Please help me understand

[KeithAB]

I’m pretty sure Peter was eluding to God destroying the earth (land) in Noah’s day.

No 2nd Peter has nothing to do with the flood of Noah. The earth was not without form and void after the flood of Noha. God did not have to go through the 6 days of creation, He did not have to recreate the animals, and He did not have to say "Let us create man in our own image let us create them male and female after the flood of Noah.
Peter is laying out what happened in the beginning, the first earth age when we were all with God; Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Verse 2 of Genesis and the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the waters. 2nd Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water perished. This is what happened in verse 2 of Genesis 1.
2nd Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. This is the world age we live in today and will live in until Jesus returns to set up His kingdom.
This will be where God sets up his eternal Kingdom. What a great and wonderful time to look forward to; A new heaven and a new earth.

 

[TruthDefender]

No 2nd Peter has nothing to do with the flood of Noah. The earth was not without form and void after the flood of Noha. God did not have to go through the 6 days of creation, He did not have to recreate the animals, and He did not have to say "Let us create man in our own image let us create them male and female after the flood of Noah.

Nope, I totally disagree. That phrase that you’re so disparately cleaning to has references; all the references point to the flood in Noah’s day. This is the only time God destroyed man off the face of the earth (land), save 8 people. We all came from those 8 people. After the flood receded, they landed in Turkey.

References:
Gen. 7:11-12, 21-23
Matt. 24:37-39
Luke 17:26-27
2 Peter 2:5

 

[awelight]

The BBT seeks to explain what occurred a moment after a singularity began expanding, but says nothing about Who created it or why. What you referenced is the oscillating universe theory (OUT), which current science deems to be disproved.

"Science" means knowledge, and there is no contradiction between true physical science and Biblical spiritual truth, but rather we should be amazed that what Moses wrote over 3,000 years ago jibes so well with what science has recently discovered. Christian scientists from astrophysicists to microbiologists attempt to understand how God's universe operates, and there is nothing inherently wrong with that. In fact, the more one understands the how miraculous the universe is, the greater reason one has to believe in its Creator.

IOW, it is quite possible for belief in Creation and the BBT to coexist, but not for Creation and the OUT to exist.

You ignored the principle point of my post but that is okay.

You stated: "..rather we should be amazed that what Moses wrote over 3,000 years ago jibes so well with what science has recently discovered." Does this mean, in your mind, that if science had not discovered these things, it would make what Moses wrote less true? If Archeologist were to discover the "Ark", would this make the flood judgement more true?

You also stated: In fact, the more one understands the how miraculous the universe is, the greater reason one has to believe in its Creator . Being amazed and wowed by the Universe - makes ones belief in the Creator stronger. I don't think so. You seem to have a very humanistic way of seeing faith. Faith grows by understanding who God is, by understanding who Jesus Christ is and understanding the Father's eternal plan and covenant. This can only be found in the Holy Words of God - Not through some science lesson.

Additionally, faith says: everything God has revealed in His Word is Truth and the sciences can only, at best, find some tangible evidence of these historical facts already laid down. Science in no way validates, proves or clarifies what God has revealed.

 

[DavidLamb]

EVERY TIME "Tohu, and Bohu" (Without form and void) are found in Scripture, it's the catastrophic result of God's JUDGEMENT upon earth. So the existence of at least one pre-Adamic judgement is implied. We really DON'T KNOW how many "creations" have occurred on this dirt ball. We only know of the last one that we're living in now.

However, the bible tells us that sin entered the world through one man, Adam, as you say:

“Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.” (Ro 5:12-14 NKJV)

If sin entered through Adam, what was the pre-Adamic world being judged for?

 

[TruthDefender]

However, the bible tells us that sin entered the world through one man, Adam, as you say:

“Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.” (Ro 5:12-14 NKJV)

If sin entered through Adam, what was the pre-Adamic world being judged for?

You’re adding to Scripture. It didn’t exist.

 

[Magenta]

John was referring to the miracles Jesus did (there were so many that there would not be enough paper or books to put them in).

Please list book, chapter, and verse to back up your statement; otherwise you’re making up stuff.

You’re adding to Scripture.

 

[TruthDefender]

Please list book, chapter, and verse to back up your statement; otherwise you’re making up stuff.

You’re adding to Scripture.

“And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book;”
‭‭John‬ ‭20‬:‭30‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.”
‭‭John‬ ‭21‬:‭25‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Magenta]

“And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book;”
‭‭John‬ ‭20‬:‭30‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.”
‭‭John‬ ‭21‬:‭25‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

The verse under consideration is John 21:25 and it is not just concerning miracles. It is the
close of John's entire gospel, which is not just a record of the miracles Jesus did either.

You’re adding to Scripture.

 

[TruthDefender]

The verse under consideration is John 21:25 and it is not just concerning miracles. It is the
close of John's entire gospel, which is not just a record of the miracles Jesus did either.

You’re adding to Scripture.

How can I be adding to Scripture when I’m using Scripture? Lol

We were NOT discussing John’s entire summation, we were discussing that verse which I listed Jn. 21:25, and the meaning therein. He was eluding to Jesus’ wonders being so many that the world could not contain the books. Pretty simple….

The other verse was its reference.

 

[Magenta]

How can I be adding to Scripture when I’m using Scripture? Lol

We were NOT discussing John’s entire summation, we were discussing that verse which I listed Jn. 21:25, and the meaning therein. He was eluding to Jesus’ wonders being so many that the world could not contain the books. Pretty simple….

The other verse was its reference.

You added to John 21:25. The verse is the close of John's gospel. Are you denying this? It is the very last verse
of the chapter and book, excluding the "amen". You want to make it a reference back to a verse a chapter earlier,
which mentions signs so you can say the things mentioned Jesus did a chapter later are only signs. Jesus did more
than miracles. The gospel of John is not just about the signs and miracles Jesus did. You need to change your user name.

 

[TruthDefender]

You added to John 21:25. The verse is the close of John's gospel. Are you denying this? It is the very last verse
of the chapter and book, excluding the "amen". You want to make it a reference back to a verse a chapter earlier,
which mentions signs so you can say the things mentioned Jesus did a chapter later are only signs. Jesus did more
than miracles. The gospel of John is not just about the signs and miracles Jesus did. You need to change your user name.

Aah comprehension is the problem here! Do you not understand what I wrote? You are definitely NOT understanding what I’m even saying:

-This initial conversation wasn’t about John’s summation. It has nothing to do with what you’re interjecting; we weren’t even talking about the gospel of John. It was only about verse 25.

-I never said what you stated (The gospel of John is not just about the signs and miracles Jesus did); because I was only discussing that one verse, 25.

-You’re very cheeky for someone who misunderstands, and is getting it wrong!!

You added to John 21:25. The verse is the close of John's gospel. Are you denying this? It is the very last verse
of the chapter and book, excluding the "amen". You want to make it a reference back to a verse a chapter earlier,
which mentions signs so you can say the things mentioned Jesus did a chapter later are only signs. Jesus did more
than miracles. The gospel of John is not just about the signs and miracles Jesus did. You need to change your user name.

Aah comprehension is the problem here! Do you not understand what I wrote? You are definitely NOT understanding what I’m even saying:

-This initial conversation wasn’t about John’s summation. It has nothing to do with what you’re interjecting; we weren’t even talking about the gospel of John. It was only about verse 25.

-I never said what you stated (The gospel of John is not just about the signs and miracles Jesus did); because I was only discussing that one verse, 25.

-You’re very cheeky for someone who misunderstands, and is getting it wrong!!
But aye, I forgive you anyway!

 

[Magenta]

It was only about verse 25

Exactly. And verse 25 does not say what you claim it does. You add to Scripture.

John was referring to the miracles Jesus did (there were so many that there would not be enough paper or books to put them in).

John 21:25 does not say signs, does not say miracles. You are adding to Scripture.

 

[TruthDefender]

Exactly. And verse 25 does not say what you claim it does. You add to Scripture.

You’re adding by twisting my words and falsely accusing me of something I didn’t do!!

 

[Magenta]

You’re adding by twisting my words and falsely accusing me of something I didn’t do!!

You did say this, and now claim I am falsely accusing you?

John was referring to the miracles Jesus did (there were so many that there would not be enough paper or books to put them in).

John 21:25 does not mention either signs or miracles.

 

[TruthDefender]

You did say this, and now claim I am falsely accusing you?


John 21:25 does not mention either signs or miracles.

Yes I am and you’re very cheeky! You refuse to understand what I’m saying and have twisted my statements falsely accusing me of adding, when I didn’t; it’s your misunderstanding and error.

 

[Magenta]

Yes I am and you’re very cheeky! You refuse to understand what I’m saying and have twisted my statements falsely accusing me of adding, when I didn’t; it’s your misunderstanding and error.

John 21:25 does not mention signs or miracles. Your claim is that the "things" mentioned in that verse refer to miracles. I understand very well that you are falsely accusing me and denying what you said. Not a good match with your chosen user name. I suggest you change it.

John was referring to the miracles Jesus did (there were so many that there would not be enough paper or books to put them in).

 

[TruthDefender]

John 21:25 does not mention either signs or miracles. Your claim is that the "things" mentioned in that verse refer to miracles. I understand very well that you are falsely accusing me and denying what you said. Not a good match with your chosen user name. I suggest you change it.

Cheekiness and falsely accusing people are not a noble stance for Christians! You might want to take a remedial reading course before pointing the finger!!

 

[Magenta]

Cheekiness and falsely accusing people are not a noble stance for Christians! You might want to take a remedial reading course before pointing the finger!!

I agree. You really ought to stop but it does not seem likely at all that you will even though
anybody with eyes to see can comprehend that you said the very thing you are denying.
John 21:25 does not mention miracles. It does not mention signs. It is the closing of John's gospel.

John was referring to the miracles Jesus did (there were so many that there would not be enough paper or books to put them in).

 

[TruthDefender]

I agree. You really ought to stop but it does not seem likely at all that you will even though
anybody with eyes to see can comprehend that you said the very thing you are denying.
John 21:25 does not mention miracles. It does not mention signs. It is the closing of John's gospel.

I’m just not taking a verse at random like you seem to think. The NKJV makes a reference to that last verse, which you’re missing. Do you not understand inferences? Common sense! You might want to pray for some.

 

[Magenta]

I’m just not taking a verse at random like you seem to think. The NKJV makes a reference to that last verse, which you’re missing. Do you not understand inferences? Common sense! You might want to pray for some.

You connected the two verses, but that does not mean John 21:25 is only about miracles.

I did not miss that you made that connection between two verses however far apart they are, one chapter to the next, gosh, you
could connect it to anything you wanted that way, but that does not mean it is a valid connection or the only possible meaning.

Bye for now.