No living faith without works

[markss]

1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
No man is righteous by their faith alone, without doing God's righteousness.

I John 3 joins James 2 rebuking the lie of faith alone justification, that began deceiving the believers early in the Christian churches.

I would caution you against thinking you can have your own righteousness that will satisfy God.

Philippians 3:8-11 KJV
8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11) If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Much love!

 

[markss]

To be perfectly clear:

Are you saying you no longer sin? Fully ceased from sin? Be bold!

Much love!

 

[markss]

James 2 shows that anyone saying they have faith alone, do not have the faith of our Lord Jesus that saves. They're faith alone is no better than the devil's faith alone in God.

The distinction is that we are saved by faith alone, but not by faith that is alone.

If you claim to be born again, and you are not changed, then where is the veracity of your claim?

Much love!

 

[Inquisitor]

Yes it's by grace that salvation is available but we are worthy only because we believe

I would omit that word "worthy".

Salvation is offered as a free gift by the grace of God at the primary level.

At a secondary level, your response to the grace of God is a belief, trust, faith, in Jesus alone.

Jesus is the object of your trust not anything that you have done, are doing, or will do.

Precision is important in the understanding of that gift of salvation.

Grace itself nullifies any human input.

You can say that we are saved by grace.

 

[markss]

Already quoted Scripture being justified by works, and not by faith alone.

Do you really think you have to show God your works so He can know if your faith is real?

That seems strange to me that you think God is not allknowing, but then, you aren't the only one to think that way.

Much love!

 

[markss]

Grace itself nullifies any human input.

That's a beautiful thing!

Much love!

 

[ATG]

Nedsk said:
Tell us one Bible verse that says you are saved by "faith alone".
It does not say that we are saved by faith.

The challenge was saved by faith alone.

So, obviously the answer to the question is, that Jesus does not say any man is saved by faith alone. Which He couldn't say, since He says having faith alone cannot save any man.

It does not say that we are saved by faith.

No man is saved by faith at all? Not only saved without works, but also without faith?

I've heard of some new kind of Christian thing called 'radical' grace. This must be it.

Why is it that people are so focused on what we must do?

Jesus Christ is not just any people.

Sinners who don't like having their sinful deeds talked about, shouldn't read the Bible.

You really think that we are that good?

We? As in who? Unrighteous sinners? Of course not. No man is any good while doing evil. Nor is any man righteous, while doing unrighteousness.

1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

1Jo 3:8
He that is committing evil is of the devil; for the devil is sinning from the beginning.

We are saved by grace, and even our faith is the faith of Jesus, not ourselves.

This is true. That's why no man is saved by their faith alone, but only by the faith of Jesus Christ, which He freely gives to all that repent of their sinning for His sake.

Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ ,even we have believed in Jesus Christ , that we might be justified by the faith of Christ...

Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

We are not saved by works.

Being justified by works is not without salvation by faith in Jesus Christ.

You also do not know the difference between the initial, born again experience and the salvation of the soul.

Now a difference between being born again and saved?

Saved by grace alone, not by faith, not by works, not by being born of God?

If so, Radical indeed.

Do you not see? Salvation really is of God ".....And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’" Acts 2:21. I don't see any mention of works there. Likewise Romans 10:9

Matth 12:37
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned…for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

The natural man does not believe in the works of the spirit of man, nor that Jesus judges words as works, as well as evil thoughts and intents of the heart.

You think God is impressed with your deeds?

You think everyone is doing your deeds? That God does not honor?

God is only pleased with Jesus.

God is only pleased Jesus' deeds, and them that do His works by His faith.

Jhn 8:29
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Now if you are born again, you died and your life is hidden in Christ with God. If you are dead, how can you work?

So, you're dead and do no works??

Who's typing all these words?

 

[Nedsk]

You gave a Bible verse where Jesus says do the will of the Father. What’s the will of the Father? Why does Jesus tell them to depart if they did all the works?

You said works make faith salvific. Paul explains how a person is justified before God, while James explains how genuine faith is shown in a person’s life. Paul speaks of the root of salvation and James speaks of the fruit, because you cannot truly work for someone before you first put your faith in them. Without faith, your works are ultimately just working for yourself. It is like trying to make a tree produce fruit before it has roots, versus a healthy tree naturally bearing fruit. The root(salvation) produces the fruit(works) not the other way around.

No I said what James said, works complete faith. Now if faith alone is sufficient for salvation why does it need completion? What I get is response from you people is works aren't necessary but if you're a christian you'll do the good works. When I ask why that matters if faith alone is sufficient the answers get more bizarre. Works are products of faith, they're evidence of faith as if God needs evidence. Then I hear if a Christian doesn't do good works then they were really saved or were never really Christians non the first place. Thats my favorite silly response

I would omit that word "worthy".

Salvation is offered as a free gift by the grace of God at the primary level.

At a secondary level, your response to the grace of God is a belief, trust, faith, in Jesus alone.

Jesus is the object of your trust not anything that you have done, are doing, or will do.

Precision is important in the understanding of that gift of salvation.

Grace itself nullifies any human input.

You can say that we are saved by grace.

We ARE saved by grace if we do the will of the heavenly Father just like Jesus said. We are saved by grace through a faith that is made complete by works just like james said. You arent arguing with me friend.

Look if something needs completion then by definition not can't be sufficient by itself. Your brain doesn't need to stop working once you believe. You've been fed this faith alone stuff and you can't see the error. I get it.

 

[Nedsk]

I would omit that word "worthy".

Salvation is offered as a free gift by the grace of God at the primary level.

At a secondary level, your response to the grace of God is a belief, trust, faith, in Jesus alone.

Jesus is the object of your trust not anything that you have done, are doing, or will do.

Precision is important in the understanding of that gift of salvation.

Grace itself nullifies any human input.

You can say that we are saved by grace.

So grece itself nullifies any human input so once someone is saved they can do whatever they like and they remained saved. Excellent

 

[ATG]

Abraham never got to offer his son because the Lord intervened (Genesis 22).

James{2:21}
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Obviously, much of faith alone preaching and teaching, is just what people themselves believe, not what the Bible says. Either that, or they don't pay attention to the words, but only what they want to believe.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: i

The reason people's faith alone does not save nor justify them with Jesus Christ, is because it's only what people believe for themselves. The Bible is just words in a book.

So I would not use that as an example of works.

As we see here.

The Bible does. That's why it says Abraham and Rahab were justified by their works: Abraham having offered up Isaac, and Rahab having led the spies out another way.

 

[Toknow]

What was silly about my comments? Why is the question silly? Just because you can’t answer it, does that make it silly. Have you always avoided questions about your view when asked?

Here’s you another silly question. How can you tell the difference between genuine faith and just faithfully doing the required works?

Are you really unable to answer that question?
IS THERE A DIFFERENCE'

Those that gave you a like will be happy to help you out, I'm sure.

@mailmandan
and
@Dino246

And did you STILL MISS my replies to you???
Maybe you jsut don't care to read them?

Check out my post no. 335

And stop asking silly questions that are not worthy of a Christian that CLAIMS to understand his faith.

 

[ATG]

Ultimately, James stresses the point that works perfect your faith.

Without which faith does not justify a man.

Faith without works is simply believing without doing. Neither God nor man cares what others believe, but what we do.

That's why no man is justified by what they believe alone, especially when they're not believe God's own words.

James is effectively identifying what a genuine faith is.

Correct. The only faith that saves and justifies a man, is with works justified by God.

Anyone saying they have faith alone without their works, does not have the faith of our Lord Jesus that always does good.

So if someone in church looks hungry take them out to dinner.

Thus you have perfected your faith.

Simple stuff.

True. So, if someone has faith without works, their faith is dead. Simple.

 

[Toknow]

Want to play a game and see who can find all the methods you use? Below are the common ways people avoid answering questions on forums:

1. Deflection – Changing the topic instead of addressing the question.

2. Answering a Different Question – Reframing the question into something easier to answer.

3. Strawman – Misrepresenting the argument and responding to that instead.

4. Questioning Motives – Claiming the question is asked in bad faith.

5. Ad Hominem – Attacking the person instead of addressing the argument.

6. Appeal to Emotion – Using emotional responses instead of logical answers.

7. Long Tangents – Writing a long response that buries the original question.

8. Red Herring – Introducing an unrelated issue to distract from the question.

9. Moving the Goalposts – Changing the standard after a point has been answered.

10. Selective Quoting – Responding only to the easiest part while ignoring the main question.

11. Overgeneralizing – Making broad statements instead of addressing the specific issue.

12. Appeal to Authority – Citing an authority instead of explaining the reasoning.

13. Semantic Arguments – Arguing about word definitions rather than the point.

14. Pretending the Question Was Answered – Claiming they answered it when they didn’t.

15. Ignoring the Question – Responding but skipping the question entirely.

16. Whataboutism – Responding with “what about this other issue?”

17. Gish Gallop – Flooding the discussion with many claims at once.

18. False Dichotomy – Presenting only two options when more exist.

19. Appeal to Mystery – Saying the issue can’t be understood or known.

20. Conversation Exit – Abruptly ending the discussion when the question becomes difficult.

21. Question with a Question – Instead of answering, they respond with another question to shift the burden back to you.

Looks like you're very friendly with AI.

Too bad you're not as friendly with God.

HE has all the answers for you.

 

[ATG]

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

A free gift cannot be earned.

Salvation is that free gift.

The free gift is only to them that repent of sinning for Jesus' sake.

Never look at your own Christian life as if, some how, you contributed to your own salvation.

Never look at your own faith alone, as though somehow, you're saved by it.

Boast in Jesus Christ.

Trust in Jesus Christ to keep us doing good, and not any evil.

Jas 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

[ATG]

Yes. We are saved by faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) but not by a bare profession of faith that remains alone/barren of works. (James 2:14-26)

True. Very simple.

Jas 2:1
My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

The simple difference between have the faith of our Lord Jesus that saves our soul, vs saying we have faith alone without works.

Anyone saying they have faith alone without works, does not have the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ that does good.

 

[ATG]

So, where do our works come in? Only really with our continued belief in Jesus that won't separate us from Him.

Exactly. If our faith in Jesus remains steadfast, then also our works will remain good, and not evil.

5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one is not touching him.

If we do evil, we have forsaken faith in Jesus Christ.

1Jo 3:8
He that is committing sin is of the devil; for the devil is sinning from the beginning.

It's only hard for the transgressor not to do evil. It's not hard at all for those with Jesus' faith to do good, and not evil.

Mat 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Mat 6:34
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Our other works won't save us

What 'other' works?

 

[Inquisitor]

So grece itself nullifies any human input so once someone is saved they can do whatever they like and they remained saved. Excellent

The scripture does not say you can do what ever you like.

Though in your case I would, dare to say, that you have often done what ever you liked to do.

Once again, we are saved by the very grace of our Lord at the fundamental level.

Salvation is freely given to anyone who calls on the name of the Lord, fact.

Now the question that needs to be answered is shown below.

Can a saved person void that free gift of salvation through their own behavior, rejection of Jesus.

Definitely, the concept of "falling away" is mentioned in the scripture and the warnings also.

We can trample underfoot that gift of salvation by rejecting Jesus, which is demonstrated
in a person's behavior. How you treat others is probably the strongest evidence available,
to know if a person is really saved. A genuine faith will exert love at some stage.

Back to basics, salvation is always a free gift.


.

 

[ATG]

No living faith without works?

Depends: true if stated for Israel; false if stated for the Body Of Christ - ie:

It's true for any man on earth.

James 2 is speaking a common principle of faith: Any person on earth having faith, and not doing it, has dead faith, being alone without works.

Jesus Christ is simply telling people not to decieved themselves, that our faith in Him does not 'transcend' works to save all alone.

Anyone believing anything and not doing it, is deceiving themselves that their faith matters in this life, much less the next.

Gal 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting…For there is no respect of persons with God.

Anyone saying they have faith alone without works, is only condemning their own faith.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

No I said what James said, works complete faith. Now if faith alone is sufficient for salvation why does it need completion?

Are you lying or just forgetting? I’ll post your comments to help you remember

Post 201

Works complete faith to make it salvific.

Post 203

Therefore works make faith alive and by deduction, salvific.

James is saying that Abraham expressed the maturity or completeness of his faith through his works. Abraham already had faith before his works and was counted righteous before doing anything (Genesis 15:6). His willingness to offer his son demonstrated the heart behind his faith, not the completion of the act itself. God intervened before it was physically done. The point is that faith is expressed in the heart, not in finished works. Nowhere does Scripture say that faith must be “completed” by works to be salvific. Works are the evidence of living faith, not a requirement for salvation.

 

[ATG]

We are ambassadors for Jesus Christ.

Preachers of their faith alone, are ambassadors for themselves alone.

2 Cor {4:5}
For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake.
Only those preaching the faith of the Lord Jesus to do good, and not evil, are ambassadors for Jesus Christ.

We preach that belief in Jesus Christ for salvation.

2 Corinthians 5:20
Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us;
we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Colossians 1:22
Yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him
holy and blameless and beyond reproach.

Your works have nothing to do with our reconciliation to God in Christ.

No man doing evil works has any reconciliation with God.

So, let's hear your preaching of faith alone justification:

Are you reconciled and justified with God in Christ, when doing evil?

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

No one knows Jesus Christ at all, while transgressing His word. No matter how determined anyone is to know Jesus by their faith alone.

1Jo 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and is not keeping his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Determination to know Jesus by one's faith alone, without doing His will, is only stargazing, and shooting for the stars by their own will alone:

Isa 14:12
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.