Is pistis a passive word in the context or is pistis an active word in the N.T usage?
Assurance of Salvation
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Is pistis a passive word in the context or is pistis an active word in the N.T usage?
Can you tell me how you understand the following verses?
John 15:5-6
I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit,
for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as
a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
You describe trust and entrust as “similar,” but trusting in Christ is not the same as actively entrusting oneself to Him — believing or trusting is not necessarily the same as an active handover of oneself. Is there any Scripture that actually teaches we entrust ourselves to Christ for salvation as you describe? The BibleHub note you referenced relies on a Strong’s gloss but provides no textual example. Thayer’s Lexicon on the same webpage also mentions entrusting for pisteuō, yet again without Scripture showing we actively entrust ourselves to Christ. Can you clarify how you connect this to actual biblical usage? Remember, we are trying to define pisteuō and pistis biblically. If the Bible does not teach entrusting ourselves, I would be hesitant to include it in the definition.
If you read scripture, there should be no uncertainty that you 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝗯𝗲𝗲𝗻 saved. When God calls you and you hear the gospel of salvation, and you believe, you are instantly baptized with the Holy Spirit and immersed in the family of God. Scripture is filled with assurances: once you are saved, it's a done deal. You won't ever lose that salvation. So if anyone doubts that, they must not read scripture.
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Rom 10)
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. (Acts 10)
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” ( John 6)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝘄𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝘀𝗲𝗮𝗹𝗲𝗱 𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗵 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗛𝗼𝗹𝘆 𝗦𝗽𝗶𝗿𝗶𝘁 𝗼𝗳 𝗽𝗿𝗼𝗺𝗶𝘀𝗲, 𝟭𝟰 𝘄𝗵𝗼 𝗶𝘀 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗴𝘂𝗮𝗿𝗮𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗲 𝗼𝗳 𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗶𝗻𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗶𝘁𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. (Eph 1)
8 For by grace you 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝗯𝗲𝗲𝗻 saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, (Eph
5 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building (glorified body) from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation (glorified body) which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a 𝗴𝘂𝗮𝗿𝗮𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗲. 6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. (2 Cor 5)
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Rom 10)
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. (Acts 10)
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” ( John 6)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝘄𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝘀𝗲𝗮𝗹𝗲𝗱 𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗵 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗛𝗼𝗹𝘆 𝗦𝗽𝗶𝗿𝗶𝘁 𝗼𝗳 𝗽𝗿𝗼𝗺𝗶𝘀𝗲, 𝟭𝟰 𝘄𝗵𝗼 𝗶𝘀 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗴𝘂𝗮𝗿𝗮𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗲 𝗼𝗳 𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗶𝗻𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗶𝘁𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. (Eph 1)
8 For by grace you 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝗯𝗲𝗲𝗻 saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, (Eph
5 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building (glorified body) from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation (glorified body) which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a 𝗴𝘂𝗮𝗿𝗮𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗲. 6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. (2 Cor 5)
Pretty straightforward. Those who abide produce fruit; those who don't are cut off.
"Messiah" means "anointed one", referring to the one God chose to atone for sin by the sacrifice of himself that was foreshadowed by the Mosaic ceremonial laws and alluded to in some prophecies, which is the NT understanding, although some such as Judas expected a political instead of a spiritual leader.
And yes, I understand those NT verses to define pistis.
So how do we understand the usage of pistis in Ephesians 2:8 then apply pistis to John 15?
John 15:4-6
Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine,
so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides
in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does
not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them
into the fire and they are burned.
I don't think one can lift Ephesians 2:8 out of the context of the N.T because the N.T is heavily
contextual.
It would be a brave person that rested on Ephesian 2:8 and ignored John 15:4-6.
There is a direct correlation between faith and the resulting works, fruit, love, perseverance.
I am. The preservation of the saints is guaranteed by Jesus. He who begins the good work in us will continue to perform it. Nothing can take us out of His hands.
From a human perspective, we are to apply ourselves with all that is within us. From the divine perspective, God has secured us from the beginning.
What happens if you taper off after ten years and don't apply yourself anymore?
John 15:5-6
I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit,
for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as
a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
Can you explain John 15:5-6?
Then it's not 100% faith/belief, because the person can have quite significant doubts about the safely of the plane and its ability to get them to the destination, but the alternative to not trusting the plane and pilot may be more terrifying or unpleasant than taking the risk. So, based on you analogy, 100% faith is not required. Just putting sufficient faith in the plane and pilot to get one on the plane.
The wider context clearly warns Christians that they were bought at a tremendous price.
Consequently, they must persevere even if it means death, they must behave themselves at all times.
Ephesian 2:8 is the platform on which we stand, of course.
But we do not discard a mountain of scripture that describes and warns us against living in the flesh.
I know what you mean. Some folks seem to be too intellectual for their own good.
Of course not. We are are to walk according to the Spirit. But if we belong to Christ, He will preserve us.
I know what you mean. Some folks seem to be too intellectual for their own good.
cc: @GRACE_ambassador
Thanks for the discussion. At this point, these simple statements reflect at least four kinds of fallacious reasoning. I understand the desire to keep things simple, but sometimes “simplicity” gets mistaken for avoiding accuracy. When someone dismisses deeper study as “too intellectual,” that isn’t protecting faith - it’s protecting misunderstanding. God didn’t inspire His Word in English, so taking the time to understand what He actually said in Greek or Hebrew - and to see His truth within its original culture and fullness - is an act of reverence. 2Tim2:15