The book of Job

[JayWalker]

Here, Job agrees to make declarations of faith unto God, and repent…get back in faith and forsake fear

Job 42:4-6
Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

Here God says that Job’s friends have spoken wrong of Him because He didn’t attack Job with evil, as they claimed

Job 42:7-10
And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.
So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job.
And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.

*Job prays for his friends and God accepts the faith prayers of Job. This opens the door for God to deliver Job from his troubles, and God blessed him with twice the amount of possessions that he had before satan’s attacks.

 

[GWH]

No, unless a person is looking at things from the devil's point of view.

When the power of the Lord prevents the devil from doing destruction, the devil claims God is being evil for doing that

All questions satan uses to entice people to not believe God is good and to blame God for things the devil has done.

All are questions that should be answered by preachers in sermons.
God promises that He will never be evil, even though He is free to be such,
and thus He deserves our praise for His righteousness and love.

 

[Suze]

Its interesting to c , if any of u have a concordance , how many times the word fear appears in Job and the context . It's worth looking into I think . I've done so and I think it has helped my understanding

 

[JayWalker]

God promises that He will never be evil, even though He is free to be such

No, God is not actually free to be evil.

1 John 1:5
God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

It's astounding some of the lies people believe about the Lord.

 

[JayWalker]

if any of u have a concordance , how many times the word fear appears in Job and the context

Jesus tells us to fear not.

So let's follow Jesus and not follow Job

 

[Suze]

Thus is why I LOVE the B.D.F. , JayWalker has helped my understanding of the book of Job . This is what I want from the B.D.F. ! We must not live in fear of anything in this world but especially two things , learning something new , and , admitting when we r wrong / mistaken etc . Fear is the opposite of faith . We will none of us ever b perfect , that's a fact , but it's our duty to learn the lessons that God wants to teach us from His Word the Bible and from His Word made flesh , Jesus Christ our Sinless Redeemer . Thank you JayWalker .

 

[JayWalker]

All are questions that should be answered by preachers in sermons.

So use low life Christians are forbidden from learning from God's Word and being led by the Holy Spirit?

We are supposed to accept whatever preachers tell us and not have our own relationship with the Lord.

All the false doctrine going around about Job comes from preachers who don't know what they are talking about who are ignorant of all the Lord teaches in His Word.

Jesus warned about false teachers

Matthew 24:4,5
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in My Name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

*Many includes those claiming "I am anointed to speak for God" that are deceiving many (false teachers)

 

[JayWalker]

Thus is why I LOVE the B.D.F. , JayWalker has helped my understanding of the book of Job . This is what I want from the B.D.F. ! We must not live in fear of anything in this world but especially two things , learning something new , and , admitting when we r wrong / mistaken etc . Fear is the opposite of faith . We will none of us ever b perfect , that's a fact , but it's our duty to learn the lessons that God wants to teach us from His Word the Bible and from His Word made flesh , Jesus Christ our Sinless Redeemer . Thank you JayWalker .

Don't thank me, the Lord is the One that should be thanked.

All I did was spend a lot of years digging out of false doctrine I was taught as a young believer and it was and is the Lord leading me to grow and learn.

2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind

Romans 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Luke 12:32
Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Here's the Lord's definition of the fear of the Lord:

Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way, And the perverse mouth I hate.

Many times in God's Word He tells His people to "FEAR NOT" and it's not a suggestion, it's a commandment

 

[christophernyc]

You tell me.

Job said what he feared came upon him and the Lord says living in fear is one of the things that cause people to go to hell.




Did you not read the rest of the Book of Job, or did you take one statement out and ignore the rest of the Book and ignore the rest of God's Word?

Go back and read all those scripture references I posted and let me know if we should cherry pick the bible and not take it all seriously as all of it being true

I would not call it cherry-picking. The verse in 2:3 is a very clear indication of how the entire premise of the story begins. Scripture says that Job suffered "without cause", according to God's own testimony about Job.

So, do you agree or disagree with this basic factual premise of the story? Are you saying then that Job suffered "with cause"?

 

[GWH]

No, God is not actually free to be evil.

1 John 1:5
God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

It's astounding some of the lies people believe about the Lord.

Yes, it is indeed astounding that some people believe they are freer than God!

The reason for such ignorance is that preachers avoid educating folks about such questions, the reason preachers do not educate
their congregations regarding such subjects is because they were poorly trained in seminaries, and seminary professors were also poorly trained in apologetics.

I realized my ignorance as I entered college and made it my goal in life to learn answers by studying the Scriptures,
reading the Bible completely through five times taking notes in the margins. I share what I have learned here on CC,
hoping to help other truthseekers by giving them a spiritual boost.

LIC, GWH

 

[JayWalker]

The verse in 2:3 is a very clear indication of how the entire premise of the story begins. Scripture says that Job suffered "without cause", according to God's own testimony about Job.

And then if you keep reading you'll see Job REPENTING in Job 42:4-6 and you'll see Job's friends saying God allowed this to come on him and God comes in and says Job's friends have spoken in error about God because He did not put this on Job.

It's good to take the entire Book of Job in to account as well as the entire Word of God in to account for those wanting to understand what really happened to Job.

Otherwise we are left with the idea that Job's friends had that God was responsible for Job being attacked and it was God's will for this to happen which it was not actually God's will.

So, do you agree or disagree with this basic factual premise of the story? Are you saying then that Job suffered "with cause"?

I accept the entire Book of Job, you obviously do not.

Like many I have encountered you apparently believe God caused this when God clearly says He did not.

I've posted scripture proving Job was living in fear and scriptures showing fear is sinful behavior so feel free to ignore the whole counsel of God if you really want to be God is evil and is putting evil on people and enjoys making people suffer like the false teachers in calvinism teach.

they were poorly trained in seminaries, and seminary professors were also poorly trained in apologetics.

Seminaries and bible colleges are where people go to be educated in false doctrine, primarily reformed theology which is demonic containing many lies by scripture twisting and cherry picking.

 

[christophernyc]

And then if you keep reading you'll see Job REPENTING in Job 42:4-6 and you'll see Job's friends saying God allowed this to come on him and God comes in and says Job's friends have spoken in error about God because He did not put this on Job.

It's good to take the entire Book of Job in to account as well as the entire Word of God in to account for those wanting to understand what really happened to Job.

Otherwise we are left with the idea that Job's friends had that God was responsible for Job being attacked and it was God's will for this to happen which it was not actually God's will.




I accept the entire Book of Job, you obviously do not.

Like many I have encountered you apparently believe God caused this when God clearly says He did not.

I've posted scripture proving Job was living in fear and scriptures showing fear is sinful behavior so feel free to ignore the whole counsel of God if you really want to be God is evil and is putting evil on people and enjoys making people suffer like the false teachers in calvinism teach.




Seminaries and bible colleges are where people go to be educated in false doctrine, primarily reformed theology which is demonic containing many lies by scripture twisting and cherry picking.

Hm. I did not really see an answer to the question posed. It was more of a "yes" or "no". Can you say either way that Job suffered "without cause" or "with cause"? Can you say yes or no?

Have you ever looked up the word "repent" in chapter 42? The word also means "relent" and to "comfort", which is not quite the same as "repent". (Strong's #5162). NASB: comfort, comforted, change mind, sorry, relent, changed mind, comforters

I'm guessing you are one of those who sees Job as a kind of prodigal son story? Is that right?

By the way, what is your take on 42:11?

Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.
Who would you say brought the evil on Job?

 

[GWH]

And then if you keep reading you'll see Job REPENTING in Job 42:4-6 and you'll see Job's friends saying God allowed this to come on him and God comes in and says Job's friends have spoken in error about God because He did not put this on Job.

It's good to take the entire Book of Job in to account as well as the entire Word of God in to account for those wanting to understand what really happened to Job.

Otherwise we are left with the idea that Job's friends had that God was responsible for Job being attacked and it was God's will for this to happen which it was not actually God's will.

I accept the entire Book of Job, you obviously do not.

Like many I have encountered you apparently believe God caused this when God clearly says He did not.

I've posted scripture proving Job was living in fear and scriptures showing fear is sinful behavior so feel free to ignore the whole counsel of God if you really want to be God is evil and is putting evil on people and enjoys making people suffer like the false teachers in calvinism teach.

Seminaries and bible colleges are where people go to be educated in false doctrine, primarily reformed theology which is demonic containing many lies by scripture twisting and cherry picking.

True, which is why I amended the OP of my thread regarding Apologetics to include refuting TULIP.

 

[tttallison]

In Job 2:3 God says:

And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

So according to your statement about why Job suffered, is it your belief then that there was a cause? Is that what you are saying? Can you clarify?

You are confusing Satan's cause with God's cause. Satan's cause was that Job would not bless God. But Job did bless God, and therefore Satan's cause was unjust.

There was a battle for the soul of Job, thus God's cause for allowing the affliction was to win Job's soul. It became obvious after the second test why God allowed the affliction. It was because Job no longer blessed God, nor did God proclaim Job's integrity, or his uprightness.

No one can proclaim their righteousness to be greater than God's, and yet be saved.

 

[JayWalker]

I amended the OP of my thread regarding Apologetics to include refuting TULIP.

Yes. Thank you for that

The calvinists are really messed up. They make God in to a complete monster. It's crazy.

God's cause for allowing the affliction was to win Job's soul.

Job was already with the Lord and was loyal so this is not true.

 

[Suze]

Yes. Thank you for that

The calvinists are really messed up. They make God in to a complete monster. It's crazy.





Job was already with the Lord and was loyal so this is not true.

As God knows everything from the begining to the end , I imagine that He knew that Job would stick with Him . This was a kick in the teeth for satan and most importantly a lesson to us , that is after all the whole point of the Bible , to help us to grow in faith and understanding of God and His plan and purpose with His creation . Job isn't just a narrative of something that happened ( though some believe it to be a parable not an account of actual events ) it's there to teach us something , wether or not it really happened is irrelevant , it's part of God's Word to us .

 

[GWH]

Yes. Thank you for that

The calvinists are really messed up. They make God in to a complete monster. It's crazy.





Job was already with the Lord and was loyal so this is not true.

Yes. God is morally free, but He chooses to be perfectly loving,
which is why He warrants everyone's praise for His righteousness.
Choosing to view Him as hateful toward the non-elect is monstrous,
and refusing to repent of such heresy warrants a just consequence.

 

[christophernyc]

You are confusing Satan's cause with God's cause. Satan's cause was that Job would not bless God. But Job did bless God, and therefore Satan's cause was unjust.

There was a battle for the soul of Job, thus God's cause for allowing the affliction was to win Job's soul. It became obvious after the second test why God allowed the affliction. It was because Job no longer blessed God, nor did God proclaim Job's integrity, or his uprightness.

No one can proclaim their righteousness to be greater than God's, and yet be saved.

This question was not directed to you. But also, as explained before, your assessment of Job being "lost" is blatantly false as anyone can discover by reading the text. Your viewpoint is to accuse and condemn Job and malign his character, which is the same viewpoint as satan.

 

[tttallison]

This question was not directed to you. But also, as explained before, your assessment of Job being "lost" is blatantly false as anyone can discover by reading the text. Your viewpoint is to accuse and condemn Job and malign his character, which is the same viewpoint as satan.

God maligned Job's character when God asked Job, Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

And, Job 40:8-10 Will you also disannul my judgment? will you condemn me, that you may be righteous? Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him? Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty.
It is obvious that in the above verses God is asking Job if he thinks he is equal to God. An in the following verses he describes what he has done to Job.

Job 40:11-14 Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him. Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret. Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.

God has already presented the king over all the children of pride to Job, and asked him if he was going to take him for a servant forever.

You don't believe Job was wicked, but if someone exalts themselves above God, are they not wicked?

Job 41:4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?
Job 41:34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

Job 40:14 Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee. God is asking Job if he thinks he can be his own saviour.

You take a verse where God says Job was moral and upright, in the beginning of the book, at the expense of the entire rest of the book.

In your opinion does being moral save you?

 

[Suze]

Don't thank me, the Lord is the One that should be thanked.

All I did was spend a lot of years digging out of false doctrine I was taught as a young believer and it was and is the Lord leading me to grow and learn.

2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind

Romans 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Luke 12:32
Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Here's the Lord's definition of the fear of the Lord:

Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way, And the perverse mouth I hate.

Many times in God's Word He tells His people to "FEAR NOT" and it's not a suggestion, it's a commandment

Revelation Ch 21 , verses 7+8 .