Please help me understand

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Second Peter 3.

1. This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

Peter is telling us to sharpen up listen and try and remember the words spoken of by the prophets, and the commandments of the apostles

There always has been and will be as long as we are here on earth in these flesh bodies people that will try and muddy up Gods word to fit their own way of thanking.

2. That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Savior: I want you to remember; I you to use that pure mind that God gave you to bring into remembrance everything we the apostles, our Lord Jesus Christ, and the prophets have taught you.

3. Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, T

[This is the only place that this word scoffers is found in the Strongs concordance; I found that interesting] Scoffers #1703 Strongs concordance: A derider, i.e. (by implication) a false teacher:- mocker, scoffer.]

4. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

There has always been and always will be until Jesus returns people mocking Christion’s, teaching false religion, ECT.

5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Please do not misunderstand this word ignorant: it means to be without the proper knowledge, teaching etc. When Peter wrote this there were people blindly following different teachers and preachers. 95% of them were not like the Bereans in Acts. They heard the teaching of Paul and went home to study the Old Testament to make sure that what Paul was teaching lined up with the word. When was the last time you left church, went home and searched the scriptures to make sure what you were being taught lined up with them. We need to be like the Bereans.

6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

Perished 622 in the Greek of the Strongs concordance: To destroy fully. Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. How long did they last? We will not know until we are returned to our spiritual bodies and have full recall. We do know something happened to destroy it fully. Peter is writing to us about it so that we will not be unlearned about it

7But the heavens and the earth, which are now by the same word kept in store, reserved unto fire against ungodly men.

The heavens (the vast universe the stars, the galaxies Etc.) that we live in today will again be destroyed.

8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Here again do not be without understanding a thousand years is a millennium. In other words, a 24-hr. day for us is like a thousand years to God.
 
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This is the standard YEC, OEC controversy. Biblically there's evidence that BEFORE the "Adamic creation" the earth was already in existence, and the "Was without form (tohu) and void (Bohu)" should be translated BECAME without form and void. every other Biblical instance where the two terms appear indicate destruction as the direct result of God's Judgement.

Obviously I'm personalle an OEC believer, and as a consequence, I have no issues with the "Heavens and the Earth" being much older than the YEC paradigm demands.
Me to
How do you get destruction out of that??
 
As you can see, I have not been online much lately. I have been doing my homework. I believe that 2nd Peter gives us the best explanation and the easiest to understand. I believe that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genisus 1:1 Something happened, and the earth became void and without form and then God created the earth we live on now.
 
As you can see, I have not been online much lately. I have been doing my homework. I believe that 2nd Peter gives us the best explanation and the easiest to understand. I believe that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genisus 1:1 Something happened, and the earth became void and without form and then God created the earth we live on now.

My take on it is that He spoke it into existence. There was nothing destroyed till Noah’s time. He was just trying to explain to us that there was nothing, it was void/ empty of all that we know of at present. There were waters in heaven, so He is explaining what He is going to do. He spoke everything into existence.

“The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.
God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night.
So the evening and the morning were the first day.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1‬:‭2‬-‭5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

There was nothing destroyed, only created.
 
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I can tell you this that each Letter of the Hebrew Alphabet is also a Numerical Value. In English there's a Letter and then there are Numbers separate from one another. But the language God taught to the Hebrew People was not separate and the same. And when you apply both to the word meaning you have more options to what a single word can mean. And this knowledge wasn't understood centuries ago.
Yes, I know that some languages, including Hebrew, ascribe numerical values to letters. What I question is the idea that those numerical values must be used in order to understand the Old Testament fully. If such a thin were necessary, it is surprising that none of the New Testament epistles, mostly written to non-Hebrews, even mention such a thing, although they often quote from the Old Testament.
 
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I can tell you this that each Letter of the Hebrew Alphabet is also a Numerical Value. In English there's a Letter and then there are Numbers separate from one another. But the language God taught to the Hebrew People was not separate and the same. And when you apply both to the word meaning you have more options to what a single word can mean. And this knowledge wasn't understood centuries ago.


I think it's more important to let the Holy Spirit guide us in studying the Bible because it is more important to Him how we can apply to ourselves and our lives what needs to be learned from it. If God thought it was so important to study the languages, alphabets, numerical value, etc., He would have put more emphasis on it in everyone's study, not just a few.


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The Bible reveals Who created the universe and why, and its description of how jibes very well with the current Big Bang theory.

Not sure why awelight disagreed with saying "the Bible reveals Who created the universe and why, and its description of how jibes very well with the current Big Bang theory" and TruthDefender found it laughable. Seems true and awesome to me.
 
Dear friend, I say this as graciously as I can: If one places stock in the "Big Bang Theory", then that one would have to deny "Creation" as outlined in the Bible. The two can in no way coexist.

The "Big Bang Theory" states, that the material for the Universe always existed. If this was true - then the material for the Universe is an uncaused cause. This is considered scientifically impossible and denies cause and effect. Science attempts to place the Universe where God belongs because science despises the idea of a Devine Being, (Romans 1). ONLY God has existed forever - He is the one and only uncaused cause. The Universe is the effect of the cause - which is God almighty.

Believers need to wakeup and realize that science is no friend of the Word of God. Science is a human intellectual attempt to undermine the TRUTH of God. If one is trying to make the Bible fit into what science wants us to believe are facts, then that one has already begun a journey down a wrong path.

The BBT seeks to explain what occurred a moment after a singularity began expanding, but says nothing about Who created it or why. What you referenced is the oscillating universe theory (OUT), which current science deems to be disproved.

"Science" means knowledge, and there is no contradiction between true physical science and Biblical spiritual truth, but rather we should be amazed that what Moses wrote over 3,000 years ago jibes so well with what science has recently discovered. Christian scientists from astrophysicists to microbiologists attempt to understand how God's universe operates, and there is nothing inherently wrong with that. In fact, the more one understands the how miraculous the universe is, the greater reason one has to believe in its Creator.

IOW, it is quite possible for belief in Creation and the BBT to coexist, but not for Creation and the OUT to exist.
 
Yes, I know that some languages, including Hebrew, ascribe numerical values to letters. What I question is the idea that those numerical values must be used in order to understand the Old Testament fully. If such a thin were necessary, it is surprising that none of the New Testament epistles, mostly written to non-Hebrews, even mention such a thing, although they often quote from the Old Testament.

That’s because it wasn’t devised by men, it’s written by God through man. :)
 
Yes, but it was written by God to reveal truths to men. If the truths could only be fully understood by applying numerology, God would have revealed that in His word.

Ok!?! What about numerology? Did you mean this for me?
 
Sorry if I have misunderstood, but I was replying to your post which you had written in reply to my post, which in turn was in reply to a post from lrs68 about numerology. (That sounds a complicated sentence -sorry!)

Yes, maybe to Irs68. I’m vaguely aware of numerology. If God put it into His writing, it was probably meant to be found for future souls—- who knows(?). Blessings
 
Yes, I know that some languages, including Hebrew, ascribe numerical values to letters. What I question is the idea that those numerical values must be used in order to understand the Old Testament fully. If such a thin were necessary, it is surprising that none of the New Testament epistles, mostly written to non-Hebrews, even mention such a thing, although they often quote from the Old Testament.
The issue about your version of the Bible is you don't get what God passed onto Moses and Others that wasn't written down but passed from generation to generation.

Prime example would be in the Gospel of John he writes if we would mention every miracle Jesus did there wouldn't be enough room in libraries to contain all of the books. So many things Jesus did was passed down from generation to generation and never mentioned or listed in your New Testament.

But what men like Adam, Seth, Enoch, Noah, Moses passed down from God to generation and to generation would read like this:

1. God exists and nothing else exists.
2. God makes a Plan and begins to make it happen.
3. God creates His realm called Heaven and everything in Heaven.
4. God creates the Angels.
5. God decides to create Space and Earth.

Now here's the question.
Where did the null and voided Earth come from before God created it?
Genesis 1:2 tells us God is hovering over Earth.
But where did that Earth come from. God did not create it yet according to the English translation of the Bible.

That Earth came from Verse 1 [Genesis 1:1] God created the heavens and the earth.

The issue for the English translation of the Bible is the Hebrew Language Letters for Genesis 1:1 = the Earth is a completed creation with life. Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel goes into more detail as does Psalms and others in the Prophets and the Poetry sections of the Tanakh.

But God shows up to an earth in Genesis 1:2 that is both existing, it has LAND, and it has WATER {2 things that could only been created in Verse 1} that was covering the face of the earth.

So if we use the English translation of the Bible, that doesn't include how God specializes the Hebrew Language Letters with Numerical Value, WHERE DOES EARTH. LAND, WATER come from before those things were ever created?

If there was NOTHING that existed how does God show up to a earth with land covered with water (that magically is existing)?

Because Genesis 1:1 means Completion.
Earth was completed in Verse 1.
But some how in Verse 2 Earth is a mess that has went from completion to now NULL and VOID.

So how does a completed Earth go from completed to covered in water all by itself.

Clearly Earth, Land, and Water was created before Genesis 1:2.
When were they created?
Verse 1.
 
I think it's more important to let the Holy Spirit guide us in studying the Bible because it is more important to Him how we can apply to ourselves and our lives what needs to be learned from it. If God thought it was so important to study the languages, alphabets, numerical value, etc., He would have put more emphasis on it in everyone's study, not just a few.


🥳
But God did put emphasis on those things because He created the Alphabet and gave it to the Hebrew People who have understood this for 5,000+ years.
 
Prime example would be in the Gospel of John he writes if we would mention every miracle Jesus did there wouldn't be enough room in libraries to contain all of the books. So many things Jesus did was passed down from generation to generation and never mentioned or listed in your New Testament.
That is not what Scripture says.
 
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25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that should be written.
That is not what Scripture says.


Not libraries but the world could not contain.
 
25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that should be written.

Not libraries but the world could not contain.
Not miracles either. Just things He did, which would include miracles but not be exclusively miracles.
 
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Genesis 1:1&2

Verse 1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Verse 2. And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

My question is; Does the bible start off with a lie or do I just not understand some things? Give me a chance to point out some places that make it seem that way.



Isaiah 45 verse 18 for thus sayeth the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be in habitat: I am the Lord; And there is none else.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall My word that goeth forth out of My mouth: it shall not return unto me void but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Please help me understand. Thankyou

I would just say keep searching there is so much more to this yet allot will be just speculation nothing more since its not written about.