Why doesn’t Hebrews mention ….

[Pilgrimshope]

This introduces like a schizophrenia or something. Either gentile believers will be in heaven without Christ, or Israel will be on the earth without Christ. Doesn't sound like one flock, one shepherd. Or will Christ be doing some kind of shuttle diplomacy to keep everyone happy?

“This introduces like a schizophrenia or something. Either gentile believers will be in heaven without Christ, “

not at all the no haven’t said gentile believers will be i he’s en without Christ where did you get that from ? Gentile believers will be raised to life when he returns from heaven right here

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That doesn’t happen until Jesus comes back .

“or Israel will be on the earth without Christ. “

not at all lol israel had a covenant before we did . In thoer covenant god promised to raise the faithful ones from the dead when the messiah came the first time at the endings of thoer covenant .. this is the promise he made Old Testament israel before jesus came the first time

“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭37:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s not about gentiles it’s about israel and it’s been fulfilled already when Jesus defeated death and rose

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In revelation you haven’t noticed the first group is all only isralites of the tribes which the old covenant was made with ?

“And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

( but then there’s another group that appears on f gentiles shouting about the gospel )


After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:4, 9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s because god made two covenants one with israel and one with everyone . Thier covenant had a resurrection promise the saints are in heaven already with Jesus .

“And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, ( heavenly Jerusalemsee Hebrews 12:22 ) and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.( notice it’s not the sons name cause it’s the Old Testament and Israelites who worshipped by the name yaweh before Jesus north and his name was announced )

And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: and they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth

( the saints of israel )

These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When Paul’s explaining the resurrections he makes it clear Christ and the firstfruits rise foret then everyone who belongs to Jesus when he comes back from heaven to gsther them

doesn’t seem off to me but I suppose the can undersrsnd your position lol I’m not the best communicator




children. Jesus came and was born among them after that

 

[Pilgrimshope]

These are all great verses and thoughts you are sharing my friend. I do think there is going to be a physical restoration of Israel and this world as a whole after Christ's return. We have made a mess of this world by rejecting God and trying to do it our way, and I see the millennium as a return to the Garden in a sense. Only this time, Satan and the forces of evil are out of the picture.

Am I cool with transitioning straight to heaven upon Christ's return. Absolutely! But, I think my time in the clouds will be limited to enjoying that marriage supper of the Lamb and then rolling up the sleeves to clean up the mess we've made. I want to be one of those priestly voices encouraging people that “…This is the way, walk in it…” (Isa 30:21) and build a successful human society as God intended under Christ’s leadership.

Check out what else Isaiah has to say:

Isaiah 2:1-4

New King James Version

The Future House of God

1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days
That the mountain of the Lord’s house
Shall be established on the top of the mountains,
And shall be exalted above the hills;
And all nations shall flow to it.

3Many people shall come and say,
“Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
He will teach us His ways,
And we shall walk in His paths.”
For out of Zion shall go forth the law,
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

4 He shall judge between the nations,
And rebuke many people;
They shall beat their swords into plowshares,
And their spears into pruning [a]hooks;
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
Neither shall they learn war anymore.

I don’t think this is going to happen in heaven. I think it’s going to happen right here on this earth, or what’s left of it after our feeble attempts to govern ourselves. What would be the point of beating swords into plowshares and spears into pruning hooks in heaven? Are we going to be planting gardens and fields there?

When in human history has this prophecy seen fulfillment? It’s been one war after another, and we are exponentially more destructive now than we have ever been. World War III is already in progress, and none of us want to see the ultimate power we have to destroy ourselves with nuclear weapons happen if we can’t keep our lusts in check.

Don’t get me wrong and think I’m discrediting your views – I think they’re fantastic overall. I’m just showing from scripture that the case for the 1000 year reign of Christ prior to the New Heavens and New Earth is a valid proposition.

It will prove that God was right from the beginning. We as humans can live in harmony with our God, with people from all walks of life, and this beautiful gem of a planet He gave us. We have had ~6000 years, and the record is failure on the whole. 1000 years under Christ and what that will yield will set the historic case straight.
.

“The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days
That the mountain of the Lord’s house
Shall be established on the top of the mountains,
And shall be exalted above the hills;
And all nations shall flow to it.”

after the new earth is established and old is gone ….
“And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

isaiah is the root of much of the nt

 

[Pilgrimshope]

At this point in history, a man-made temple in Jerusalem will be the work of evil, ungodly men, not God.

unless it’s part of that great delusion he sends for those who reject the truth

 

[Gideon300]

Words that you see with your eyes convey knowledge to your mind, but they don't convey understanding. That comes from listening within and is a light that illuminates your whole being enabling you to see the truth behind written words. Knowledge without understanding is darkness. That is why Jesus cautioned to beware how you hear, because if you think you see because you have knowledge, but have no light to be able to spritually discern through understanding, then that darkness is very great. As long as you say you see when you really don't, then that blindness remains.

If you don't have the spiritual sense and discipline to constrain obscure and allegorical writings like Revelation to the light of plainly revealed truth, like Jesus' words that God has discarded the man-made temple as the place to worship him because he has made every believer's body a temple, then you will take words written about the temple of God at face value, rather than subjecting them to the inward witness of the spirit in order to see that he's actually talking about the spiritual temple made without hands, and consequently, you will go astray in your understanding.

I could say exactly the same about you. Obviously there are many believers who believe Revelation to be literal and many who do not. We can't all be right. We will find out one day.

 

[Gideon300]

This introduces like a schizophrenia or something. Either gentile believers will be in heaven without Christ, or Israel will be on the earth without Christ. Doesn't sound like one flock, one shepherd. Or will Christ be doing some kind of shuttle diplomacy to keep everyone happy?

I suggest you look up Amir Tsarfati. Also Jack Hibbs. Amir is a believing Jew who is an evangelist in Israel. There are now bout 30,000 born again Jews in Israel. God is indeed saving all through Christ alone. That does not mean that Christians can diss Israel and reject Revelation as merely metaphorical.

 

[Adstar]

Why doesn’t the letter written to the Hebrews mention the restoring of thier temple or land or thier riegn for a thousand years on earth ? but instead it explaines that tbier inheritance and promised land isn’t on this earth but in heaven ?

just a question to ponder . it seems as if the specific letter written to Hebrews would have been all about waiting for the Hope of thier earthly covenant restoration and the rebuilding of thier temple and gathering back to thier land or at least mentioned it in passing to those Hebrews …..rather than creating this idea that tbier kingdom inheritance isnt of this earth or the old covenant. If that was what’s going to happen .

The 1000 year earthy kingdom does not last forever.. Also the Kingdom is anywhere Jesus is..

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The 1000 year earthy kingdom does not last forever.. Also the Kingdom is anywhere Jesus is..

“ the Kingdom is anywhere Jesus is.”

right the kingdom follows the king where he goes

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: ( psalm 2) and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5, 10-11‬ ‭


Meanwhile on earth after Jesus went up

“Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.( kingdom is in heaven at this point )

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

On earth

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is going to one day return from heaven and this will happen



“and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. ….But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

( after that happens to this earth then the kingdom will come down from heaven to a new earth )

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-5‬ ‭

until Jesus returns nothing is going to be restored and when he does he’s going to destroy this earth and make a new one to restore all thing at once we’re just waiting for Jesus to return From heaven

When it’s time to restore creation Jesus will return from heaven with his saints and gather all his people for the new creation tbe time of restitution of all things

 

[God-fearing]

“ the Kingdom is anywhere Jesus is.”

right the kingdom follows the king where he goes

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: ( psalm 2) and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5, 10-11‬ ‭


Meanwhile on earth after Jesus went up

“Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.( kingdom is in heaven at this point )

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

On earth

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is going to one day return from heaven and this will happen



“and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. ….But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

( after that happens to this earth then the kingdom will come down from heaven to a new earth )

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-5‬ ‭

until Jesus returns nothing is going to be restored and when he does he’s going to destroy this earth and make a new one to restore all thing at once we’re just waiting for Jesus to return From heaven

When it’s time to restore creation Jesus will return from heaven with his saints and gather all his people for the new creation tbe time of restitution of all things

Missing a few things here but I getcha....let's hurry up and go home

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Missing a few things here but I getcha....let's hurry up and go home

Amen and amen !

“He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Adstar]

“ the Kingdom is anywhere Jesus is.”

right the kingdom follows the king where he goes

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: ( psalm 2) and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5, 10-11‬ ‭


Meanwhile on earth after Jesus went up

“Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.( kingdom is in heaven at this point )

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

On earth

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is going to one day return from heaven and this will happen



“and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. ….But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

( after that happens to this earth then the kingdom will come down from heaven to a new earth )

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-5‬ ‭

until Jesus returns nothing is going to be restored and when he does he’s going to destroy this earth and make a new one to restore all thing at once we’re just waiting for Jesus to return From heaven

When it’s time to restore creation Jesus will return from heaven with his saints and gather all his people for the new creation the time of restitution of all things

Jesus will return to earth and establish the millennial kingdom and at the end of those 1000 years satan will be released from the bottomless pit and go out to deceive the world and then those who follow satan will join together to come to surround Jerusalem and the camp of the Saints and God will destroy them.. It is only after this that the final judgement will happen and the New Jerusalem will come down to earth to be our home with Jesus.. All you have to do is read revelation 20 and 21 to see this..

(Revelation 20:6-9) "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. {7} And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, {8} And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. {9} And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."


The second coming of Jesus happens in Revelation 19..
The 1000 year kingdom is talked about in Revelation 20..
The coming of the New Jerusalem out of heaven is revealed in Revelation 21..

The Chapters are chronological..

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Jesus will return to earth and establish the millennial kingdom and at the end of those 1000 years satan will be released from the bottomless pit and go out to deceive the world and then those who follow satan will join together to come to surround Jerusalem and the camp of the Saints and God will destroy them.. It is only after this that the final judgement will happen and the New Jerusalem will come down to earth to be our home with Jesus.. All you have to do is read revelation 20 and 21 to see this..

(Revelation 20:6-9) "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. {7} And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, {8} And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. {9} And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."


The second coming of Jesus happens in Revelation 19..
The 1000 year kingdom is talked about in Revelation 20..
The coming of the New Jerusalem out of heaven is revealed in Revelation 21..

The Chapters are chronological..

Alright

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Good read

"What then does the New Testament say as to the reconstitution hereafter of the Jewish nation; as to the re-occupation by that nation of the land of Canaan; as to its exaltation to the place of world-supremacy and headship over other nations; as to the re-building of the temple and the re-institution of bloody sacrifices &c. ? Not one word. "

The Hope of Israel: What Is It?
https://www.brethrenarchive.org/media/366039/mauro-p-_-the-hope-of-israel.pdf

 

[God-fearing]

Good read

"What then does the New Testament say as to the reconstitution hereafter of the Jewish nation; as to the re-occupation by that nation of the land of Canaan; as to its exaltation to the place of world-supremacy and headship over other nations; as to the re-building of the temple and the re-institution of bloody sacrifices &c. ? Not one word. "

The Hope of Israel: What Is It?
https://www.brethrenarchive.org/media/366039/mauro-p-_-the-hope-of-israel.pdf

Oh they are so right...bloody sacrifice will not take place. Yes it is there intentions for they are of the mind of Israel of old but..(getting ahead of myself) as they prepare for the temple sacrifice and even tried to do under a tent at one point that's Gods signature in a way that yes this is the israel of old.
Let me stop there and continue in a bit. I want to get my thoughts and prayers straight.

 

[SilverFox7]

the thousand years is the time between the first resurrection of Israel’s faithful saints fulfilling the ot promise and the last one which will fulfill the nt promise of a resurrection .

it’s not literal time period look at like the kings who rose and have power for one hour with the beast “ that also is. Ot literal timeframe it’s a short period of time represented by an hour . Thousand years represents a very extended time period where the saints are reigning in heavens kingdom

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10-12, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They are reigning with him in heavens kingdom and when he returns he’s going to raise all the dead of the new testament by his nt promise of resurrection . Each time Jesus comes to earth there’s a resurrection to fulfill the promise in the covenant . He came once to fulfill the law and prophets will come again to fulfill the gospel

should be looked at through this idea

“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You are the first one who has helped me understand the metaphorical perspective of time (i.e. "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years"), and that's probably where my thinking is flawed through viewing time from a finite, scientific perspective. God is eternal. He is the one who set the synchronous clock into motion at the time He created (or recreated) this physical universe. Time is certainly relative from His point of view, way beyond what my pea brain can grasp even with the help of His Spirit.

And, it's intriguing that "...the thousand years as one day..." is referred to by some as the blueprint timeline from the time of Adam and Eve to the end of the millennium (6 days for man = 6000 years; 1 day for Christ = 1000 years). The 7 days for a week and the 7 days celebrating the Feast of Tabernacles are two examples that support this theory. But again, that's a literal interpretation of Peter's incredible thoughts that you reference above. The "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years" strikes me as metaphorical now - my mortal life is only a few moments within His for one day.

The second coming of Jesus happens in Revelation 19..
The 1000 year kingdom is talked about in Revelation 20..
The coming of the New Jerusalem out of heaven is revealed in Revelation 21..

The Chapters are chronological..

I do agree with @Adstar, too. I see Revelation chapters 19-21 chronologically - that's how things are going to unfold when Jesus Christ returns. Unlike most of the book of Revelation that is filled with metaphors and symbolism, the last few chapters have a metaphorical flavor, of course, but they also strike me as fact, literal. Israel will be restored to their land, and this world will experience peace and justice under the Lord our King for a thousand years. So, why is this the only area in the NT that focuses on this? One answer is Revelation is just that - a revelation from our Lord to his beloved John ~25 years after the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You are the first one who has helped me understand the metaphorical perspective of time (i.e. "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years"), and that's probably where my thinking is flawed through viewing time from a finite, scientific perspective. God is eternal. He is the one who set the synchronous clock into motion at the time He created (or recreated) this physical universe. Time is certainly relative from His point of view, way beyond what my pea brain can grasp even with the help of His Spirit.

And, it's intriguing that "...the thousand years as one day..." is referred to by some as the blueprint timeline from the time of Adam and Eve to the end of the millennium (6 days for man = 6000 years; 1 day for Christ = 1000 years). The 7 days for a week and the 7 days celebrating the Feast of Tabernacles are two examples that support this theory. But again, that's a literal interpretation of Peter's incredible thoughts that you reference above. The "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years" strikes me as metaphorical now - my mortal life is only a few moments within His for one day.



I do agree with @Adstar, too. I see Revelation chapters 19-21 chronologically - that's how things are going to unfold when Jesus Christ returns. Unlike most of the book of Revelation that is filled with metaphors and symbolism, the last few chapters have a metaphorical flavor, of course, but they also strike me as fact, literal. Israel will be restored to their land, and this world will experience peace and justice under the Lord our King for a thousand years. So, why is this the only area in the NT that focuses on this? One answer is Revelation is just that - a revelation from our Lord to his beloved John ~25 years after the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed.

Amen brother , I think often we are looking from our perspective but Godbis speaking from his

It’s only my own understanding and certainly I’m not an authority if any kind. Sometimes if we state our case it sounds like we’re saying “ this is the only possible way to see it if you don’t agree you are wrong I’m right “

abut I don’t see it that way . There are a lot of thoughts and ideas about things I just have mine and believe it to be right but also I’m aware of how fallible and flawed we can be through things like pride or just simply thinking we have learned everything there is and there can’t be another nuance or detail or point to be made or learn


Every time we communicate I find value in your posts . Always enjoyable but more so always edifying . You are appreciated brother thanks for enduring ehatever foolishness is evident and finding some value as well

discussing scriptire can be a huge benefit in f it’s done in the right spirit God bless dear brother always a pleasure

 

[Beckworth]

The letter to the Hebrews doesn’t mention the restoration of the temple, the return of the land, or a thousand-year earthly reign because its focus and purpose are very different from books like Revelation or Old Testament prophetic texts. Hebrews is written to a group of Jewish believers who were tempted to return to the mosaic covenant system—especially the temple sacrifices—and its primary aim is to show the supremacy of Jesus and the new covenant compared to the mosaic covenant that has been done away with.

If you want theology you go to theology books, like the book of Romans.
If you want eschatology you go to the book of Revelation or Daniel

Each book is written for a different purpose.

You are right about what Hebrews is about. The writer uses arguments to persuade the Jewish Christian’s not to return to Judaism:
-Christ is better than Angels. ( Chapter 1)
-Christ is better than Moses. (Chapter 3)
-The priesthood of Christ is better than the Levitical priesthood. ( chapter 5-7)
-The New Covenant is better than the Old Covenant. (Chapter 8-9)
-Christ’s blood is better than the blood of bulls and goats. ( chapter 10)
And I believe there are a couple of more but can’t remember at this time. I love the book of Hebrews.

 

[SilverFox7]

Amen brother , I think often we are looking from our perspective but Godbis speaking from his

It’s only my own understanding and certainly I’m not an authority if any kind. Sometimes if we state our case it sounds like we’re saying “ this is the only possible way to see it if you don’t agree you are wrong I’m right “

abut I don’t see it that way . There are a lot of thoughts and ideas about things I just have mine and believe it to be right but also I’m aware of how fallible and flawed we can be through things like pride or just simply thinking we have learned everything there is and there can’t be another nuance or detail or point to be made or learn


Every time we communicate I find value in your posts . Always enjoyable but more so always edifying . You are appreciated brother thanks for enduring ehatever foolishness is evident and finding some value as well

discussing scriptire can be a huge benefit in f it’s done in the right spirit God bless dear brother always a pleasure

I appreciate you as well, Pilgrim. When it comes to the gospel and the core doctrines of our faith, we are on the same page. As we dive into those areas of scripture where there’s grey and interpretation, we differ some, but we express our views with love and respect. And, I’ve found that where believers have different beliefs, they are typically non-salvation matters, and we may be more aligned than we realize. God will make all of that clear with new revelations to come.

I was thinking about the 1st century Church and how unsettling it must have been to witness and experience Jerusalem being destroyed by the Romans and the Temple left in ruins. Jesus forewarned His disciples about this in the Olivet prophecy. But, what didn’t happen after the destruction and desecration is Jesus’ promised glorified return:

Matthew 24:29-30

New King James Version

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Since this didn’t happen after the horrors of 70AD, I suspect the disciples had to do some soul searching and prayer to adapt to their new lives in the Church era. Jesus told them during this same discourse, “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only” (v. 36). Yet, one prediction after another, and Jesus still hasn’t returned. We need to remember to “watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming” (v. 42).

As you referred to from II Peter, “knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, ‘Where is the promise of His coming?...” (II Pet. 3: 3-4). God doesn’t work according to our timetable. He has determined the master plan, and we need to be humble and faithful, keeping our eyes on Jesus and pointing others towards Him as well. “The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance” (v. 9).

 

[SilverFox7]

Amen brother , I think often we are looking from our perspective but God is speaking from his

I think you drove the nail firmly into the board with this observation, brother. Like the questions surrounding Jesus’ return, which we don’t have a clear picture of at this time, especially when specifically that is going to happen, we don’t know how our lives will be when we die or after He returns.

Will we be praising God continually in His throne room? Will we be plucking harps together on the clouds (sorry, this one doesn’t sound appealing to me; give me a bass guitar and I’m in!), or will we be in an eternal state of building up and expanding the Kingdom of God? Or, all of the above with some fishing and playing baseball for "recreation" mixed in !

Look at the conversation between Martha and Jesus while Lazarus was dead in the tomb:

John 11:21-26

New King James Version

21 Now Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”

23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Look, Martha believed in the resurrection, and she had hope and faith that she would see her brother again. Jesus takes her to the next level by saying that He is “the resurrection and the life…[and] whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.” Jesus in essence told one of the thieves on the cross the same thing (Luke 23:43).

How does this align with what Paul has to say regarding the resurrection?

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

New King James Version

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [a]asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

How do these two concepts align? So, if I die and go to heaven, while I’m singing in the heavenly choir, will I need to bow out and be excused, so I can reunite with my bones in the grave to be resurrected at Christ’s return? Again, this is one of those areas where we don’t have all the puzzle pieces, or at least God has not revealed to us where those pieces are in His Word and how they complete the puzzle. I agree, “…we are looking from our perspective but God is speaking from his.”

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I think you drove the nail firmly into the board with this observation, brother. Like the questions surrounding Jesus’ return, which we don’t have a clear picture of at this time, especially when specifically that is going to happen, we don’t know how our lives will be when we die or after He returns.

Will we be praising God continually in His throne room? Will we be plucking harps together on the clouds (sorry, this one doesn’t sound appealing to me; give me a bass guitar and I’m in!), or will we be in an eternal state of building up and expanding the Kingdom of God? Or, all of the above with some fishing and playing baseball for "recreation" mixed in !

Look at the conversation between Martha and Jesus while Lazarus was dead in the tomb:

John 11:21-26

New King James Version

21 Now Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”

23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Look, Martha believed in the resurrection, and she had hope and faith that she would see her brother again. Jesus takes her to the next level by saying that He is “the resurrection and the life…[and] whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.” Jesus in essence told one of the thieves on the cross the same thing (Luke 23:43).

How does this align with what Paul has to say regarding the resurrection?

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

New King James Version

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [a]asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

How do these two concepts align? So, if I die and go to heaven, while I’m singing in the heavenly choir, will I need to bow out and be excused, so I can reunite with my bones in the grave to be resurrected at Christ’s return? Again, this is one of those areas where we don’t have all the puzzle pieces, or at least God has not revealed to us where those pieces are in His Word and how they complete the puzzle. I agree, “…we are looking from our perspective but God is speaking from his.”

Amen brother that’s why I love scripture so n the discussions because scripture also is coming from Gods perspective through his spirit in man and is able to make us “ wise unto salvation ….. nevertheless your well put post here remains “ now we know in part and so we prophecy and understand and speak in part but when perfection shall come then we shall know and understand fully the spirit of prophecy namely Jesus Christ our lord ….even as we are fullly known

 

[SilverFox7]

Amen brother that’s why I love scripture so n the discussions because scripture also is coming from Gods perspective through his spirit in man and is able to make us “ wise unto salvation ….. nevertheless your well put post here remains “ now we know in part and so we prophecy and understand and speak in part but when perfection shall come then we shall know and understand fully the spirit of prophecy namely Jesus Christ our lord ….even as we are fullly known

Exactly,

1 Corinthians 13:12-13
New King James Version

12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

That’s where I was going with the questions surrounding Jesus’ return and life after death. “We see in a mirror, dimly” and we don’t have clear answers in some areas. God enjoys keeping us in suspense and searching for answers. We love a mystery, and many of those mysteries have been solved with Jesus’ first coming. Faith, hope, and love sum up the gospel of the Kingdom well, and Jesus is love personified.

So, is the 1000 year millennium literal or metaphorical? Perhaps the answer is the logical, yes.

One thing that stands out to me is the saints will live and reign with Christ during the millennium. “Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years” (Rev. 20:6).

This is what I’m preparing for brother – being a priest of God and serving others, perhaps those who have lived through the horrors of the apocalypse and helping them to recover and establish a new life and a new society under Jesus our King.

There may be some “shuttle diplomacy” involved. Christ will reign supreme from heaven, and David will rule on earth during the “latter days”:

“Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the Lord their God and David their king. They shall fear the Lord and His goodness in the latter days” (Hosea 3:5).

“But they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up for them” (Jer. 30:9).

“David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgements and observe My statutes, and do them. Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever” (Ezek. 37:24-25).

What a great mystery!