Eternal punishment in hell for the wicked?

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I will just say, that either way is possible. I think there is room for both views, but I'm not entirely certain. I lean for the end of the wicked and not eternal pain and misery. That is beyond what I could possibly could imagine. Just so sad, if that's true.

Just think 20 trillion years from now, that is just really the beginning of the pain for the wicked?!?! They stiff have eternity to go. I will say, I don't know for sure, but pray for mercy for the lost.

Also what will make it worse for the unsaved is their loved ones who get saved might no longer remember them?

Revelation 21:4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

No more mourning, crying and pain? I wonder how God will do that? Because I'd be devastated at the loss of loved ones that didn't make it. So that's why I think God would make us forget them. Does anyone know?


🕊

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Also, Jesus said it will be by the works that people will be judged, in the day of judgement. So if their works are evil, then evil judgement will happen.

I believe because Jesus said it will be by our works we are judged, I think this could mean some people might have forgiveness, in the life to come.

For unbelievers who depend/trust/believe that Jesus' atonement on the cross was not sufficient, so they have to add their works: They will be judged according to their works.

Revelation chapter 20 describes this dreadful judgement.

10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Verses:
10. Satan and the false prophet are cast first into the Lake if Fire and Brimstone

11. The Great White Throne Judgement is for the lost, the spiritually dead only. This is an important distinction from the first 3 chapters of the Lord Jesus' judgement and evaluation of His churches. Please get this one all important point. We are saved by the grace (undeserved, unearned kindness of God). We receive salvation through faith, Not by works. See Ephesians 2:8 KJV and Ephesians 2:9 KJV

12. &13. On the other hand, those who choose to believe in the Lord plus+works = NO gift of God(NO Everlasting Life).
God will therefore judge those according to their works for salvation and every last one of them will fail that judgement.
A sinner canNot turn from those sins to atone for them anymore than give up pleasurable snack foods for Lent and expect those deeds to earn them a place with God.
Jesus Christ, the sinless substitute, is the only one Who is capable of earning our place in heaven for us.

14. Describes the resurrection of the spiritually dead and those in Hell. This is the place they are now. In that future judgement, they will all be thrown into the Lake of Fire after their appeal trial of their good works. They will remain classified as sinners at that point. This will be even those who told a lie, were fearful and unbelieving.

21:8
8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[Citizen]

Is hell a place where the unbelievers burn every day for eternity, or something that is quick and remains until eternity?

If punishment isn't eternal and everlasting, then life isn't eternal and everlasting, either. Can't have one without the other since God says both are eternal -

Matt 25:41 Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.’ 46 Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Daniel 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

Rev 20:10-12, Mk 9:47-48, Rev 14:9-11...

I know some will not accept eternal punishment because it doesn't fit their personal view of God. We should be conforming our views to the reality of Who God is, not what we personally prefer Him to be.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

If punishment isn't eternal and everlasting, then life isn't eternal and everlasting, either. Can't have one without the other since God says both are eternal -

Matt 25:41 Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.’ 46 Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Daniel 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

Rev 20:10-12, Mk 9:47-48, Rev 14:9-11...

I know some will not accept eternal punishment because it doesn't fit their personal view of God. We should be conforming our views to the reality of Who God is, not what we personally prefer Him to be.

I really wish this weren't true.
However, wishful thinking never made them come true.

 

[Citizen]

I really wish this weren't true.
However, wishful thinking never made them come true.

I agree with you. It's horrifying to think about, but God has spoken. I simply trust in His righteous, perfect will and judgment to save or condemn as He sees fit.

 

[Citizen]

No more mourning, crying and pain? I wonder how God will do that? Because I'd be devastated at the loss of loved ones that didn't make it. So that's why I think God would make us forget them. Does anyone know?

I think you are correct.

Isaiah 65:17 “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind."

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I think you are correct.

Isaiah 65:17 “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind."

Maybe that means the unsaved will forget us too then? I hope so, to make their pain less.


🕊

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Maybe that means the unsaved will forget us too then? I hope so, to make their pain less.


🕊

I sure wish that were true.
See verse 27 forward.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Luke-Chapter-16/

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I sure wish that were true.
See verse 27 forward.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Luke-Chapter-16/

Isn't this a parable though? Doesn’t matter. As long as we don't end up there!


🕊

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Isn't this a parable though? Doesn’t matter. As long as we don't end up there!


🕊

One of the distinction between parables and eye witness accounts is the following.

Jesus mentions a common illustration of soil, seed, a king, etc. However, In this description Jesus cites historical figures that are previously verified by His word.
Abraham is not a nondescript landowner. He is mentioned by name as is the begger Lazarus.

Then Jesus goes into the description of Hell having torments and flames and thirst. A parable uses the abstract to represent something specific.
If torments, flames, thirst and a fear for one's family are the abstract, then what concrete reality are these describing?

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

I agree with you. It's horrifying to think about, but God has spoken. I simply trust in His righteous, perfect will and judgment to save or condemn as He sees fit.

9The Lord is ...not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Everyone has a choice of whether or not they trust the Lord for Salvation or decide to go their own way. What this does is motivate me to share The Gospel with others.
I followed a pastor for over a decade. As time went on, I wondered why he wasn't enthusiastic about getting people saved. I eventually discovered that he was a closet Calvinist who's teaching removed the choice from each individual and put it all in God's hands. I wondered why he was stone faced about my ministry to the lost. There was no reaction when I reported on others getting saved or sharing with him my new tract. Getting someone saved from Hell to a new destiny in Heaven is worth more than all the riches in the world.
This is why I have been posting gospel messages to the newbies and those who may be Uncertain.

 

[GWH]

If punishment isn't eternal and everlasting, then life isn't eternal and everlasting, either. Can't have one without the other since God says both are eternal -

Matt 25:41 Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.’ 46 Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Daniel 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

Rev 20:10-12, Mk 9:47-48, Rev 14:9-11...

I know some will not accept eternal punishment because it doesn't fit their personal view of God. We should be conforming our views to the reality of Who God is, not what we personally prefer Him to be.

God also says God is just (2Thes. 1:6a, cf. Rom. 3:25-26 & 9:14, Deut. 32:4, Psa. 36:6, Luke 11:42, Rev. 15:3), so explanations of God’s Word should not impugn God’s justice and love for all people (Joel 2:13, John 3:16). Hell is the just consequence for choosing evil rather than God. The Spirit of God is good: love, peace and joy (Gal. 5:22-23). Therefore, whoever rejects the Lord is spiritually separated from Him (Isa. 59:2) and thereby chooses the evil or satanic spirit of hatred, strife and misery and reaps the just consequence called “hell” in the afterlife (Gal. 6:7-9, Heb. 9:27-28). These options were presented by Moses to the Israelites (DT 30:19), and Jesus referred to this fundamental choice in terms of a fish or egg versus a snake or scorpion (Luke 11:11-13).

Evil people grieve God and punish/torture themselves by experiencing delayed karma (Rom. 2:5-11), just as those who experience appropriate justice during this earthly existence also punish themselves or reap what they have sown and send themselves to jail. This view makes souls responsible for breaking the rules rather than blaming evil on the judges (or Judge) who enforce the rules.

The purpose of earthly punishment is to promote repentance, but the reason for retribution in hell is to attain justice. It is difficult to imagine, but somehow even someone as evil as Hitler will receive perfect justice, perhaps experiencing the agony of the millions of deaths he caused in accordance with the principal of “eye for eye” (MT 5:38), after which their souls are destroyed forever (per John 17:12, Rom. 9:22, Gal. 6:8, Phil. 3:19, 2Thes. 1:9, 2Pet. 3:7 & Rev. 20:13-14).

We should conform our views to this righteous reality of God, not what our sinful hatred projects onto Him using proof-texts.

 

[homwardbound]

God's primary judgement is either you are alive in Christ or not. Those who are alive are judged in what amounts to an awards ceremony. Each believer is rewarded according to his/her (spiritual) works.

The unbeliever appears before the Great White Throne judgement. He is spiritually dead. God will punish the unbeliever according to his/her works also. There is a place called the outer darkness, which implies that there is degrees of judgement. What ever that means, it will not be good. The rich man and Lazarus account should make all unbelievers tremble. But they love their sin and prefer to gamble with their eternal destiny.

There is something called the second death. No unbeliever escapes it.

So, any one of self flesh works, better be better than that of the Pharisees!
Matthew 5:20. Those that choose self being first born with the knowledge of good and evil, to choose God or self. God judges these peoples' responses to having good and evil in the first birth of flesh. Yet, Son did that for all first, done at that cross once for all to believe and be freed in love and mercy given them by Son's done work done for all first. The same as given to others, thanks to Father and Son for them. Those that will stand as in Col 1:21-23 tells us all.
I see Job in the book of Job, stood in beleif and learned from mistakes made. I see Father Calling us all through son to learn daily willingly too. No more accusing of self or others either anymore.
Too busy daily in the love and mercy given to love all in the same as given first by Son John 13:34

 

[GWH]

God also says God is just (2Thes. 1:6a, cf. Rom. 3:25-26 & 9:14, Deut. 32:4, Psa. 36:6, Luke 11:42, Rev. 15:3), so explanations of God’s Word should not impugn God’s justice and love for all people (Joel 2:13, John 3:16). Hell is the just consequence for choosing evil rather than God. The Spirit of God is good: love, peace and joy (Gal. 5:22-23). Therefore, whoever rejects the Lord is spiritually separated from Him (Isa. 59:2) and thereby chooses the evil or satanic spirit of hatred, strife and misery and reaps the just consequence called “hell” in the afterlife (Gal. 6:7-9, Heb. 9:27-28). These options were presented by Moses to the Israelites (DT 30:19), and Jesus referred to this fundamental choice in terms of a fish or egg versus a snake or scorpion (Luke 11:11-13).

Evil people grieve God and punish/torture themselves by experiencing delayed karma (Rom. 2:5-11), just as those who experience appropriate justice during this earthly existence also punish themselves or reap what they have sown and send themselves to jail. This view makes souls responsible for breaking the rules rather than blaming evil on the judges (or Judge) who enforce the rules.

The purpose of earthly punishment is to promote repentance, but the reason for retribution in hell is to attain justice. It is difficult to imagine, but somehow even someone as evil as Hitler will receive perfect justice, perhaps experiencing the agony of the millions of deaths he caused in accordance with the principal of “eye for eye” (MT 5:38), after which their souls are destroyed forever (per John 17:12, Rom. 9:22, Gal. 6:8, Phil. 3:19, 2Thes. 1:9, 2Pet. 3:7 & Rev. 20:13-14).

We should conform our views to this righteous reality of God, not what our sinful hatred projects onto Him using proof-texts.

Eternal hell for the infinitely evil.

 

[Reddogs]

So, sort of. a gloomy subject, but I think it's worth discussing, since it's possible that it may be misunderstood. Is hell a place where the unbelievers burn every day for eternity, or something that is quick and remains until eternity?

Personally, I think Hell isn't eternal punishment every day for the wicked, but is more of like a burnt log, where the log turns to ash after it burns.
So maybe we can all share our thoughts, without getting bent out of shape?!?!

Discuss

Malachi 4:1-3
The Great Day of God
4 “For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.

3 You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,”
Says the Lord of hosts.

Jude 1

7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the [d]vengeance of eternal fire.

2nd Peter 2:6

6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

Matthew 25
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

So the key question here is Sodom still burning.....Of course not. Need to read and understand..

 

[Suze]

So, sort of. a gloomy subject, but I think it's worth discussing, since it's possible that it may be misunderstood. Is hell a place where the unbelievers burn every day for eternity, or something that is quick and remains until eternity?

Personally, I think Hell isn't eternal punishment every day for the wicked, but is more of like a burnt log, where the log turns to ash after it burns.
So maybe we can all share our thoughts, without getting bent out of shape?!?!

Discuss

Malachi 4:1-3
The Great Day of God
4 “For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.

3 You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,”
Says the Lord of hosts.

Jude 1

7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the [d]vengeance of eternal fire.

2nd Peter 2:6

6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

Matthew 25
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

So.....if the wages of sin is death , how can an unrepentant sinner b alive for eternity in a place called hell ? The wages of sin is death . The gift of God is eternal life through Christ our Sinless Redeemer . 1st Timothy Ch 6 verse 14-16 .

 

[GWH]

So.....if the wages of sin is death , how can an unrepentant sinner b alive for eternity in a place called hell ? The wages of sin is death . The gift of God is eternal life through Christ our Sinless Redeemer . 1st Timothy Ch 6 verse 14-16 .

Because everyone dies physically, the wages for unrepentant sinners must be spiritual death or reaping the just consequences in hell, after which their souls are destroyed.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Death is the judgement , ' the soul that sinneth shall die ' . That's all of us , our punishment for sin is death . How can a person , a non Christian , die because they sinned yet , still b alive for eternity in a place of punishment ? That's a massive contradiction don't u think ? Is God lying when He says the soul that sinneth shall die ? I don't think so do u ? God doesn't tell lies .

Good question

Death defined:
"The body without the spirit is dead."
James 2:26

Remember Jesus when He said, "It is finished" and "gave up the ghost/spirit"?
He then went to Hell and preached to the spirits in prison.
On the third day, His spirit re-entered His physical body and He left the tomb.

He was not annihilated, He was dead.

He spoke much earlier of the rich man and a man he knew named Lazarus who was comforted with Abraham.
The rich man was suffering and was supernaturally able to get the ability to ask Abraham to send Lazarus to dip his finger into water to cool his tongue.
The rich man was not alive. He was dead. That means his dead spirit left his dead body and went to Hell. He was conscious, yet very aware of his horrible existence.

Does this make more sense?

 

[Reddogs]

So.....if the wages of sin is death , how can an unrepentant sinner b alive for eternity in a place called hell ? The wages of sin is death . The gift of God is eternal life through Christ our Sinless Redeemer . 1st Timothy Ch 6 verse 14-16 .

The punishment of sin is death, and the Second Death is a complete separation from God which Christ suffered. But He was sinless so the Father accepted His death at the cross for our sins, and He was quickened or made alive and resurrected.

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: