Assurance of Salvation

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
HeIsHere said:
13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while = kairos, but in the time = kairos of testing they fall away.

"They believe"

I accept to mean what it states.

The real question is what are they falling away from?
Click to expand...

That's the easier one to answer. I've inserted the Greek words to show Luke is clearly speaking of a time in both clauses to show they revolt/withdraw from the believing.

I think you asked the real question in the beginning and that you'd need to ponder the answer to your own question and the implications for believe > saved and how the verb and the noun forms of the word are used and defined throughout.
 
studier said:
I hope this answers you mainly re: what you say is "most peculiar" to you: Assuming the continuing discussion re: assurance, reflecting on Scriptures like 1John3:3 and the idea of purifying ourselves in light of the future He has clearly communicated to His sons, I see the biblical relationship as cooperative: God provides assurance and works in us through His Word, Spirit, and in Christ, and we live that out by actively responding, pursuing holiness, and purifying ourselves. This lived relationship is part of the assurance, which also speaks, in my view, to the nature of biblical faith.
Click to expand...

1 John 3:3 I noticed the peculiarity in that the possibility struck me that the purification (purifies; present indicative active, occurs by having (has: present participle active) 'this hope in Jesus,' considering my perception of faith as the result of believing in the hope.
 
MsMediator said:
I have noticed, among self-acknowleged Christians, some Christians take the "Woohoo, I'm saved!" outlook, whereas other Christians still have a sincere fear of going to hell. The first group seems to be more carefree and without fear, whereas the second group still a bit unsure and cannot answer with 100 percent certainty if they are saved. The second group tends to be more fearful that Jesus will say that they did not do enough. Who is right? Or is the answer somewhere in between? Please support with Scripture. Which group are you in? I tend to be in the first group, but I can also see the second group's view.
Click to expand...

1Jo 3:14
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

I was saved by Jesus when I put my trust in Him and He gave me the Holy Spirit to dwell in me and enable me to commune with God and to empower me to have victory over sin, the flesh, the world and the devil through practising by faith the love of Jesus for others.

Rom 7:24
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
etc.

Salvation is being saved from an Adamic lifestyle that leads to and spreads sin and death, and being empowered to live by faith a Christ-like life of love that leads to righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

I am being saved as long as I am loving my Christian siblings. If I stop loving my siblings, I need to remember the gracious love of God for me expressed in the cross, and recommit to responding to that undeserved love by sharing that gracious love with undeserving others.

If I die walking in love, I can be assured I will be raised at the last day to inherit the kingdom of God on earth in the millennium. I am not supposed to have assurance of salvation when I am living mercilessly and unlovingly towards others.
 
Mem said:
1 John 3:3 I noticed the peculiarity in that the possibility struck me that the purification (purifies; present indicative active, occurs by having (has: present participle active) 'this hope in Jesus,' considering my perception of faith as the result of believing in the hope.
Click to expand...

There is indeed a flow to all of this. This is how I see it in 1John3:1-4: God’s love calls us His children and reveals a future of extraordinary transformation. Everyone who has this hope - this revealed future in Christ - purifies himself from sin and lawlessness. This purification is part of our ongoing faith-pistis: relational allegiance that obeys, endures, loves and imitates Him.
 
studier said:
That's the easier one to answer. I've inserted the Greek words to show Luke is clearly speaking of a time in both clauses to show they revolt/withdraw from the believing.

I think you asked the real question in the beginning and that you'd need to ponder the answer to your own question and the implications for believe > saved and how the verb and the noun forms of the word are used and defined throughout.
Click to expand...

Spiritual Salvation is a one time completed event.
 
studier said:
It's striking how many modifiers get added to the Text. Does non-rooted believing that is revolted/withdrawn from result in "Spiritual Salvation" whatever the definition of that is?
Click to expand...

I state "spiritual salvation" because "saved" can be attached to various concepts in scripture.

Being born from above in Christ Jesus is spiritual salvation. It takes one of act of faith in Him and His work on our behalf.

An singular event in time that occurs only once in time, the gift of salvation means we have a status of justified by God which can never be revoked by behaviour, or lack of works or lack of fruit.

If they believed, then they believed. The parable states persecution caused them to fall away not that their initial faith and trust was insufficient.

What was insufficient was their lack of growing in the faith so they could withstand persecution.

That is true grace, no strings attached.
 
HeIsHere said:
I state "spiritual salvation" because "saved" can be attached to various concepts in scripture.

Being born from above in Christ Jesus is spiritual salvation. It takes one of act of faith in Him and His work on our behalf.

An singular event in time that occurs only once in time, the gift of salvation means we have a status of justified by God which can never be revoked by behaviour, or lack of works or lack of fruit.

If they believed, then they believed. The parable states persecution caused them to fall away not that their initial faith and trust was insufficient.

What was insufficient was their lack of growing in the faith so they could withstand persecution.

That is true grace, no strings attached.
Click to expand...

The parable says they believed — but only temporarily - and then revolted. That’s not a failure to grow, it’s a failure to endure. The Text never speaks of ‘spiritual salvation’ - that’s a system-inserted modifier, not a biblical term.
 
studier said:
The parable says they believed — but only temporarily - and then revolted. That’s not a failure to grow, it’s a failure to endure. The Text never speaks of ‘spiritual salvation’ - that’s a system-inserted modifier, not a biblical term.
Click to expand...

What did they believe then?
 
HeIsHere said:
What did they believe then?
Click to expand...
There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly belief resulting in salvation." Hence, no root and no fruit. People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation.
 
mailmandan said:
There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly belief resulting in salvation." Hence, no root and no fruit. People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation.
Click to expand...

How long is the stage?

Or is it a singular event in time, like most evangelicals used to believe?
 
mailmandan said:
There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly belief resulting in salvation." Hence, no root and no fruit. People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation.
Click to expand...

Also how exactly does the belief fall short?

Are you asserting the the lack of future "fruit" means God does not accept the belief as authentic?

Faith has an object and if the person places their faith in Christ Jesus for salvation they are saved, it is not based on future performance.
 
mailmandan said:
Its about falling short in the progress of reaching consummated belief, resulting in salvation.
Click to expand...

It states they believed.

The point I think is about going on to maturity, the main message of the letters.

Also can we accept God's grace in allowing people to fail, even after they have fully trusted in His Good News.

I can.
 
HeIsHere said:
Also how exactly does the belief fall short?

Are you asserting the the lack of future "fruit" means God does not accept the belief as authentic?

Faith has an object and if the person places their faith in Christ Jesus for salvation they are saved, it is not based on future performance.
Click to expand...
The belief falls short of trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. The lack of future fruit demonstrates there is no root. Faith without works is dead. All genuine believers are fruitful but not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23) Those who produce no fruit at all demonstrate they are not truly converted. (James 2:14)
 
mailmandan said:
The belief falls short of trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. The lack of future fruit demonstrates there is no root. Faith without works is dead. All genuine believers are fruitful but not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23) Those who produce no fruit at all demonstrate they are not truly converted. (James 2:14)
Click to expand...

Would you consider fruit and works synonymous or are they different?
 
HeIsHere said:
It states they believed.

The point I think is about going on to maturity, the main message of the letters.

Also can we accept God's grace in allowing people to fail, even after they have fully trusted in His Good News.

I can.
Click to expand...
Its says they believe (pisteuo) in Luke 8:13, yet in James 2:19, it also says the demons believe (pisteuo) but they are not saved. If they had saving belief in Luke 8:13, then why no root and where is the fruit?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back