picknick basket for all of us. After church is Sunday-school for the kids, but I had no regard for God or the church. So I said...we are going to the dam and that is that. I did not even love my wife then as I should have. She being wise knew I would leave her at home if she argues, but that i will not let her hold the kids at home. So she made the right desision to let go of the church, and go to the dam with her husband and two daughters. NO CHURCH that Sunday as she had planned.
Had she not go, there would have been a lot of swearing and even big tantrums from me. And of coarse she would have sat at home all alone and worry about the family the whole day, becasue I would have come home very late that night.
Anyway, this beautiful ANGEL OF GOD called Lucy, my wife had this for 16 years Duewell... 16 years of hell! But then God had 33and a half. Anyway, in all those 16 years my wife NEVER said a single word to me about "Jesus Christ". Her calm and submissive spirit to this really stupid husband accomplished more than what I first believed... She kept the peace. She kept a family together. She kept a bad husband in store for God. She showed Jesus Christ in her without EVER saying a word about gospel. She held a family in God, for God to work. And God did!
16 Years into marriage she asked me to join them to go to church... That Sunday, God called me. Now 15 years later, Lucy has still the same family but with two new children added, and now her husband is typing here. She still does not say a word and has only prayed for one woman once in her life, but EVERYBODY knows she is an angel. Now it is a pleasure for her to suport her husband.... Her sacrificial suppot of 16 years is now a BLESSING support.
Just a week ago, she said to the oldest daughter... NOW SHE KNOWS COBUS LOVES HER AS HE SHOULD! And she did all this, without EVER saying the two words... "Jesus Christ" to her husband! I asked her... Mommy why do you never witness Jesus Christ, and she said...."Cobus I am the rock you can stand on to preach to the World!"
Duewell if any pastor wnats to take away my rock, he will be shown the fool he is! Like the young man that came to Jesus and said.... GOOD MASTER... And he got what he deserved.... Any person that thinks he can change Lucy to be "Good woman" will be a fool! She is way past "good woman" becasue she is what God made her to be. The perfect wife and mother!
Let me use this oppertunity to say.... "Lord thank you that you gave me Lucy, she is indeed an angel sent to save Cobus. My loving Father, let thou will be done in us as in heaven. And Lord send the Truth teachers, for the harvest is great, send us the harvesters for YOUR GLORY, Amen!
I
I will ask this again. If God is NOT a respecter of persons, why then believe that He would have females silent in any "church"? It is then evident that either Paul is a liar, OR he means something DIFFERENT.
He uses the word "women" in the same way revelation uses it. The woman who escaped to the wilderness remains silent, while the other rules us by NOT remaining silent. We are told to flee fornication and this is it.
He uses the word "women" in the same way revelation uses it. The woman who escaped to the wilderness remains silent, while the other rules us by NOT remaining silent. We are told to flee fornication and this is it.