What did I say that you think is in opposition to God's Word?Sorry, I can’t believe your words, because they’re in opposition to God’s word.
What did I say that you think is in opposition to God's Word?Sorry, I can’t believe your words, because they’re in opposition to God’s word.
In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God spoke to him without departing from it, so I have been promoting that we should follow God's Word while you are refusing to accept it. In Matthew 4:4, Jesus also said that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God, so again I have promoting that we should allow God's Word while you are refusing to accept it. You are refusing to submit to what God has spoke, so you are the one who is taking the position that you know better than God. If you think that the position that we should live by every word that comes from the mouth of God is leading people astray, then you are taking the position that God is leading us astray.Entirely false doctrine, but you refuse to accept God's word. You know what God's word has to say, yet you know better than God. I'll remind you, so perhaps you will at least quit trying to lead others astray. Alternatively, you could buy yourself a millstone.
Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example, so the topic that they were debating in Acts 15 was not whether followers of Christ should follow Christ but whether salvation is circumcision (Acts 15:1) or by grace (Acts 15:11). In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of Moses was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message that Peter argued that Gentiles had heard and believed in Acts 15:6-7, so he was agreeing who the Pharisees from among the believers in Acts 15:5 against then men from Judea (Acts 15:1). In Ezekiel 36:26-27, God will take away our hearts of stone, give us hearts of flesh, and send His Spirit to lead us in obedience to the Law of Moses, which is in accordance with Peter arguing in Acts 15:8-9 that Gentiles had received the Spirit and had their hearts cleansed, so again he was agreeing with the Pharisees. In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Law of Moses, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, which is in accordance with what Peter argued in Acts 15:10-11 that Gentiles are saved by grace just as we are, so again, he came down firmly on the side of with the Pharisees.Acts 15
"1Then some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2And after engaging these men in sharp debate, Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.
3Sent on their way by the church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, recounting the conversion of the Gentiles and bringing great joy to all the brothers. 4On their arrival in Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and apostles and elders, to whom they reported all that God had done through them.
5But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and declared, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.” 6So the apostles and elders met to look into this matter.
7After much discussion, Peter got up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you that the Gentiles would hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith.
10Now then, why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
12The whole assembly fell silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul describing the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13When they had finished speaking, James declared, “Brothers, listen to me! 14Simona has told us how God first visited the Gentiles to take from them a people to be His own. 15The words of the prophets agree with this, as it is written:
16‘After this I will return and rebuild the fallen tent of David. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it, 17so that the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things 18that have been known for ages.’
19It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not cause trouble for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals, and from blood. 21For Moses has been proclaimed in every city from ancient times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
22Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to select men from among them to send to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas called Barsabbas and Silas, two leaders among the brothers, 23and sent them with this letter:
"The apostles and the elders, your brothers,
To the brothers among the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings.
24It has come to our attention that some went out from us without our authorization and unsettled you, troubling your minds by what they said.c 25So we all agreed to choose men to send to you along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to tell you in person the same things we are writing.
28It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond these essential requirements: 29You must abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things."
You are deceived. David loved God's law so much that he committed adultery and murder. That's one of God's elite, a man after God's heart. Read Acts 15 again. Maybe you will get it. I doubt it, you are too far gone.The Psalms express an extremely positive view of obeying the Law of Moses, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, so if Acts 15:10 had been referring to the Mosaic Law, then they would have been expressing a view that is incompatible with the view that the Psalms are Scripture.
The issue of the difference between those two covenants is astronomical.The old covenant is set forth in the book of Deuteronomy. It was made between God and Israel. It is a covenant of works by which the nation would receive blessing and remain in the land for covenant obedience and suffer severe judgment and lose the use of the land for covenant disobedience.
The new covenant was ushered in by Christ with His resurrection. This covenant, however, was not between God and men, but between God the Father and God the Son. The beneficiaries of this covenant are those who believe. And unlike the first covenant, individuals are not responsible to maintain any terms because Christ has already done all that is necessary. Additionally, the latter covenant deals with salvation while the former covenant deals only with Israel prosperity in the land or judgment and possibly losing access to the land.
Not understanding the nature of the 2 covenants leads to much confusion.
I still don't understand what your saying?If Gentiles could not become Jews, then it wouldn't make any sense for them to be discussing whether Gentiles should become Jews.
Something is wrong with how Soyeong comprehends the text.You are deceived. David loved God's law so much that he committed adultery and murder. That's one of God's elite, a man after God's heart. Read Acts 15 again. Maybe you will get it. I doubt it, you are too far gone.
Look Soyeong, Rome had both Jews and Gentiles.The letter was written to the saints in Rome (most likely made up of Gentile and Jewish converts). Once again, the Jewish converts were out of sorts in their thinking.
If a Gentile wants to convert to being a Jew, then part of the process involves them becoming circumcised, though circumcision does not automatically make someone a Jew. For example, roughly 70% of the men in the US were circumcised as babies, but that doesn't make someone a Jew.I still don't understand what your saying?
Does circumcision turn a Gentile into a Jew???
I take the positions that followers of Christ should follow his example of obedience to what God has commanded, that servants of God should not be interpreted as speaking against following what God has spoken, and that the Apostles should not be interpreted as expressing views that are contrary to what they considered to be Scripture, but if you think that there is something wrong with this, then perhaps there is something wrong with how you comprehend the text.Something is wrong with how Soyeong comprehends the text.
Indeed, Romans had both Jews and Gentiles and there were Jews that Paul had a problem with, but in Romans 2:17 he was addressing Gentiles who had converted to being Jews and were now calling themselves Jews.Look Soyeong, Rome had both Jews and Gentiles.
That was the problem, the Jews were judging the Gentiles because they knew the law
and they knew God. The Gentiles knew nothing about Israel, the law, the temple, sacrifices,
nor the history of Israel.
Paul should be understood in the context of a Jew who practiced Judaism, not as being opposed to it. If you go to Jewish websites, then you can see teachings about grace, faith, and righteousness, so these are not concepts that got invented by Paul in the NT.The Jews were a real problem for Paul because they would corrupt the Roman church.
Paul had to take the Jews on and explain why the law does not grant righteouness.
Paul had to explain in depth why grace and faith mattered.
The way to have the gift of eternal life is the same under the New Covenant as the Mosaic Covenant. The Mosaic Covenant is also faith based while the New Covenant is also works based. The New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33). We can't earn our righteousness even as the result of having perfect obedience to the Mosaic Law because it was never given as a way of earning our righteousness in the first place (Romans 4:1-5), but rather it was given to describe the life of someone who is righteous as it describes the life of Christ, so it was what we get to become a doer of by being given the gift of righteousness through faith (1 John 3:4-7).The issue of the difference between those two covenants is astronomical.
For some obscure reason many people do not understand that the new covenant is a
divine covenant. God Himself granted eternal life to anyone who called on His name.
The new covenant is faith based where as the old covenant was strictly obedience based.
The old covenant enabled the acquisition of real estate and that's about it.
The new covenant granted immortality as a free gift.
The new covenant fulfilled all things for eternity for us.
How can anyone combine two completely different covenants?
The old covenant was cancelled but the new covenant is forever.
The old covenant was a conditional covenant conditional on obedience to the law.
The law does not deliver a divine righteousness and never did.
You are opposed to following Christ's example of obedience to what God has commanded and you think that I am the one who is deceived? In Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed to determine that someone is a false prophet is if they speak against obeying the Mosaic Law, so if is either incorrect for you to interpret the Jerusalem Council as doing that or they were false prophets, but either way followers of Christ should follow his example of obedience to what God has commanded. The Mosaic Law is truth (Psalms 119:142), so you are the one who is decided because you are the one who is opposed to following what the Bible says is truth. David did not commit adultery and murder because of his love for God.You are deceived. David loved God's law so much that he committed adultery and murder. That's one of God's elite, a man after God's heart. Read Acts 15 again. Maybe you will get it. I doubt it, you are too far gone.
Baffling from start to finish.The way to have the gift of eternal life is the same under the New Covenant as the Mosaic Covenant. The Mosaic Covenant is also faith based while the New Covenant is also works based.
Sure, Gentiles can become Jews. There is provision in the OT for that. Why would they? Why embrace a covenant that brings death when you could enjoy the covenant of new life? Of course, you prefer the covenant of death, but that's your choice.If Gentiles could not become Jews, then it wouldn't make any sense for them to be discussing whether Gentiles should become Jews.
This is what I disagree with in my earlier post..According to you Jesus removed 98% of the law and the prophets.
Then you highlight the verse below.
Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets
Not only was 98% of the law shredded the covenant between God and Israel ended.
I can see a contradiction here?
Did Jesus fulfill the ten commandments or not?
If Jesus fulfilled the ten commandments then, the entire law has passed.
That is why Paul makes statements like the one below.
Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
You cannot hold onto to the law and Jesus at the same time.
You and I both know that's not true and more importantly God knows. There is nothing we can hide from Him. Ecc12:13-14. Even when you took a Scripture and isolated it from the context and I asked you to explain by the same passage which law its referring to you refused. I am happy to back up what I post with Scripture if asked.…that I’m not interested in!? You’re the one that doesn’t seem too interested in what God says. You refute verses when they’re given, even when we explain them, you refute it.
So who is not interested?
-"Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,"
Philippians 3:2-3 NKJV
-"So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those...
I refer you to Acts chapter 15. Your denial of God's word leaves you in bondage. the law of Moses has no application to Gentile believers. I live by the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ my King. Lord Jesus does not require me to attend church on Saturday. If you wish to observe before the sunset on Friday to after sunset Saturday, good for you. You have no right to try to impose laws intended for Israel on gentile believers. Remember what God said? "Hear O Israel".You and I both know that's not true and more importantly God knows. There is nothing we can hide from Him. Ecc12:13-14. Even when you took a Scripture and isolated it from the context and I asked you to explain by the same passage which law its referring to you refused. I am happy to back up what I post with Scripture if asked.
Feel free to respond to my post directly to you, one of many, not just posting a verse without the context but really going through it and explanting it by Scripture from a very long Bible study. Its easy to make accusations, sadly too many focus on that over what the Scriptures really say in its context.
-"Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,"
Philippians 3:2-3 NKJV
-"So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those...
There are several different Sabbaths in the Bible that uses the same word, but has very different meanings.
There is the seventh day Sabbath- instituted at Creation Exo20:11 Gen2:1-3, came before sin, reaffirmed in the Ten Commandments Exo20:8-11, written by God personally Exo31:18, placed inside God’s ark Exo40:20 God called it “the holy day of the Lord” Isa58:13
There are the annual sabbath(s) feast days that are always tied to animal sacrifices, they don’t always fall on the seventh day can be on any day and came after the fall and were handwritten by Moses, placed besides the ark of God’s covenant came after sin.
We see these in Leviticus 23 and these are additional feasts besides the Sabbath of the Lord- the seventh day Sabbath Lev 23:37-38
- 1st day of Unleavened Bread
- 7th day of Unleavened Bread
- Pentecost
- Trumpets
- Day of Atonement
- 1st day of Tabernacles
- 8th day of Tabernacles
So I think we are being quick to assume by seeing the word Sabbath that has different meanings and assuming it means the Holy Day of the Lord that comes with God's blessing and sanctification , without looking at the context that Paul carefully gave and we should let the Bible interpret itself.
Col 2:14 KJV Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross.
Col 2:14 NASB having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Greek word for handwriting: χειρόγραφον (cheirographon)
Literally: “something written by hand
Ordinances
τοῖς δόγμασιν (tois dogmasin)
Meaning: “decrees,” “regulations,” “legal demands”
It is a legal document that condemns sinners why Paul used the word “against us” and “contrary to us”. The law does not condemn the righteous, it condemns the sinners.
Just from this context that Paul gave we can eliminate the Ten Commandments, but lets let Scripture interpret Scripture.
Who wrote the handwritten ordinances?
2 Chron 33:8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.
What law is the law that was contrary and against?
Deut 31:24-26 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;
It appears from the text that this is not referring to the Sabbath in the Ten Commandments that was written by God Himself by His finger Exo31:18 placed inside the ark of the covenant, not besides like the annual sabbath(s) connected to animal sacrifices.
This is the law that was taken away at the Cross.
Col 2:16 let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
This is the exact language referring to the annual sabbath(s) that were handwritten by Moses, placed besides the ark that refer to annual feasts days, sacrifices and offerings that some were also called sabbath(s)
Eze 45:17 and it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.
What did Jesus say He would come to put an end to? (compared to magnifying another law- by placing it in our hearts Isa42:21 Heb8:10)
Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ
What are the shadows laws? Lets let the Scriptures define what they are
Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once []purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, []O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been []sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all
This fits the context of this passage perfectly and makes the Bible harmonize because we see Sabbath-keeping (every Sabbath) 30+ years after the Cross just as Jesus Himself indicated Isa 56:6-7 Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 and up to His Second Coming Mat24:20-30 and forever Isa66:22-23
In the council for the Gentiles they were keeping already keeping every Sabbath Acts 15:21 because its a commandment of God, not the law of Moses like circumcision.I refer you to Acts chapter 15. Your denial of God's word leaves you in bondage. the law of Moses has no application to Gentile believers. I live by the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ my King. Lord Jesus does not require me to attend church on Saturday. If you wish to observe before the sunset on Friday to after sunset Saturday, good for you. You have no right to try to impose laws intended for Israel on gentile believers. Remember what God said? "Hear O Israel".
You should also be circumcised, offer sacrifices in the temple and obey God's food laws. Then you could be a good sabbath keeper and obey the law of Moses. You will also live a life that cannot please God. You will not be justified. Your sins will not be forgiven. If you are born again, then you will not be sent to hell. You will not receive the blessings of the Kingdom that God has in store for those who are devoted to Christ
If you are not born again, none of your religious gymnastics will save you.
I believe it.Baffling from start to finish.
Here is a simple verse.
Tell me if you believe it or not.
Romans 10:13
Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.
I believe it.
Why do you think that you need to be saved from not living in obedience to the Mosaic Law if you also think that you have no need to refrain from not living in obedience to it?
Everyone needs a day of rest. Which day is not important. Paul said as much to the Colossians. I refer you to Acts 15 once again.Exo 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Rev 7:3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.”
Rev 23:3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.