Faith or Law?

[Watchman22]

We who are in Christ are no longer under the Condemnation of the LAW, the death penalty of the LAW.. Because our transgressions are atoned for.. But the Law is still good and true.. Unless you think it is good to commit adultery and steal and murder? Of course we still acknowledge and teach the Law. Because it reveals we are all Transgressors in NEED of the Atonement of The LORD Jesus..

Believing Jesus is to believe His Words.. All his words in Scripture.. Both OT and NT..

Believing IN Jesus is a combined believing and trusting in both the message of Jesus AND his Atoning blood..

We who are in Christ are no longer under the Condemnation of the LAW, the death penalty of the LAW.. Because our transgressions are atoned for.. But the Law is still good and true.. Unless you think it is good to commit adultery and steal and murder? Of course we still acknowledge and teach the Law. Because it reveals we are all Transgressors in NEED of the Atonement of The LORD Jesus..

Believing Jesus is to believe His Words.. All his words in Scripture.. Both OT and NT..

Believing IN Jesus is a combined believing and trusting in both the message of Jesus AND his Atoning blood

Hi Adstar,

Your post here has presented to me the perfect example of the damage the mistranslation of pisteuo has caused.
I'm not singling you out, most of the church world is in your camp.

You said,
Believing IN Jesus is a combined believing and trusting in both the message of Jesus AND his Atoning blood.

I want to give you an opportunity to change my mind, with this important question.
Explain: How do we "trust" in Jesus for salvation, to recieve His Spirit?

 

[Rob7]

@Psalm1 & @Dino246
Sorry Folks ! I've already spent WAY too much time (wasted, it seem) talking, "arguing" with the like of y'all...
About keeping the God's Commandments .. Being obedient to God... Believing and obeying Jesus, ... with you being on the unbelieving & disobedient side. I tried.. but obviously, got nowhere, so ...
2 Timothy 3:5
"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

My posting "@you" was rhetorical. Anyone "arguing" with you very long KNOWs you believe "that God's Law has been done away with" and I would bet a dollar to a nickle that, you believe Sunday worship ................... Don't You ?

My mentioning you by name, was to point the likes of you out to other folk getting into discussions with you, like "Toknow".. Letting them know which spirit they are dealing with..
Ya'll being good examples of "false prophets" Revelation 16:13, 19:20, 20:10

• Matthew 24:11: “And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.”
• 2 Peter 2:1: “But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you.”
• 1 John 4:1: “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God.”
• Deuteronomy 13:1–5: Commands Israel to reject prophets who lead people to worship other gods, even if they perform signs.

Twas a warning Enlightenment ! To anyone talking with you to, ...... Be Aware !
Good Day

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++​

 

[JayWalker]

Are you claiming to be without sin?

Are you claiming to be a sinner? Walking after the flesh in rebellion against the Lord?

That would be ill advised to say the least

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOES righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not

 

[TruthDefender]

There is no rule that we can only be under one covenant, but rather there are multiple covenants that someone can be are under, such as with the covenant that God made with Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and David. The Mosaic Law is truth (Psalm 119:142) and you call yourself TruthDefender, yet you are taking the position that we are no longer under truth.

Someone who disregarded everything that their tutor taught them after the purpose of a tutor has been fulfilled would would be missing the whole point of a tutor. The reason why God's Word brings us to God's Word made flesh is because he is the embodiment of it and because it was given to teach us how to know him, but the reason that it brings us to him is not so that we can then reject everything that he is and taught and go back to being doers of what it reveals to be wickedness.

In Matthew 27:37, they nailed a handwritten ordinance to Christ's cross that announced the charge that was against him, which fits perfectly with the concept of a handwritten ordinance that announced the charges that were against us being nailed to his cross instead and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with nailing any laws to the cross. The reason why Jesus went to the cross was not in order to free us to become doers of what the Law of God reveals to be but just the opposite. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to free us from the Law of Moses but in order to free us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what he accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of Moses (Acts 21:20) while the way to reject everything that he is would be by returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from.

-"And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

For a testament is in force after men are
dead, since it has no power at all while
the testator lives."
Hebrews 9:15-17 NKJV

 

[Psalm1]

@Psalm1 & @Dino246
Sorry Folks ! I've already spent WAY too much time (wasted, it seem) talking, "arguing" with the like of y'all...
About keeping the God's Commandments .. Being obedient to God... Believing and obeying Jesus, ... with you being on the unbelieving & disobedient side. I tried.. but obviously, got nowhere, so ...
2 Timothy 3:5
"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

My posting "@you" was rhetorical. Anyone "arguing" with you very long KNOWs you believe "that God's Law has been done away with" and I would bet a dollar to a nickle that, you believe Sunday worship ................... Don't You ?

My mentioning you by name, was to point the likes of you out to other folk getting into discussions with you, like "Toknow".. Letting them know which spirit they are dealing with..
Ya'll being good examples of "false prophets" Revelation 16:13, 19:20, 20:10

• Matthew 24:11: “And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.”
• 2 Peter 2:1: “But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you.”
• 1 John 4:1: “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God.”
• Deuteronomy 13:1–5: Commands Israel to reject prophets who lead people to worship other gods, even if they perform signs.

Twas a warning Enlightenment ! To anyone talking with you to, ...... Be Aware !
Good Day

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++​

POT < > KETTLE AWARD.

FALSE BRETHREN BIG TIME.
ACCUSER OF THE BODY OF CHRIST.
THE DEVIL IS SO PROUD OF YOU.

 

[Soyeong]

-"And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

For a testament is in force after men are
dead, since it has no power at all while
the testator lives."
Hebrews 9:15-17 NKJV

Hebrews should not be interpreted as being opposed to following what the Bible says is truth. Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and the reason why he established the New Covenant was not in order to nullify anything that he spent his ministry teaching or so that we could continue to have the same lawlessness that caused the New Covenant to be needed in the first place, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 36:26-27).

 

[Dino246]

@Psalm1 & @Dino246
Sorry Folks ! I've already spent WAY too much time (wasted, it seem) talking, "arguing" with the like of y'all...
About keeping the God's Commandments .. Being obedient to God... Believing and obeying Jesus, ... with you being on the unbelieving & disobedient side. I tried.. but obviously, got nowhere, so ...
2 Timothy 3:5
"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

My posting "@you" was rhetorical. Anyone "arguing" with you very long KNOWs you believe "that God's Law has been done away with" and I would bet a dollar to a nickle that, you believe Sunday worship ................... Don't You ?

My mentioning you by name, was to point the likes of you out to other folk getting into discussions with you, like "Toknow".. Letting them know which spirit they are dealing with..
Ya'll being good examples of "false prophets" Revelation 16:13, 19:20, 20:10

• Matthew 24:11: “And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.”
• 2 Peter 2:1: “But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you.”
• 1 John 4:1: “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God.”
• Deuteronomy 13:1–5: Commands Israel to reject prophets who lead people to worship other gods, even if they perform signs.

Twas a warning Enlightenment ! To anyone talking with you to, ...... Be Aware !
Good Day

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++​

You are a slanderer and therefore a false witness.

You have provided no evidence that I have said anything you accuse me of saying or believing. Either quote me or apologize and retract your slander.

 

[Journey_man]

You follow the 1689 Baptist confession?

The 1689 does not even contain the good news.
There is no good news in the reformed faith.
What could the good news possibly be?
To wait around and see if God wills for us to be saved?

Here is the good news:

GOD LOVES HUMANITY AND WISHES THAT NONE BE LOST
GOD SENT HIS SON SO THAT WHOEVER BELEIVES IN HIM WILL BE SAVED
JESUS SACRIFICE WAS AN ATONING SACRIFICE OFFERED FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS FOR ALL MANKIND
JESUS DEFEATED SIN AT THE CROSS
HE DEFEATED DEATH AT THE RESURRECTION AND WE TOO WILL BE RESURRECTED
JESUS OPENED THE GATES OF HEAVEN FOR ALL WHO WERE WAITING FOR HIM
WE CAN BE FORGIVEN THROUGH BELIEVING/FOLLOWING JESUS

Will now go back to see why I asked.

OK
Because you misrepresented everything I stated so I felt your belief system needed to be clarified.

You sounded like some on here that believe there are two gospels.

No, I don't follow the 1689 Baptist Confession, I follow the Lord Jesus.

You obviously haven't read any of the 1689 confession, if you read number 2 of the summary, you would see the good news.

There may not be any good news for you, in Reformed theology, but there is for us who know we are saved.

The good news is that I deserve to be cast into hell, but God sent His only begotten Son to take the punishment for me. So I am saved by His stripes.

I don't need to wait around to see if God keeps His promise, because I know He is not a liar.

I don't know where you got the idea that God loves all humanity, and wishes that none be lost, but I haven't found anything of the sort in my Bible.

I haven't found anything to support your idea that "the atonement of Jesus was offered for the forgiveness of sin for all mankind".

The Lord Jesus defeated the power of sin and death for Gods people, on the cross. Everyone will be resurrected, some onto eternal life in paradise and others onto eternal punishment in hell.

I've never heard about this "Jesus opening the gates of heaven for all who were waiting for Him". Could you please reveal your source for this information.
I've never heard that we can be forgiven through believing/following Jesus. My Bible says those who believe shall be saved, it doesn't say "can be" as if salvation depends on keeping the law and doing good works.

You misrepresented everything I stated, I can only assume it's because your denomination preaches a different version of the gospel.

 

[Journey_man]

@Journey_man

In post 897 you misrepresented almost everything I posted to you.
I asked you to please show where i posted your incorrect statements about me.

This seems to go on around here and I don't appreciate being misrepresented.

If you do not understand what I'm saying...
please ask for clarification
or
don't respond...that is always an option.

I did ask why you don't believe the Bible, where it says that everyone is born dead in sin. There are many other verses that confirm that man is born totally depraved, we don't have the ability to change our sin nature.

 

[Journey_man]

The above includes YOUR faith system journeyman.



Yes sir.
God accepts our good works.
Do you also believe they're like filthy rags as many do?
You're not supposed to believe that since you're reformed...
but who can know for sure these days.


What part of what God said do I not agree with?
I agree with EVERYTHING GOD said.
I don't agree with everything MAN said.
John Calvin was a man BTW.

You absolutely did not understand anything of what I said because everything you read is colored by your belief system.

The above is what Gods Word reveals about the matter, I didn't make it up.
God does not accept "our good works".
Works done by unregenerate people, regardless of how virtuous they appear outwardly, do not please God.
Because these works do not proceed from a heart purified by faith, nor are done for the right end (God's glory), they are considered sinful.
While God may use the outwardly good works of unbelievers (e.g., civil obedience, charity) for the benefit of society, these acts do not make an unbeliever acceptable to God.

I have already mentioned a few verses that you don't seem to believe. Please state the reason, you don't believe them.

God has never invited anyone to examine His ways, and to agree with Him. He doesn't care about your opinion, He does whatever He pleases whether you like it or not. The only thing that matters is, if you believe in Him.

 

[JayWalker]

You obviously haven't read any of the 1689 confession

Why would anyone read that mess when they can read and study God's Word?

That always cracks me up and people that go to bible college or seminary where they spend all their time studying writings by authors who talk about what they think God says in His Word.

That's just being goofy! We have God's Word and He sent THE Teacher to teach it to us.

No need for bible college or seminary when we got the Word and the Holy Spirit.

I did ask why you don't believe the Bible, where it says that everyone is born dead in sin. There are many other verses that confirm that man is born totally depraved, we don't have the ability to change our sin nature.

The Lord did not actually say every little baby was born a sinner and He never said He put sin in to every little baby while they were in the womb.

I was not born a sinner.

No, I was born in to a world full of darkness and sin and before knowing the Lord I began to let the world influence me and then I began to sin. All have sinned, so that's what made us sinners.
Jesus tells us children are innocent:

“And he said: ‘Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.’” – Matthew 18:3

“When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, ‘Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.’” – Mark 10:14

“Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” – Luke 18:17

“Jesus said, ‘Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.’” – Matthew 19:14

“Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation.” – 1 Peter 2:2

 

[JayWalker]

Here's a funny funny that tickles me.

Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. Romans 5:18

The "we all born sinners" crowd likes to use Romans 5:18 to claim condemnation came upon all me but this same verse also says that righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification.

Funny ain't it?
If we go by their logic then we'd all be universalists because it's clear right there in Romans 5:18 - righteousness came upon all men unto justification.

Reformed theology people are "glass half empty" people. They sure are negative seeing they use Romans 5:18 to say condemnation came up on all men and then quit read the rest of the verse which also says righteousness came upon all men unto justification.

 

[KohenMatt]

My salvation and righteousness lies in nothing else other than than the life, death, and resurection of Jesus.

How then shall I live? As closely as possible to the life my Saviour lived. (While failing continually.) If He lived "as it is written," shouldn't I strive to as well?

 

[JayWalker]

My salvation and righteousness lies in nothing else other than than the life, death, and resurection of Jesus.

How then shall I live? As closely as possible to the life my Saviour lived. (While failing continually.) If He lived "as it is written," shouldn't I strive to as well?

Uh oh, the reformed theology crowd is going to accuse you of trying to earn your salvation by living as close to the Lord as possible.

One question though, why do you expect to fail continually??
Didn't you get the Holy Spirit when you got saved?

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

2 Corinthians 2:14
Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

 

[Journey_man]

Why would anyone read that mess when they can read and study God's Word?

That always cracks me up and people that go to bible college or seminary where they spend all their time studying writings by authors who talk about what they think God says in His Word.

That's just being goofy! We have God's Word and He sent THE Teacher to teach it to us.

No need for bible college or seminary when we got the Word and the Holy Spirit.


The Lord did not actually say every little baby was born a sinner and He never said He put sin in to every little baby while they were in the womb.

I was not born a sinner.

No, I was born in to a world full of darkness and sin and before knowing the Lord I began to let the world influence me and then I began to sin. All have sinned, so that's what made us sinners.
Jesus tells us children are innocent:

“And he said: ‘Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.’” – Matthew 18:3

“When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, ‘Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.’” – Mark 10:14

“Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” – Luke 18:17

“Jesus said, ‘Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.’” – Matthew 19:14

“Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation.” – 1 Peter 2:2

Why would any sensible person read and study the Bible, without a teacher. If you give the Bible to a 1000 different people, they will come up with a 1000 different interpretations.
This is why the Church has fragmented into 49,000 opposing Christian Denominations. That's the number of Denominations, but there must be many millions of radically opposed interpretations held by individuals who have their own private interpretation of the Bible. So according to you, mass confusion is good, as long as you form your own opinion without a teacher.

Yes we have Gods Word, but there are 49,000 opposing interpretations of it. So how do we know which of these possesses the true interpretation of Gods Word.
The Teacher who God sent is no longer here, so we can't ask Him anything. The only way you could speak with Him is if you found a way to ascend to heaven, where He is seated.

Who's got the Word and the Holy Spirit?. What do you mean by, "we got the Word and the Holy Spirit".

The Lord Jesus didn't need to put sin in every unborn baby, we inherited our sin nature from Adam, at the point of conception.

Psalm 51:5 "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me".
Romans 5:12, 19: "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man [Adam], and death through sin... by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners".
Ephesians 2:3 "...and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind".
Psalms 58:3 "The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies".
Genesis 8:21"...the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth".

These verses confirm that humans are legally guilty and spiritually corrupted from birth, necessitating regeneration by grace alone.

No, you were born into a world full of sinners like yourself, you weren't born any different from the rest of us.

 

[Mem]

Uh....wheoponizing God's word against God's people??
While claiming to be a superior believer????

Lets see...who is the champion of that???
The devil.

Amazing the hippocrysy of Rob7 and his fellow little accusers of the brethren.

Ahem....lining up with the devil in accusing the brethren is a blue ribbon hypocrite award.

SMH.
Clown act big time

If you are in Christ, then there should be no wonder that the authorities would want to crucify you.

 

[Qt]

Because the above statement is saying that if one sins then one is under the condemnation of the Law and thus the Blood atonement of the LORD Jesus is of no effect.. Useless to save sinners.

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

 

[Adstar]

Plz cite Scripture where is the “penalty of law.”

I am astounded that someone needs confirmation that the penalty for breaking the law is death..

(Deuteronomy 27:26) "Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen."


(Romans 6:23) "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

So for anyone under the law they are cursed with death if they fail to do them.. One failure leads to death.. But through Jesus who takes away the wages/ penalty of sin.. The sins power ( death ) has been removed..

I would also like to quote the passage dealing with the symbolism of nailing to the cross our sins..


(Colossians 2:13-14) "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; {14} Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"

People under the penalty of the law where dead in their sins.. Because of the penalty of the Law.. Through the Atonement of Jesus we are forgiven all our trespasses.. Now if the Law was not still active we would have no need for the Atonement of the LORD Jesus.. Because without the law there is no longer any trespass.. But we are still all sinners because we trespass the Law .. The ordinances that where against us was not the law such as thou shalt not steal.. The part of the Law that was against us is the death penalty that was due upon us for breaking the Law.. So Jesus did not nail the Laws to the cross, He nailed the penalty of the Law to the cross..

 

[Adstar]

Are you claiming to be a sinner? Walking after the flesh in rebellion against the Lord?

That would be ill advised to say the least

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOES righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not

You dodge the question because you are a sinner and your doctrine if applied to yourself would see you condemned..

And your point is pointing to WILLFUL sin, a willful sinner is not the same as a sinner.. Willful sinner is proud of their sin/ loves their unrighteousness.. Totally different from a repentant sinner..

 

[Qt]

Uh....wheoponizing God's word against God's people??
While claiming to be a superior believer????

Lets see...who is the champion of that???
The devil.

Amazing the hippocrysy of Rob7 and his fellow little accusers of the brethren.

Ahem....lining up with the devil in accusing the brethren is a blue ribbon hypocrite award.

SMH.
Clown act big time

yet you done the same thing,,, But John the Baptist, Elijah, Elisha, and such have to. Including Jesus! Tis the season maybe?