The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[JimiSurvivor]

The issue the apostles faced most often when dealing with new converts was whether they were obliged, as partakers of the New Covenant to follow ALL the laws and practices passed down from Abraham and Moses . One of the initial primary issues they faced was whether or not a person who wanted to be saved had to be CIRCUMCISED. The Abrahamic Covenant clearly required all male descendants of Abraham to be circumcised before they could be a part of the covenant of promise.

The requirement for circumcision is first introduced in Genesis 17:10-14, where God commands Abraham: "THIS IS MY COVENANT, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you:
Every male among you must be circumcised. You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between Me and you" (Genesis 17:10-11).
This commandment was not only for Abraham's direct descendants but also extended to any male who wished to join the community of Israel, including servants and foreigners.

The Mosaic Law further codified the requirement for circumcision among those who wished to partake in the religious life of Israel. In Exodus 12:48, concerning the Passover, it is stated: "If a foreigner residing with you wants to celebrate the LORD’s Passover, all the males in his household must be circumcised; then he may take part, like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised male may eat of it" (Exodus 12:48).

Of course, being a stickler about this would no doubt have required your group to implement a "foreskin inspection" - of every new prospective male candidate for membership member. Had the Apostles believed the way you do this would likely have made coming to Christ a harder task than merely "saying the sinner's prayer, professing a certain set of doctrines and being baptized."

1. Circumcision is a key ritual for male converts to Judaism.
2. Circumcision symbolized the covenant between God and the Jewish people.
3. The procedure was typically performed on the eighth day after birth, but it could also be done for adult converts.
4. Circumcision was often accompanied by a formal conversion process, including immersion in a mikvah (ritual bath).
5. The act signifies commitment to Jewish law and community.

Despite the fact that there was more than a solid case in scripture for circumcising all new (male) converts to the faith, after the Apostles and other leaders met to discussed it, they decided NOT to require circumcision of Gentile converts even though PRIOR to that both circumcision and immersion had been a requirements. If they had believed as you do - that all God's commands are eternal and can never be either abolished or altered in any way, they would not have presumed to make such a change.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

The issue the apostles faced most often when dealing with new converts was whether they were obliged, as partakers of the New Covenant to follow ALL the laws and practices passed down from Abraham and Moses . One of the initial primary issues they faced was whether or not a person who wanted to be saved had to be CIRCUMCISED. The Abrahamic Covenant clearly required all male descendants of Abraham to be circumcised before they could be a part of the covenant of promise.

The requirement for circumcision is first introduced in Genesis 17:10-14, where God commands Abraham: "THIS IS MY COVENANT, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you:
Every male among you must be circumcised. You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between Me and you" (Genesis 17:10-11).
This commandment was not only for Abraham's direct descendants but also extended to any male who wished to join the community of Israel, including servants and foreigners.

The Mosaic Law further codified the requirement for circumcision among those who wished to partake in the religious life of Israel. In Exodus 12:48, concerning the Passover, it is stated: "If a foreigner residing with you wants to celebrate the LORD’s Passover, all the males in his household must be circumcised; then he may take part, like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised male may eat of it" (Exodus 12:48).

Of course, being a stickler about this would no doubt have required your group to implement a "foreskin inspection" - of every new prospective male candidate for membership member. Had the Apostles believed the way you do this would likely have made coming to Christ a harder task than merely "saying the sinner's prayer, professing a certain set of doctrines and being baptized."

1. Circumcision is a key ritual for male converts to Judaism.
2. Circumcision symbolized the covenant between God and the Jewish people.
3. The procedure was typically performed on the eighth day after birth, but it could also be done for adult converts.
4. Circumcision was often accompanied by a formal conversion process, including immersion in a mikvah (ritual bath).
5. The act signifies commitment to Jewish law and community.

Despite the fact that there was more than a solid case in scripture for circumcising all new (male) converts to the faith, after the Apostles and other leaders met to discussed it, they decided NOT to require circumcision of Gentile converts even though PRIOR to that both circumcision and immersion had been a requirements. If they had believed as you do - that all God's commands are eternal and can never be either abolished or altered in any way, they would not have presumed to make such a change.

Not one person had to be circumcised to keep the Ten Commandments. No circumcision required to only worship God, or not vain His holy name, or not bow to idols or to keep holy His Sabbath day. No circumcision needed to not steal from their neighbor, or lie, or murder or break these least of these commandments. These are the commandments that define sin 1John3:4 James2:11 Mat5:19-30 Rom7:7, why they were under the mercy seat of God and the blood of animals in the OT covered the sins from this law on the day of atonement.

But the blood of animals could never take away sin therefore Jesus had to come to be our Sacrificial Lamb.

In the OT, in order to get the cure for sin one needed to be circumcised. Gentiles could gain access to the sacrificial system for forgiveness of sins through circumcision.

Jesus took that wall of separation of circumcision's at the Cross and the ceremonial system of forgiveness of sins though animal sacrifices as these all pointed to Jesus and what He would do at the Cross.



Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands—12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

What Paul spent most of his time was correcting this law- not the law of God. The Jews still wanted to enforce circumcision as a means of salvation and everything under that sacrificial system. This is the law that Paul was correcting that sadly people get gravely mixed up with the law of God.

Christ removed that wall of separation though circumcision by His great Sacrifice. We no longer need a Levitical priest or an animal sacrifice when we sin, instead of an animal sacrifice, we can go directly to Jesus when we sin and ask for forgiveness because everything that was happening in the OT sacrificial system was teaching what Jesus does as our High Priest in His heavenly temple. Heb8:1-5 Heb9:23-27

Sin is still the same- God's righteousness will never change. Its still a sin to worship other gods, or vain His name or break His holy Sabbath, steal, lie etc. Why the Ten Commandments, the Testimony of God, not written by man but God Himself is still under His mercy seat in heaven Rev15:5 Rev11:19 why we seem them at the last Trumpet because it is His standard of Judgement John12:48 James2:11-12 Rev11:18-19 and final atonement has not happened. God is not partial with His laws- He never loved those who came before us more than He loves us. He wants everyone to be saved but He will not lower His standard of right doing for us, He will lift us up to Him and give us the power to do so, but we have to cooperate with Him. John14:15-18 sadly not everyone wants to submit to His will John3:19-21 and that is the issue- same issue in the OT- people want His blessings on their terms and not His.

 

[Soyeong]

The issue the apostles faced most often when dealing with new converts was whether they were obliged, as partakers of the New Covenant to follow ALL the laws and practices passed down from Abraham and Moses .One of the initial primary issues they faced was whether or not a person who wanted to be saved had to be CIRCUMCISED. The Abrahamic Covenant clearly required all male descendants of Abraham to be circumcised before they could be a part of the covenant of promise.

In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our mind and writing it on our hearts, so the Apostles did not face the issue of whether or not that verse is true and they did not face the issue of whether or not a person who wanted to become saved had to be circumcised, but rather they faced the issue of whether Gentiles are required to become circumcised in order to become saved.

The requirement for circumcision is first introduced in Genesis 17:10-14, where God commands Abraham: "THIS IS MY COVENANT, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you:
Every male among you must be circumcised. You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between Me and you" (Genesis 17:10-11).
This commandment was not only for Abraham's direct descendants but also extended to any male who wished to join the community of Israel, including servants and foreigners.

The Mosaic Law further codified the requirement for circumcision among those who wished to partake in the religious life of Israel. In Exodus 12:48, concerning the Passover, it is stated: "If a foreigner residing with you wants to celebrate the LORD’s Passover, all the males in his household must be circumcised; then he may take part, like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised male may eat of it" (Exodus 12:48).

Of course, being a stickler about this would no doubt have required your group to implement a "foreskin inspection" - of every new prospective male candidate for membership member. Had the Apostles believed the way you do this would likely have made coming to Christ a harder task than merely "saying the sinner's prayer, professing a certain set of doctrines and being baptized."

1. Circumcision is a key ritual for male converts to Judaism.
2. Circumcision symbolized the covenant between God and the Jewish people.
3. The procedure was typically performed on the eighth day after birth, but it could also be done for adult converts.
4. Circumcision was often accompanied by a formal conversion process, including immersion in a mikvah (ritual bath).
5. The act signifies commitment to Jewish law and community.

Despite the fact that there was more than a solid case in scripture for circumcising all new (male) converts to the faith, after the Apostles and other leaders met to discussed it, they decided NOT to require circumcision of Gentile converts even though PRIOR to that both circumcision and immersion had been a requirements. If they had believed as you do - that all God's commands are eternal and can never be either abolished or altered in any way, they would not have presumed to make such a change.

If Paul had been speaking against circumcision for any reason, then Galatians 5:2 would mean that he caused Christ to be of no value to Timothy when he has him circumcised and Christ is of no value to roughly 70% of them men in the US. In Acts 15:1, men from Judea were wanting to require Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved, however, that was never the reason why God commanded circumcision, so the Jerusalem Council upheld the Torah by correctly ruling against requiring circumcision for an incorrect reason. In Exodus 12:48, Gentiles who want to eat of the Passover lamb are required to become circumcised, so the Jerusalem Council should not be interpreted as ruling against Gentiles correctly obeying what God has commanded as if they had the authority to countermand God.

 

[TruthDefender]

According to the Scriptures, the promises are better- not the law itself. Heb8:6 The laws went from tablets of stone to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10

I would spend my time trying to understand the better promises instead of going after something the God of everything said He would not alter Psa89:34 not a jot or tittle Mat5:18-19 because its the standard of judgement regardless if we accept them or not James 2:11-12 Mat5:19-30 Rev11:18-19 The Holy Spirit never made a mistake, we do by our harden heart, not subjecting ourselves to the law of God Rom8:7-8

-"But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."
Hebrews 8:6-10 NKJV

-"In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away."
Hebrews 8:13 NKJV

 

[SabbathBlessing]

-"But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."
Hebrews 8:6-10 NKJV

-"In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away."
Hebrews 8:13 NKJV

A covenant is an agreement, not a set of laws.

God would have never changed the covenant or agreement because there was nothing wrong with the covenant, except the people did not continue in the agreement which made the agreement void

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

So because the people did not continue in the agreement it voided it out. God in His great mercy instead of not being in a saving covenant relationship with His people, He made a new covenant based on all better laws. Wait NO Scripture says this, so why do so many people try to make the Scripture says whats not there?

What is the New Covenant established on?

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

So not new laws, but better promises. Because you can't make something written by the Holy Spirit Exo31:18 more perfect Psa19:7 or more holy Rom7:12

The New Covenant still has God's laws, but now written on a better surface

Heb8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Same thing He said in the days of Jeremiah so it was a law known in Jemimah and Jeremiah repeats all Ten of the Commandments of God.

the same laws Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

But they went from tablets of stone to tablets of the heart

2Cor3:3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.

Exactly what Christ came to do with His law- Magnify it in our hearts and minds Isa 42:21 Mat5:19-30 why its still a sin to break the least of these commandments and Jesus said its the path that leads to judgement.

So what is our real motive for arguing against the law of God? Why are we arguing against only worshipping God, only using His name in a holy manner, not bowing to idols, not wanting to spend sacred time with Him on the day He sanctified and made holy? Why are we arguing against not stealing from our neighbor our lying to them? What is the motive behind rebelling and arguing against keeping the law of God? Instead of keeping it because we trust and have faith in Him and love Him above anything or anyone else Exo20:6 John14:15

 

[TruthDefender]

A covenant is an agreement, not a set of laws.

God would have never changed the covenant or agreement because there was nothing wrong with the covenant, except the people did not continue in the agreement which made the agreement void

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

So because the people did not continue in the agreement it voided it out. God in His great mercy instead of not being in a saving covenant relationship with His people, He made a new covenant based on all better laws. Wait NO Scripture says this, so why do so many people try to make the Scripture says whats not there?

What is the New Covenant established on?

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

So not new laws, but better promises. Because you can't make something written by the Holy Spirit Exo31:18 more perfect Psa19:7 or more holy Rom7:12

The New Covenant still has God's laws, but now written on a better surface

Heb8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Same thing He said in the days of Jeremiah so it was a law known in Jemimah and Jeremiah repeats all Ten of the Commandments of God.

the same laws Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

But they went from tablets of stone to tablets of the heart

2Cor3:3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.

Exactly what Christ came to do with His law- Magnify it in our hearts and minds Isa 42:21 Mat5:19-30 why its still a sin to break the least of these commandments and Jesus said its the path that leads to judgement.

So what is our real motive for arguing against the law of God? Why are we arguing against only worshipping God, only using His name in a holy manner, not bowing to idols, not wanting to spend sacred time with Him on the day He sanctified and made holy? Why are we arguing against not stealing from our neighbor our lying to them? What is the motive behind rebelling and arguing against keeping the law of God? Instead of keeping it because we trust and have faith in Him and love Him above anything or anyone else Exo20:6 John14:15

Let God speak:

-"knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified."
Galatians 2:16 NKJV

-"Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."
Galatians 5:1, 4 NKJV

-"For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law."
Hebrews 7:12 NKJV

-"For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God."
Hebrews 7:18-19 NKJV

-"by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant."
Hebrews 7:22 NKJV

 

[TruthDefender]

Paul was quoting directly from OT...
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The law that Jer 31 is referring to must be the 10 commandments.

It isn't the referring to future laws or the laws that would be abolished at the cross.. God's moral laws that are perfect.
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Tables of stone = 10 commandments
Fleshly tables of the heart = 10 commandments on the heart

The 10 commandments are central to the New Covenant.

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

-"Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."
Galatians 5:1, 4 NKJV

-"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.""
Galatians 5:14 NKJV

-"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."
Galatians 5:18 NKJV

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Let God speak:

You quoted Paul and Paul is misunderstood, but I agree let Him speak.

This is what God said:

Psa 89:34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So Paul a servant of God will never teach against this. In order for the law of God to fail- heaven and earth have to pass, they are still here so therefore not a jot or tittle can pass from the law of God.

So now that we have established what God has said lets compare this to Paul.

-"knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified."
Galatians 2:16 NKJV

What law is Paul referring to here- he states so in this very chapter- can you tell me what it is?

-"Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."
Galatians 5:1, 4 NKJV

What law is Paul speaking of here- can you show me by the Scriptures.

-"For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law."
Hebrews 7:12 NKJV

What did the priesthood have to be changed- can you tell me why through the Scripture which literslly tells why in the verses that you did not quote.

-"For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God."
Hebrews 7:18-19 NKJV

The same law being spoke of can you tell me why through the Scriptures?

-"by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant."
Hebrews 7:22 NKJV

Hebrews 7 is about one law and you edited out the law its referring to and why its better.

Did you know not one of these verses says not to obey the Ten Commandments- Do you really like only worshipping God our Creator is the law that is a yoke of bondage and not the law of sin and death? We can make any case we want by plucking a verse here and there but if we leave out the context, we are leaving God's Truth and instead making our own doctrines and not God's.

 

[TruthDefender]

You quoted Paul and Paul is misunderstood, but I agree let Him speak.

This is what God said:

Psa 89:34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So Paul a servant of God will never teach against this. In order for the law of God to fail- heaven and earth have to pass, they are still here so therefore not a jot or tittle can pass from the law of God.

So now that we have established what God has said lets compare this to Paul.

What law is Paul referring to here- he states so in this very chapter- can you tell me what it is?

What law is Paul speaking of here- can you show me by the Scriptures.

What did the priesthood have to be changed- can you tell me why through the Scripture which literslly tells why in the verses that you did not quote.

The same law being spoke of can you tell me why through the Scriptures?

Hebrews 7 is about one law and you edited out the law its referring to and why its better.

Did you know not one of these verses says not to obey the Ten Commandments- Do you really like only worshipping God our Creator is the law that is a yoke of bondage and not the law of sin and death? We can make any case we want by plucking a verse here and there but if we leave out the context, we are leaving God's Truth and instead making our own doctrines and not God's.

I didn’t edit out anything!(?) These are direct, whole/ complete quotes (c & p’d).

Idk why you keep harping on the 10 commandments? They are written in the NC, save one.

The Old law that most of us are referring to is Levitical laws (613, give or take), as I had mentioned before. No laws have failed. We have the Law of liberty which is in Jesus, the Gospel.

Why are you disbelieving Saul Paul? ALL Scripture was written by God through man by the Holy Spirit. There is no contradictions!

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I didn’t edit out anything!(?) These are direct, whole/ complete quotes (c & p’d).

You left out the conext.

For example in Galatians 2, the law being spoken about is circumcision. Gal2:3

The law in Heb 7 being spoken of is the priesthood and it says why it had to be changed in the very next verse that wasn't quoted.

We can literally make the Bible say anything we want by selecting a verse here or there and stripping it from its context. I asked you questions which law is being spoken of but you didn't answer.

Idk why you keep harping on the 10 commandments? They are written in the NC, save one.

In the OT someone would die for showing the law of God with disrespect. Something written by God Himself. Its sad what say about the law of God.

I am not sure what "save one" means.

The Old law that most of us are referring to is Levitical laws (613, give or take)

God only numbered one law- His Deut4:13 Exo34:28 not one, not 9 but Ten.

, as I had mentioned before. No laws have failed. We have the Law of liberty which is in Jesus, the Gospel.

Or again, we can go by what the Bible says is the law of liberty and what is quoted is what "He said" God in the Ten Commandments Exo20:1-17 and its the law of liberty because those who keep them by faith are freed from the law of sin and death that holds us captive. Rom7:23

James 2:11For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

There is no Scripture that says the law of liberty is Jesus. He is what sets us from from the law of sin and death, that is the bondage not the law that starts with only worshipping God. I can't help but wonder if people understand what they are really saying.

Why are you disbelieving Saul Paul? ALL Scripture was written by God through man by the Holy Spirit. There is no contradictions!

I am not disbelieving Paul, just him being quoted out of context as were warned would happen 2Peter3:16

You never answered one question I asked, I would consider not just look for verses to quote but read the context of those verses and compare it to Scripture and especially to Jesus. No apostles would countermand Him, so any understanding that does, it going to be out of context. Jesus is the way. The apostles were servants of Him as we are called Isa 56:6

 

[Inquisitor]

Let us take these one at a time and go straight to Jesus Himself.

"Jesus was sent to Israel only."

Jesus did correct a Gentile woman initially with these words — but then He healed her daughter and honoured her faith above all He had seen in Israel. (Matthew 15:28). And His final command before ascending was unmistakably universal:

Go ye therefore and teach all nations. (Matthew 28:19)

All nations. Not Israel only.

"The commandments are not the Ten Commandments."

Jesus was asked directly which commandments. He quoted directly from the Ten:

Thou shalt do no murder, thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness, honour thy father and thy mother. (Matthew 19:18-19)

Those are the Ten. From the mouth of Jesus Himself.

"Gentiles are under grace and not the law."

Grace and the commandments are not opposites. Jesus never taught that. He said:

If ye love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

No exceptions for Gentiles anywhere in those words.

"You are under the curse of the law."

Jesus did not come to curse us. He said:

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:17)

The foundation remains simple and unchanged:

If thou wouldest enter into life keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:17)

I would assume that your contradicting what Jesus said.

Matthew 15:24
But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

 

[Inquisitor]

if i follow your logic, then all Jesus did and said is for Jews only and you cannot be saved......

You forget the mission Jesus gave to his 12 disciples to go to all nations and teach all he said and did. this is what scripture says about it . I have a lot more texts to prove this point.

Jesus words are for all - Jews and gentiles. the ten commandments are the the covenant, please read the opening post so we can discuss if you want.

Your first line was correct.

The Gentiles are grafted into Christ which is an unnatural process.

Jesus was only sent to Israel not to the Gentiles.

Much later God spoke to Peter about a Gentile called Cornelius.

The cultivated olive tree was Israel and the Gentiles were a wild olive tree.

The 11 apostles were assigned to the Jewish population but Paul was sent to the Gentiles.

Galatians 2:7-9
But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised,
just as Peter had been to the circumcised for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship
to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles, and recognizing the grace that
had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and
Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

Any other passages you struggle with just ask me and I will explain them to you.

 

[sparkplug]

If the law is irrelevant, then what do you need saving from?

 

[TruthDefender]

You left out the conext.

For example in Galatians 2, the law being spoken about is circumcision. Gal2:3

The law in Heb 7 being spoken of is the priesthood and it says why it had to be changed in the very next verse that wasn't quoted.

We can literally make the Bible say anything we want by selecting a verse here or there and stripping it from its context. I asked you questions which law is being spoken of but you didn't answer.

In the OT someone would die for showing the law of God with disrespect. Something written by God Himself. Its sad what say about the law of God.

I am not sure what "save one" means.

God only numbered one law- His Deut4:13 Exo34:28 not one, not 9 but Ten.

Or again, we can go by what the Bible says is the law of liberty and what is quoted is what "He said" God in the Ten Commandments Exo20:1-17 and its the law of liberty because those who keep them by faith are freed from the law of sin and death that holds us captive. Rom7:23

James 2:11For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

There is no Scripture that says the law of liberty is Jesus. He is what sets us from from the law of sin and death, that is the bondage not the law that starts with only worshipping God. I can't help but wonder if people understand what they are really saying.


I am not disbelieving Paul, just him being quoted out of context as were warned would happen 2Peter3:16

You never answered one question I asked, I would consider not just look for verses to quote but read the context of those verses and compare it to Scripture and especially to Jesus. No apostles would countermand Him, so any understanding that does, it going to be out of context. Jesus is the way. The apostles were servants of Him as we are called Isa 56:6

-The Scriptures speak for themselves.

-“The conext?”

-The same can be said about your reading!! Paul speaks plainly, I have no problem in understanding his verses in context.

Blessings!

 

[SabbathBlessing]

-The Scriptures speak for themselves.

-“The conext?”

-The same can be said about your reading!! Paul speaks plainly, I have no problem in understanding his verses in context.

Blessings!

How can they speak for themselves if you are not showing the entire context. There are many laws in Scriptures, the Scriptures tell us which law and circumcision is not the Ten Commandments, the priesthood, is not the Ten Commandments. Yes, the Scriptures speak for themselves when we provide the entire context. Taking verses out of its context that doesn’t show the law its referring to and trying to apply it to another law that is not stated, while we have free will and can do what we want, its not really wanting to understand the will of God.

According to the Bible Paul does not speak plainly hence

2Peter3:15and consider that the long suffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 ;as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Considering there is a salvation warning here, I would be very cautious of trying to make Paul countermand the teachings of Jesus Christ. That’s me, we have free will so I guess we will agree to disagree all will get sorted out soon enough.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

If the law is irrelevant, then what do you need saving from?

Yes! No law means no sin. No sin then no need for God’s grace. No grace means no need for a Savior. No need for a Savior then we are all lost. I see why the devil attacks God’s law so much, He wants Jesus to say this to us at His Second Coming

Mat7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Without law)

Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments John14:15 let’s keep our eyes on loving Jesus and not let the other voice come between us.

 

[Inquisitor]

Yes! No law means no sin. No sin then no need for God’s grace. No grace means no need for a Savior. No need for a Savior then we are all lost. I see why the devil attacks God’s law so much, He wants Jesus to say this to us at His Second Coming

Mat7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Without law)

Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments John14:15 let’s keep our eyes on loving Jesus and not let the other voice come between us.

Your knowledge of the N.T is deficient.

You sin whether your under the law or not under the law.

Romans 2:12
For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned
under the Law will be judged by the Law.

No law does not mean no sin rather, no law means no violation of the law.

 

[Inquisitor]

How can they speak for themselves if you are not showing the entire context. There are many laws in Scriptures, the Scriptures tell us which law and circumcision is not the Ten Commandments, the priesthood, is not the Ten Commandments. Yes, the Scriptures speak for themselves when we provide the entire context. Taking verses out of its context that doesn’t show the law its referring to and trying to apply it to another law that is not stated, while we have free will and can do what we want, its not really wanting to understand the will of God.

According to the Bible Paul does not speak plainly hence

2Peter3:15and consider that the long suffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 ;as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Considering there is a salvation warning here, I would be very cautious of trying to make Paul countermand the teachings of Jesus Christ. That’s me, we have free will so I guess we will agree to disagree all will get sorted out soon enough.

The two greatest commandments are not in the ten commandments as they are ceremonial law?

 

[Inquisitor]

If the law is irrelevant, then what do you need saving from?

Yourself.

 

[Inquisitor]

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

What was wrong with the first covenant?