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Hello @Winslow89, yes, I would say that this is true of v19, generally speaking, that is.
I have no more time to talk right now, but I will leave you with the following to consider (it's commentary on v19 from a favorite theologian of mine, John Stott).
God bless you!!
~Deuteronomy (David)
I have no more time to talk right now, but I will leave you with the following to consider (it's commentary on v19 from a favorite theologian of mine, John Stott).
19. The many antichrists who have already come (in contrast to the one antichrist who shall come) are now identified as human teachers. They are no doubt the same as the ‘many false prophets’ of
1 John 4:1 (cf. our Lord’s combination of ‘false Christs and false prophets’ in Mark 13:22). They have left the church to which John is writing, perhaps because they have failed to win over the church leaders to their viewpoint. They have excommunicated themselves. John distinguishes sharply between the they who have left and the us who remain. They went out (exēlthan) from us. By their defection they have given clear evidence of their true character. In fact, their withdrawal was ‘anticipated by Judas Iscariot, who “went out” (exēlthen) from the company of Jesus and the disciples in the upper room (John 13:30a …)’ (Smalley, p. 102). Just so, the false teachers did not really belong to us. So certain is John of this fact that he adds the hypothesis: if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us.
John not only relates the fact of their departure from the fellowship, but discerns a purpose in it. The heretics went out of their own volition, but behind the secession was the divine purpose that the spurious should be ‘made manifest’ (AV) (phanerōthōsin) lest the elect should be led astray (Matt. 24:24). Their departure was ‘their unmasking’ (Law). What is counterfeit cannot remain for ever hidden (cf. 1 Cor. 3:13; 1 Cor. 4:5). ‘There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known’ (Luke 12:2).
Light is shed by this verse upon two important doctrines: the perseverance of the saints and the nature of the church. ‘He who stands firm to the end will be saved’ (Mark 13:13), not because salvation is the reward of endurance, but because endurance is the hallmark of the saved. If the false teachers had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. This is stated as a principle. Those who belong to us stay with us. Future and final perseverance is the ultimate test of a past participation in Christ (cf. Heb. 3:14). ‘Those who fall away’, on the other hand, ‘have never been thoroughly imbued with the knowledge of Christ but only had a slight and passing taste of it’ (Calvin).
This verse also gives biblical warrant for some distinction between the visible and the invisible church. Granted that God intends his church to be visibly manifest in local worshipping, witnessing fellowships, this does not mean that all the professing baptized, communicant members of the church are necessarily members of Christ. Only the Lord knows ‘those who are his’ (2 Tim. 2:19). Perhaps most visible-church members are also members of the invisible church, the mystical body of Christ, but some are not. They are with us yet do not really belong to us. They share our earthly company but not our heavenly birth. Only on the final day of separation will the wheat and the tares be completely revealed. Meanwhile, some are shown up in their true colours by their defection. Cf. 1 John 3:10 for a manifestation in moral behaviour. ~Stott, J. R. W. (1988). The Letters of John: An Introduction and Commentary (Vol. 19, pp. 108–110). InterVarsity Press.
God bless you!!
~Deuteronomy (David)
No. In that particular case I think John is referring to gnostics who professed faith in Christ, but deviated from the true faith into vain imaginations. In other words, they believed, but were not following the same spirit
I hate this kind of Christian reasoning. Both are true; they are not exclusive.
No, only some people. 1John 2:9 does not contradict Hebrews 6:4-6, 10:35-39 and 14 other passages
that indicate the possibility of apostasy.
A person who claims to be a Christian but who is behaving in an ungodly (unloving, untruthful) manner
may be in one of the following categories:
a. a normally loving person observed during a rare moment when he/she acted uncharacteristically (Phil. 3:12-16),
b. an immature Believer, who is making progress–you should have known him/her a year ago! (1Cor. 3:1-3, Eph. 4:11-15)
c. a truthseeker who has not yet learned the correct interpretation of God’s Word (1Cor. 6:9-11, Eph. 5:8-9), or
d. a pseudo-Christian (Matt. 7:21, 1John 2:19), who may affirm morality while rejecting its divine rationale.
e. an apostate (Heb. 6:4-6, 10:23-39), who once believed but became blasphemous or foolish and ship-wrecked their faith (1Tim. 1:19-20).
I love this kind of Christian reasoning:
“not because salvation is the reward of endurance, but because endurance is the hallmark of the saved.”
We hold fast to sound doctrine rooted in the knowledge, understanding and wisdom of God’s Truth that is evidence of God’s Love for us.
God has saved us, it is absolutely impossible for us to save ourselves or do anything to keep ourselves saved… this is God’s Work alone.
The good works we do are simply evidence of our salvation in Christ Jesus our Savior, Lord, and King and evidence of our love for Him alone.
Thank you, Dueteronomy.
“not because salvation is the reward of endurance, but because endurance is the hallmark of the saved.”
We hold fast to sound doctrine rooted in the knowledge, understanding and wisdom of God’s Truth that is evidence of God’s Love for us.
God has saved us, it is absolutely impossible for us to save ourselves or do anything to keep ourselves saved… this is God’s Work alone.
The good works we do are simply evidence of our salvation in Christ Jesus our Savior, Lord, and King and evidence of our love for Him alone.
Thank you, Dueteronomy.
W
Winslow89
Guest
@ChristRoseFromTheDead, @GWH, the verse doesn’t teach those who left were never saved? It’s interesting the verse says “they went out”, but in order to go out of something wouldn’t you first have to be in it?
Not necessarily. I encourage you to read the Scriptures as you ponder the points I provided in #5.
Then discuss each point and Scripture specifically.
While with the gospel of grace believers have eternal life and assurance of salvation for those in the body of Christ, the gospel of the kingdom for Israel required perseverance.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Wider context:
1 John 2:18-23 KJV - 8 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
This is about antichrist belief of those who went out from them..
Who denies the Son and hath not the Father.
On first look it's of those who never believed.
1 John 2:18-23 KJV - 8 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
This is about antichrist belief of those who went out from them..
Who denies the Son and hath not the Father.
On first look it's of those who never believed.
Saved is a misused word that people really don't take the time to fully understand or define. Saved out of doesn't mean saved into. For example, the people of Israel were saved out of Egypt, but many of those were not saved into the promised land due to unbelief. That is a warning to all of us.
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. Jude 1:5
Yes and No… the ones that leave their faith in Jesus Christ and NEVER return are not believers.
True believers operating in their flesh will take off running when persecution hits. lol! The flesh is always self-promoting and trying to save itself.
The more a true believer gets filled with God’s Word and Holy Spirit, and learns to operate by the Spirit, persecution won’t bother them and they will holdfast to their faith in Jesus Christ alone.
Peter is a great example… Jesus tried to warn Peter that his faith was about to be tested…
And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”
Then He said, “I tell you, Peter, the rooster shall not crow this day before you will deny three times that you know Me.” But he said to Him, “Lord, I am ready to go with You, both to prison and to death.”
https://www.biblegateway.com/passag...Luke.22.32,Luke.22.34,Luke.22.33&version=NKJV
W
Winslow89
Guest
Heartbreaking
Yes, very heartbreaking… spiritual suicide… the walking dead…
To walk away from Jesus Christ as Savior, Lord and King is…. death, here and eternally.
That means no one can have confidence they are/were saved until they die before/without leaving!
1 John 2:19 - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. That sounds crystal clear to me.
You’ll know you are saved because the Holy Spirit will bear witness (confirm/establish) with your spirit (innermost being, NOT human reasoning or logic) that you are saved. It’s not a logical dialogue, it’s a spiritual understanding and knowing… the Holy Spirit speaks directly to your spirit and you know it is True, you are saved.
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom.8.15,Rom.8.16&version=NKJV
If you are not sure if you are saved, simply talk to God… repent of all your sins, receive the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ. His Blood removes your sins and His Body gives you the Righteousness of God. All your fear, guilt and shame is gone.
You are sealed with God’s Holy Spirit, get water baptized as an outward public confession of your faith in Jesus Christ and evidence you are in blood covenant with Him.
Ask the Father, in the Name of Jesus Christ for the Gift of the Holy Spirit to be released inside of you and be filled with the Holy Spirit - the power of God to witness of Jesus Christ in the Earth.
Study God’s Word with the Holy Spirit… He will teach you.