The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[Cameron143]

Their laws, not God's. Why Jesus condemned them. Mat15:1-14 He never condemned one person for keeping His commandments. He asked us to keep them, if we love Him. Why this is even a debate shows how far we have gone away from doing the will of God Psa 40:8 Mat7:21-23

So questioning your understanding is evidence that an individual has gone away from doing the will of God?

No one has said Jesus condemned anyone for keeping the law. Do you have a closet full of strawmen? The Pharisees knew the law far better than you. And they spoke the law correctly. Their problem was they didn't understand it and ended up perverting it. That's why Jesus told people to do as they say but not as they do. He didn't say, don't do as they say. It was their practice of the law that Jesus condemned.

 

[Inquisitor]

You took what I said out of context and misquoted me. I never said 'committing adultery no longer a sin" it was a question to someone else about their beliefs, not mine.

Why would you do that? Sadly I see a pattern here of doing this exact thing with Scriptures as well.

I do find it odd in one breath you quote Paul saying Christ is the end of the law but in the next you say we should not be committing adultery, which is a law of God. Obviously some misunderstandings.

Please in tthe future quote my entire post because

You ignore the context that the scripture is written under.

When Jesus spoke to the Jews the law was important.

Jesus was only sent to the Jews.

You completely misunderstand what Jesus said to the Jews.

Paul was the minister to the Gentiles and the Gentiles were forbidden from legalism.

The Gentiles were forbidden from receiving circumcision which legally voids the entire law.

You do not understand the N.T.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

So questioning your understanding is evidence that an individual has gone away from doing the will of God?

No one has said Jesus condemned anyone for keeping the law. Do you have a closet full of strawmen? The Pharisees knew the law far better than you. And they spoke the law correctly. Their problem was they didn't understand it and ended up perverting it. That's why Jesus told people to do as they say but not as they do. He didn't say, don't do as they say. It was their practice of the law that Jesus condemned.

The Pharisees did not speak the law correctly, why He called them hypocrites. Are you sure you are reading the same Scriptures?

It was their practice of their man-made laws that Jesus condemned, never obedience to what He said.

This is Jesus speaking

Mat 15:1 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, 2 “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”
3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”—6 then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”
12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”
13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”


Jesus could not condemn this practice more. Jesus never condemned one person for keeping the commandments of God. So condemning others for wanting to do so, is what Jesus warned about. He taught for us to teach each other the commandments and warned about teaching others to break them Mat5:19

When one uses their words as if its the same as the word of God, I know its not something that can reasoned with so I will leave it as agree to disagree. God will sort this all out in His time.

 

[Cameron143]

Correction Cameron.

They say believe in Jesus and strictly obey the sabbath.

The obedience is to the sabbath; the great controversy.

It's not just the Sabbath. They would bind us all under the old covenant.

 

[Inquisitor]

So questioning your understanding is evidence that an individual has gone away from doing the will of God?

No one has said Jesus condemned anyone for keeping the law. Do you have a closet full of strawmen? The Pharisees knew the law far better than you. And they spoke the law correctly. Their problem was they didn't understand it and ended up perverting it. That's why Jesus told people to do as they say but not as they do. He didn't say, don't do as they say. It was their practice of the law that Jesus condemned.

The Pharisees knew the law because they recited the law from childhood.

Paul was a Pharisee and knew the law inside out.

Philippians 3:2-6
Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; for we are
the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence
in the flesh, although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put
confidence in the flesh, I far more: circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin,
a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness
which is in the Law, found blameless.

Does anyone see that obedience to the law is a work of the flesh?

If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh...as to the Law, a Pharisee

 

[Cameron143]

The Pharisees did not speak the law correctly, why He called them hypocrites. Are you sure you are reading the same Scriptures?

It was their practice of their man-made laws that Jesus condemned, never obedience to what He said.

This is Jesus speaking

Mat 15:1 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, 2 “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”
3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”—6 then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”
12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”
13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”


Jesus could not condemn this practice more. Jesus never condemned one person for keeping the commandments of God. So condemning others for wanting to do so, is what Jesus warned about. He taught for us to teach each other the commandments and warned about teaching others to break them Mat5:19

When one uses their words as if its the same as the word of God, I know its not something that can reasoned with so I will leave it as agree to disagree. God will sort this all out in His time.

Jesus showed them that their practice of the law was wrong; He didn't say their speaking the law was in error. If He thought they spoke the law incorrectly, why did He tell the people to do as they say?

 

[Inquisitor]

You took what I said out of context and misquoted me. I never said 'committing adultery no longer a sin" it was a question to someone else about their beliefs, not mine.

Why would you do that? Sadly I see a pattern here of doing this exact thing with Scriptures as well.

I do find it odd in one breath you quote Paul saying Christ is the end of the law but in the next you say we should not be committing adultery, which is a law of God. Obviously some misunderstandings.

Please in tthe future quote my entire post because

No misunderstanding at all.

The commandment "do not commit adultery" was given to Israel only.

The rule to not commit sexual immorality was given to the Gentiles (Acts 15:20).

You do not understand the N.T.

 

[vassal]

Because all you speak of are Christ's words, and not Christ. Christ's is great. His words evidence this. You have become a modern day Pharisee and don't even recognize it. I care to know nothing amongst you save Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Your version of the the verse is: I care to know nothing amongst you save Jesus Christ and how obedient you are to Him.

Hopefully you will see the difference.

ridiculous, please stop waisting my time, and read your bible!

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Sadly so many do not understand the difference between the law of Moses- which included circumcision with the law of God, the Ten Commandments. As if only worshipping God our Creator is a work of flesh. Its a grave misunderstanding of the Word of God. Not everyone wishes to understand and be set free. John3:19-21. Sadly it will be sorted out when Christ returns. We will have to accept our decisions Rev22:11

 

[Cameron143]

ridiculous, please stop waisting my time, and read your bible!

You can do better. But you obviously don't understand the difference between exalting the actions of men and exalting the activity of God in men.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

No misunderstanding at all.

The commandment "do not commit adultery" was given to Israel only.

The rule to not commit sexual immorality was given to the Gentiles (Acts 15:20).

You do not understand the N.T.

Not according to NT Scripture- the teaching that Gentiles can disobey God but Jews can't is sadly a teaching that will lead us on the wrong path Rev 11:18-19 Mat 5:19-30 Mat 7:21-23 Rev22:14-15

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 1For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Rom 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

The idea that God has two standard of righteousness, is not Biblical.

 

[Inquisitor]

It's not just the Sabbath. They would bind us all under the old covenant.

The sabbath is a big one and most belong to the SDA.

Yet, they do proclaim the ten words; the Mosaic law given to Israel.

Yes, the old covenant is still in operation for these legalists.

They cannot comprehend the gravity of Acts 15.

The one place where the apostles should have simply said the ten words.

Is the very place where they forbid circumcision and the law for the Gentiles.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Acts 15 is not an example of the Sabbath belonging to SDA's or being done away with.

Acts 15:21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath

 

[vassal]

You can do better. But you obviously don't understand the difference between exalting the actions of men and exalting the activity of God in men.

Cameron, it really is simpler than it has been made to appear. Jesus left us four books — Matthew, Mark, Luke and John — containing His own words, His own instructions, His own explanations, given directly to both Jews and Gentiles alike. His message is consistent, clear and complete. You do not need to look further than what He Himself said.

He told us how to live:

If ye love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

He told us what matters most:

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Matthew 22:37-39)

He told us what leads to life:

If thou wouldest enter into life keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:17)

And He warned us clearly about those who would lead us away from His words:

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments and shall teach men so he shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:19)

Everything you need is already there in His own words. Go directly to Jesus Cameron. Read what He said. Do what He asked. It really is that simple — and that beautiful.

 

[FlyingDove]

God is not lawless
The laws protect us from sin. Sin = the transgression of the law

Fundamentally, God's law is just, BUT, it cannot justify anyone. God's law is flawlessly holy, BUT, can't make anyone holy. His law is righteous, but, cannot make anyone righteous.

If the law cannot make us holy, righteous or justified & instead condemns the sinner without mercy to death. And was to be preached UNTIL Christ's arrival (Gal 3:19).

Then why are so many people determined to place New Testament believers back under its yoke of condemnation?

Rom 4:15 (A) the law worketh wrath

Paul calls the law, written and engraved on stones, the ministration of death (v.7) and the ministration of condemnation (v.9).)

2 Cor 3:
5 (C) our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth,

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones,
(NOTE: The letter. in Vs.6 is the Mosaic Law written on stone tablets. The law exposes sin && condemns the sinner to death (Rom 6:23a)

The Law And Its Purpose

The law begins with the Ten Commandments, but the entire Mosaic Law consists of 613 commandments.

The Law is a covenant, a legal agreement. Israel was required to obey it fully to receive its benefits (Deut 28:3–14) & would suffer its penalties if they failed (Deut 28:16–68)


(NOTE: In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus intensifies the Law by applying it to the thoughts and intents of the heart.)

Paul explains the real purpose of the Law:

Gal 3:
19 It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made
(NOTE: ""“Until"" is time‑limited. The law remained in effect UNTIL Christ came. After that, the law ceases as a means of obtaining righteousness (Rom 10:4).

23 Before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed
(NOTE: Before the arrival of Christ and the gospel, the law functioned as the governing system.)

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith
(NOTE: The law's job was to expose & condemn sin. We cannot be justified by faith until we first understand we are sinners against God's sovereign rule. Paul says in Rom 7:7 that he would not have known sin except through the law.)

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster
(NOTE: Rom 3:19–20 confirms the law produces the knowledge of sin & holds the world accountable to God.)

Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(NOTE: Anyone claiming the law is still in effect as a covenant of righteousness is claiming Jesus failed to fulfill His mission)

Conclusion:
The Law exposes sin & condemns the sinner without mercy to death. It was added because of transgressions. It produces the consciousness of sin. It holds the world accountable to God & was temporary - until Christ came.

The good news
Jesus sin atoning death fulfilled the laws demands. Anyone that calls on Jesus for sin forgiveness & places their faith in His sin atoning death & resurrection receivers a full pardon, is indwelt with His salvation sealing eternal life giving Holy Spirit. Amen

 

[Inquisitor]

Not according to NT Scripture- the teaching that Gentiles can disobey God but Jews can't is sadly a teaching that will lead us on the wrong path Rev 11:18-19 Mat 5:19-30 Mat 7:21-23 Rev22:14-15

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 1For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Rom 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

The idea that God has two standard of righteousness, is not Biblical.

Your quoting from two letters addressed to the Jews.

James 1:1
James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad.

Was the letter from James addressed to Jews under the law or to Gentiles?

The text above states the twelve tribes, that is, Jews.

As for Romans which is very difficult to understand for nearly everyone.

Read Romans 9 to Romans 12 and you will realize whom Paul is talking about.

You are constantly quoting from the N.T and ignoring the context.

 

[Cameron143]

The sabbath is a big one and most belong to the SDA.

Yet, they do proclaim the ten words; the Mosaic law given to Israel.

Yes, the old covenant is still in operation for these legalists.

They cannot comprehend the gravity of Acts 15.

The one place where the apostles should have simply said the ten words.

Is the very place where they forbid circumcision and the law for the Gentiles.

I agree, but it's not the only burden they employ to bind men's conscience.

 

[Cameron143]

Cameron, it really is simpler than it has been made to appear. Jesus left us four books — Matthew, Mark, Luke and John — containing His own words, His own instructions, His own explanations, given directly to both Jews and Gentiles alike. His message is consistent, clear and complete. You do not need to look further than what He Himself said.

He told us how to live:

If ye love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

He told us what matters most:

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Matthew 22:37-39)

He told us what leads to life:

If thou wouldest enter into life keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:17)

And He warned us clearly about those who would lead us away from His words:

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments and shall teach men so he shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:19)

Everything you need is already there in His own words. Go directly to Jesus Cameron. Read what He said. Do what He asked. It really is that simple — and that beautiful.

You started off wrong. Jesus came to lost sheep of the house of Israel. His audience wasn't Gentiles, no matter how diligently you attempt to make it so. These Israelites were still under the old covenant. They were obligated to the whole law. The Gentiles were never placed under the law. To ignore this is to misunderstand the difference between the 2 covenants.

 

[Inquisitor]

Cameron, it really is simpler than it has been made to appear. Jesus left us four books — Matthew, Mark, Luke and John — containing His own words, His own instructions, His own explanations, given directly to both Jews and Gentiles alike. His message is consistent, clear and complete. You do not need to look further than what He Himself said.

He told us how to live:

If ye love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

He told us what matters most:

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Matthew 22:37-39)

He told us what leads to life:

If thou wouldest enter into life keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:17)

And He warned us clearly about those who would lead us away from His words:

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments and shall teach men so he shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:19)

Everything you need is already there in His own words. Go directly to Jesus Cameron. Read what He said. Do what He asked. It really is that simple — and that beautiful.

We are not told to love others as we love ourselves that is the ceremonial law.

John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

This is the greatest commandment and a new commandment that fulfilled and surpassed the law.

Typical legalist you did not quote the new commandment given to the apostles, under the new covenant.

You quoted from the lesser light the law.

You have made a critical mistake vassal.

 

[vassal]

Fundamentally, God's law is just, BUT, it cannot justify anyone. God's law is flawlessly holy, BUT, can't make anyone holy. His law is righteous, but, cannot make anyone righteous.

If the law cannot make us holy, righteous or justified & instead condemns the sinner without mercy to death. And was to be preached UNTIL Christ's arrival (Gal 3:19).

Then why are so many people determined to place New Testament believers back under its yoke of condemnation?

Rom 4:15 (A) the law worketh wrath

Paul calls the law, written and engraved on stones, the ministration of death (v.7) and the ministration of condemnation (v.9).)

2 Cor 3:
5 (C) our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth,

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones,
(NOTE: The letter. in Vs.6 is the Mosaic Law written on stone tablets. The law exposes sin && condemns the sinner to death (Rom 6:23a)

The Law And Its Purpose

The law begins with the Ten Commandments, but the entire Mosaic Law consists of 613 commandments.

The Law is a covenant, a legal agreement. Israel was required to obey it fully to receive its benefits (Deut 28:3–14) & would suffer its penalties if they failed (Deut 28:16–68)


(NOTE: In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus intensifies the Law by applying it to the thoughts and intents of the heart.)

Paul explains the real purpose of the Law:

Gal 3:
19 It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made
(NOTE: ""“Until"" is time‑limited. The law remained in effect UNTIL Christ came. After that, the law ceases as a means of obtaining righteousness (Rom 10:4).

23 Before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed
(NOTE: Before the arrival of Christ and the gospel, the law functioned as the governing system.)

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith
(NOTE: The law's job was to expose & condemn sin. We cannot be justified by faith until we first understand we are sinners against God's sovereign rule. Paul says in Rom 7:7 that he would not have known sin except through the law.)

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster
(NOTE: Rom 3:19–20 confirms the law produces the knowledge of sin & holds the world accountable to God.)

Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(NOTE: Anyone claiming the law is still in effect as a covenant of righteousness is claiming Jesus failed to fulfill His mission)

Conclusion:
The Law exposes sin & condemns the sinner without mercy to death. It was added because of transgressions. It produces the consciousness of sin. It holds the world accountable to God & was temporary - until Christ came.

The good news
Jesus sin atoning death fulfilled the laws demands. Anyone that calls on Jesus for sin forgiveness & places their faith in His sin atoning death & resurrection receivers a full pardon, is indwelt with His salvation sealing eternal life giving Holy Spirit. Amen

it was not addressed to me but I will answer nonetheless, I want to go directly to Jesus Himself on this because His words settle the question more clearly than anything else.

You included this verse in your own post:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets. I am not come to destroy but to fulfil. (Matthew 5:17)

But then the conclusion drawn contradicts what Jesus said in the very next breath:

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments and shall teach men so he shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:19)

That is Jesus speaking — directly to His followers — warning against teaching others that the commandments no longer matter. That warning did not come with an expiry date.

And when a man came sincerely asking about eternal life Jesus did not say the law is finished and behind us. He said:

If thou wouldest enter into life keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:17)

Jesus then went deeper into the commandments in the Sermon on the Mount — not to abolish them but to reveal their true and fuller meaning. Do not just avoid murder — deal with anger in your heart. Do not just avoid adultery — deal with lust in your heart. That is not abolishing the law. That is Christ taking it deeper into the soul than any external rule ever reached.

And He closed the question of love and obedience with perfect simplicity:

If ye love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

Nobody here is saying the commandments save us. Salvation belongs to Christ alone — His life, His death, His resurrection. That is not the debate. The question is how a believer who truly loves Christ lives — and Jesus answered that question Himself clearly and repeatedly.

The commandments are not a yoke of condemnation for the believer. They are the natural expression of a heart that loves God. Jesus said so Himself.