Loss of salvation???

[Toknow]

Nope, they do not disagree; they confirm.
Those verses were given as edification to the saved, because only the saved, as saved, will be able to truly satisfy them.
An attempt to satisfy those by the unsaved will not bring salvation to them, as only Christ, as Savior, is able to save.

Who is talking about the unsaved???

They're lost.

WHY would they want to follow God's ways if they don't believe in God?

Now...would you care to read those verses again and give an explanation as to why it's OK to walk in darkness?

 

[Roger316]

What good is the bible, even kept as a whole, if we cannot even agree on what it's teaching?

We are not talking about the Bible's reliability; we are talking about our ability to understand it. I maintain that most of the Bible can be understood by a reader with an eighth-grade education. There are some difficult passages, but even so, there are Bible tools online that anyone can use.

How to reconcile these big differences?

It isn't up to us to reconcile them for other people. Each individual is responsible for reconciling Bible questions for themselves. The can certainly ask other people questions or seek knowledge from a scholar, a pastor, or a Bible commentary. But the onus lands on the Bible student and follower of Jesus.

These differences did not exist until very recently.

This doesn't matter.

Perhaps, yes, THE CHURCH should be decideing what being Christian entails.

No, the church should not be deciding what it means to be a Christian. Paul argued against this idea in his letter to the Colossians. We are not led by a church, we are led by the Holy Spirit and men whom Jesus sent to lead us.

After all, it's THE CHURCH, that kept Christianity safe for us so we could pull it apart into different factions...

If you are talking about the Roman Catholic church, I disagree. The Roman Catholic church defended its dogma, which was sometimes right and sometimes wrong. Men like Martin Luthor challenged church dogma, using the Bible. He is the forerunner of those like us who hold ourselves to the scriptures.

and this is not what Jesus wanted.

Ephesians 4:4-5
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Paul's reference to the "One Body" is a reference to all of Jesus followers, wherever they might be, who believe in him and walk according to his teaching. He is not talking about an institution or an organized church congregation.

1 Corinthians 1:10
10I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

Paul called for unity during a time when he and many of the apostles were still alive. If a believer had a question about doctrine, they could ask Paul himself. Today, when believers have questions, they must read and understand the writings of the Apostles instead.

At the same time, we must acknowledge the linguistic distance between us. We are separated from the apostles by language and culture. For this reason, Bible students learn techniques and disciplines to help them avoid bias and presupposition, allowing the heart and the message of the Apostle to shine through.

John 17:21
21That they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you,
However,,,authority does have its problems too.
absolute power
corrupts absolutely

Our authority is Jesus Christ and his apostles who can not be corrupted.

I don't believe this is correct Roger.

See if you agree with this:

A person reads the bible for himself and comes to believe that no matter what they do they will be saved.
Many on these forums will state this. Not too many thankfully...even those that bellieve in OSAS do post that we are to live
in accordance with God's will.

But not all do and a wrong teaching is giving and some will absorb this...
either by others or by their own reading.

There are plenty of reasons why people fail to obey Scripture. Misunderstanding what we read is certainly one of them—but it’s rarely the main one. More often than not, the issue isn’t that we can’t understand the Bible; it’s that we do understand it and don’t like what it reveals about us. The problem isn’t confusion. It’s confrontation. Scripture exposes motives, loyalties, and desires we’d rather leave unexamined, and resisting that exposure is far more common than simply misreading the text.

BUT
God demands obedience and He demands that we do not live a life of sin.
Revelation tells us that nothing unclean will enter into heaven.

So? Aren't some taking a big chance with their eternal sou?

Revelation 21:27
27 and nothing unclean, and no * one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever * come into it, but only * those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

A person's eternal soul is in the Hands of the Holy Spirit, which means that we can trust the Holy Spirit to do the right thing. This allows us to adopt a humble attitude and try to be as helpful as possible.

 

[Toknow]

Verse 13? "If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot * deny Himself."
Why is that?

A clue is to be found here...

Saul (Paul) had been persecuting Christians.
How does the Lord see a Christian in relation to Himself?

He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”​

​

“Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.​

​

“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. Acts 9:4-5​

What means He can not deny Himself?
“Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”

Himself? That spoke of the body of Christ!
For that's who Paul had been persecuting.
And the Lord sees Himself and His Bride as being one flesh!

As far as faith itself?
He remains faithful to the achievement of the absolute completeness of the atonement,
no matter how hard a person may try to tempt him to toss him away.

Your last paragraph is correct.

You said:

"He remains faithful to the achievement of the absolute completeness of the atonement,
no matter how hard a person may try to tempt him to toss him away."

God remains faithful to HIMSELF....not to those that deny Him or there would be a conflict between verse 12 and verse 13.
God remains faithful to what you stated: His promises. The completeness of the atonement as a work of propitiation.
God has kept His promise to save mankind....Genesis 3:15
God WILL NOT remain faithful to those that deny Him, as some believe.
This is clearly stated in verse 12.

2 Timothy 2:12-13
12........If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot * deny Himself.


As you've correctly explained verse 13, the conflict is removed. (that some create by misunderstanding).
Many believe that God will remain faithful to sinners,,,,even though they are denying Jesus.

If we deny Jesus, He will deny us before God. Verse 12

But God will always remain faithful to His promises. Verse 13

 

[Toknow]

Excuse me?

You just replied.

But didn't really give an answer.

I just posted to you.

 

[Toknow]

In other words, the verses does not mean what it says.

Thanks for "rightly harmonizing" these verses for us.

Yes sir.
The other poster does this a lot.
He's very good at twisting scripture.
Very good at trying to explain away PLAIN AND CLEAR verses.

This is a disservice to new Christians or those with doubts as to their salvation.

 

[Toknow]

I would respectfully suggest that it all starts and ends with God's unilateral saving of someone through Jesus Christ the Savior, with all other spiritual changes occurring and flowing from that.

Are you also reformed?

 

[Toknow]

We are not talking about the Bible's reliability; we are talking about our ability to understand it. I maintain that most of the Bible can be understood by a reader with an eighth-grade education. There are some difficult passages, but even so, there are Bible tools online that anyone can use.

It isn't up to us to reconcile them for other people. Each individual is responsible for reconciling Bible questions for themselves. The can certainly ask other people questions or seek knowledge from a scholar, a pastor, or a Bible commentary. But the onus lands on the Bible student and follower of Jesus.

This doesn't matter.

No, the church should not be deciding what it means to be a Christian. Paul argued against this idea in his letter to the Colossians. We are not led by a church, we are led by the Holy Spirit and men whom Jesus sent to lead us.

If you are talking about the Roman Catholic church, I disagree. The Roman Catholic church defended its dogma, which was sometimes right and sometimes wrong. Men like Martin Luthor challenged church dogma, using the Bible. He is the forerunner of those like us who hold ourselves to the scriptures.

Paul's reference to the "One Body" is a reference to all of Jesus followers, wherever they might be, who believe in him and walk according to his teaching. He is not talking about an institution or an organized church congregation.

Paul called for unity during a time when he and many of the apostles were still alive. If a believer had a question about doctrine, they could ask Paul himself. Today, when believers have questions, they must read and understand the writings of the Apostles instead.

At the same time, we must acknowledge the linguistic distance between us. We are separated from the apostles by language and culture. For this reason, Bible students learn techniques and disciplines to help them avoid bias and presupposition, allowing the heart and the message of the Apostle to shine through.

Our authority is Jesus Christ and his apostles who can not be corrupted.


There are plenty of reasons why people fail to obey Scripture. Misunderstanding what we read is certainly one of them—but it’s rarely the main one. More often than not, the issue isn’t that we can’t understand the Bible; it’s that we do understand it and don’t like what it reveals about us. The problem isn’t confusion. It’s confrontation. Scripture exposes motives, loyalties, and desires we’d rather leave unexamined, and resisting that exposure is far more common than simply misreading the text.


A person's eternal soul is in the Hands of the Holy Spirit, which means that we can trust the Holy Spirit to do the right thing. This allows us to adopt a humble attitude and try to be as helpful as possible.

Right.
UNDERSTANDING the bible is what I'm referring to.

And I don't see any scripture so there's nothing above to reply to.

You could try agan WITH SCRIPTURE.

I'm not here to talk.
I have friends for this.

 

[Roger316]

Come on Roger.
Be nice.

YOUR comments were also in my post to you.
Had to go back too far.

Your habit is to remove statements from their context as if they weren't intended to derive meaning from the surrounding passage.

What do you mean you can't read your own statements?
Don't you know what you believe?
Do you change from post to post??

I know what I believe, yes. But I didn't find your quotations familiar. I had no way to verify that I actually said what you claimed that I said. But assuming that you quoted me accurately, you didn't quote enough of what I said.

You believe God does it all with no cooperation from us.
Right.
I've been saying this all along.

If God accomplishes everything from beginning to end....
this removes free will from the salvation process.

Not in my view.

This is known as monergism....

I don't believe in monergism or synergism.

and you still haven't explained a 3rd way.

When you find that your own perspective isn't right or working, then I will offer you an alternative. Until then, what is the point? Our only productive course of action is to discuss the scriptures, not trade philosophical positions.

No. You have not resolved the conflict.
First you said man does have free will,,,and you've said this repeatedly.

THEN you state that God does everything.

Can't be both.

Yes, they can.

yes sir.
Calvinists love Romans 9:16

I never claimed to be a Calvinist.

What is puzzling me is that someone of your caliber of intelliegence will actually try to use this verse
thinking the other member will become confused.

On the contrary, I offered the verse to alleviate confusion.

Surely you must know what this verse means?

I know what it means in context. Paul argues that salvation does not depend on human will.

Here's the Calvinist view...the view YOU adhere to since you posted Romans 9:14 as a proof text

I am not a Calvinist. But okay, let's talk about what You presented.

In Romans 9:11-13 Paul has asserted that God elected Jacob but not Esau and that this election was not due to any works done by them at all; in fact it was done before they were born. The purpose given why God acted this way is that his goals in creation and redemption might in no way hang on the "works" of men but might be wholly dependent on himself.

That God should have no respect to human deeds in electing men may seem to some unjust. So Paul raises this question in 9:14 and answers with a resounding NO, God is not unrighteous to act this way. Verse 15 is then given as a ground (for: gar) for Paul's assertion that God is righteous to act this way. Verse 16 is given as an inference (therefore: ara oun from verse 15. Together verses 15 and 16 support the righteousness of God in his sovereign election. How do they function to give this support?

source: https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/the-argument-of-romans-9-14-16

Before we talk about what every other denomination believes, let's talk about what you quoted above. Saying that something is wrong doesn't make it wrong. And truth does not depend on majority opinion, so it doesn't matter what every other denomination believes.

From now on, let's try to draw a distinction between a man's interpretation of a passage and his philosophical conclusion. I think Calvin's interpretation of the above passage is correct. I agree with THAT. I think Calvin's philosophical conclusions were wrong and I disagree with THEM. That is why I am not a Calvinist. The Reformers were good at interpretation but bad at Philosophy.

Here's what every other denomination believes:
Take your pick. I believe the following is correct....I'm not reformed.
It's the idea that our works do not save us....
only God's mercy/grace saves us.

I agree with you.

Of course, our free will has something to do with our salvation.

Yes—but not in the way people often assume. We do freely believe in Christ and continue as His disciples, but only after God has transformed our hearts. Scripture calls this the circumcision of the heart, and it is part of salvation itself. That’s why salvation cannot depend on the man who wills: the renewal of the will is one of the very things God accomplishes in saving us. Our choosing Christ is real, but it is the result of God’s prior work, not the cause of it.

If you're not willing to expose the 3rd choice...
it can only mean that you have very little confidence in it.

Stick with the scriptures.

And I don't enjoy philosophical talk.

You make a lot of philosophical statements and assumptions. Why ask me about concepts like monergism if you don't enjoy Philosophical talk?

 

[Standard]

You just replied.

But didn't really give an answer.

I just posted to you.

If you're referring to the other thread, I have replied. If not, then I don't know what you mean...

 

[rogerg]

We can lose our salvation. It is possible to fall away:

No, it isn't possible because those who become saved, become saved, not by what they have done or will do, but because they have been covered by Christ - by His offering and His sacrifice - as He alone is the Savior - it is not within man's power to be his own savior nor his own un-savior. You do believe that Christ alone is the Savior, don't you?
I'm not going to go through every verse you posted to refute them, but I believe they can generally be summed up and answered with the following verses - that it is possible to believe for a while and sill yet fall-away. This is because that type of belief is an intellectual belief which originates from the mind of man, not a belief that accompanies salvation - a belief placed into the spiritual heart of man, which is how a true belief enters and resides within man. In addition, true belief is not what saves anyone, it is a free gift as the result of salvation (which also is a free gift) given by an exceedingly merciful and gracious God through Jesus Christ the Savior - it is not by man.


[Luk 8:12-15 KJV]
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of [this] life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep [it], and bring forth fruit with patience.

You might have missed this from a prior post, but I believe that it conclusively proves that once saved always saved because it is God Himself who has clearly made Himself its guarantor. Notice in v4 (below) - that salvation is by inheritance and reserved in heaven for those whom He has chosen to salvation. If reserved by God, then it must come to fruition exactly in that way - with no changes or exceptions to it permitted. Notice in v5 that they are "kept by the power of God" (not man), "unto salvation", the final salvation of the last day.

[1Pe 1:3-5 KJV]
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I believe this in confirmed with the following verses - that once the testator (Christ) died, no changes to His will and testament - either to add to it, or to remove from it - were permitted.

[Heb 9:15-17 KJV]
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

 

[rogerg]

Who is talking about the unsaved???

They're lost.

WHY would they want to follow God's ways if they don't believe in God?

Now...would you care to read those verses again and give an explanation as to why it's OK to walk in darkness?

I don't understand your point. As I believe @Roger316 eloquently stated in his post, and as I tried to state (but not so eloquently), that those verses were intended as edification to the saved - he was/is teaching those saved regarding the characteristics of salvation.

 

[rogerg]

Are you also reformed?

Yes, I guess you could say that, but I would rather identify myself, first and foremost, as a Biblicist

 

[studier]

Let me say first off (and maybe you disagree) that salvation from the penalty and presence of sin is a once off and is not something we can succeed or fail. Salvation from the power of sin requires our utmost attention to detail and co-operation with the will of God and we can fail that miserably or succeed wonderfully and all the levels in between.

I have given what you have said here some thought and I've tried to look at it from as many angles as I can but at the end of the day what I hear is a Father, having spent His greatest treasure to give a gift, gives it to those He knows don't really want it, and gives to His Beloved Son, people He knows don't really want Him, all so He can "honour" man's volition?

I'm reminded of 1Tim.3:12. How can the Lord expect pastors to rule their own households well if He will allow those who belong in the lake of fire to walk in and out of His house just so they can be seen to be free to choose what they want?

I'm sorry studier but I just don't buy it.

To my mind, I don't see a God who should be glorified but a God who is weak and wasteful. It's all well and good to look at just the last day of it's application but we cannot ignore all the days leading up to it with it's comings and goings, literally.

If you have another way of looking at it without, what I see as elevating man's volition to heights it was never intended to have, I'm all ears.

I'm just telling you what I see in verses.
Does Jesus telling us He won't force a man to leave mean he can't leave? The answer seems self-evident.

 

[Toknow]

Your habit is to remove statements from their context as if they weren't intended to derive meaning from the surrounding passage.

I know what I believe, yes. But I didn't find your quotations familiar. I had no way to verify that I actually said what you claimed that I said. But assuming that you quoted me accurately, you didn't quote enough of what I said.

Not in my view.

I don't believe in monergism or synergism.

When you find that your own perspective isn't right or working, then I will offer you an alternative. Until then, what is the point? Our only productive course of action is to discuss the scriptures, not trade philosophical positions.

My perspective is working just fine.
Thanks for your help however.

Yes, they can.

I never claimed to be a Calvinist.

Doesn't matter what you claim Roger.
Your statements are reformed in nature.
That makes you a calvinist....whether you like to be called one or not.

You know what they say about the duck....

On the contrary, I offered the verse to alleviate confusion.

I know what it means in context. Paul argues that salvation does not depend on human will.

I'm not a pelagian....
I always said the Holy Spirit is our helper.

Romans 9:14 is ALWAYS used by Calvinists.
And you used it.

YOU believe God does it all.
Calvinist belief system.
Monergism.

I am not a Calvinist. But okay, let's talk about what You presented.

Before we talk about what every other denomination believes, let's talk about what you quoted above. Saying that something is wrong doesn't make it wrong. And truth does not depend on majority opinion, so it doesn't matter what every other denomination believes.

Exactly.

§Which is why I post SCRIPTURE.

Something YOU do not bother to do.
Seems like it's YOU that believes your statement makes it right....not me.

From now on, let's try to draw a distinction between a man's interpretation of a passage and his philosophical conclusion. I think Calvin's interpretation of the above passage is correct. I agree with THAT. I think Calvin's philosophical conclusions were wrong and I disagree with THEM. That is why I am not a Calvinist. The Reformers were good at interpretation but bad at Philosophy.

That's a pretty funny statement.
The interpretations were good....
but what they did with them was bad.

So their proper interpretation of scripture DID THEM NO GOOD.

Funny.

I agree with you.


Yes—but not in the way people often assume. We do freely believe in Christ and continue as His disciples, but only after God has transformed our hearts. Scripture calls this the circumcision of the heart, and it is part of salvation itself. That’s why salvation cannot depend on the man who wills:

THE MAN WHO WILLS just means that we will not be saved by our works but by our faith in God.
Your first sentence is correct AS STATED.
You DO NOT always state it this way.

I cannot spend time on here trying to translate what you say.

the renewal of the will is one of the very things God accomplishes in saving us. Our choosing Christ is real, but it is the result of God’s prior work, not the cause of it.

Sounds like ORDO SALUTIS again.

I have to leave this post.

Stick with the scriptures.

You make a lot of philosophical statements and assumptions. Why ask me about concepts like monergism if you don't enjoy Philosophical talk?

I'm not asking you anything Roger.
You may have not noticed that yet.
I have NOTHING to ask you.

Monergism is a calvinist idea.
It states that God does everything.
YOU post like a monergist.

Andl you're pulling my chain all along.
Don't think I haven't noticed.

If you don't care to explain THE THIRD WAY,,,,
which does not exist...
fine.
But don't hold it over my head as if I'M the one that is required to DO SOMETHING in order to get YOU
to explain it.

I really DO NOT CARE about a third way that is in your mind.

 

[Lovette]

So he lost his inheritance.
And what is OUR inheritacne?
Is it not heaven?

Eternal union with Lord Jesus, some will be his inner circle with the most intimate relationship with him (such as Peter, James and John), some will have a close relationship (such as the other disciples and the women that followed Jesus), others will have a rather distant relationship (such as the 70 he sent off). Unprofitable servants will receive no reward.

I'm not good with eschatology so I won't reply to the above.

As far as I could understand the utter darkness is where God is not present.
To me this represents hell....where God will not be present.
The only light we have is the light God furnishes.

Those that were removed from the Banquet were also thrown out into the darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Not a good place to be.

Maybe, I'm sure absolutely sure either. This says the "sons of the kingdom" will be cast into this outer darkness. I've heard from some sermons that "sons of the kingdom" are identified as the Pharisees, Sadduccees and their modern counterparts in the church, if that's true, they'll be called LEAST in the kingdom, but at least they'll still be in the kingdom.

“Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel! And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matt. 8:10-12)

Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven ... (Matt. 5:19)

 

[Lovette]

However, now, after the cross,,,,those in Abraham's bossom have been released to heaven.

I doubt it. After the cross, the thief beside Jesus was promised to be with him "in paradise TODAY", and they both went down to the grave.

 

[Toknow]

No, it isn't possible because those who become saved, become saved, not by what they have done or will do, but because they have been covered by Christ - by His offering and His sacrifice - as He alone is the Savior - it is not within man's power to be his own savior nor his own un-savior. You do believe that Christ alone is the Savior, don't you?
I'm not going to go through every verse you posted to refute them, but I believe they can generally be summed up and answered with the following verses - that it is possible to believe for a while and sill yet fall-away. This is because that type of belief is an intellectual belief which originates from the mind of man, not a belief that accompanies salvation - a belief placed into the spiritual heart of man, which is how a true belief enters and resides within man. In addition, true belief is not what saves anyone, it is a free gift as the result of salvation (which also is a free gift) given by an exceedingly merciful and gracious God through Jesus Christ the Savior - it is not by man.

You won't explain MY verses,,,,but I'll explain YOURS.
This is because it's very easy to and apparently mine are not.

It would have been nice, however, if you DID take the time to explain why they don't mean what i think they mean.

however...we'll move on with YOURS.

(in an attempt to avoid playing verse ping pong).

[Luk 8:12-15 KJV]
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of [this] life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep [it], and bring forth fruit with patience.

You might have missed this from a prior post, but I believe that it conclusively proves that once saved always saved because it is God Himself who has clearly made Himself its guarantor.

Well, let's see if Luke stating what Jesus taught is presenting the idea of OSAS.

Those in Verse 12 hear the word but never receive it.
Those in Verse 15 are the good soil. They hear the word an KEEP IT. They bring forth fruit.

Now....

Verse 13.....These receive the word WITH JOY. This means they HEARD the word and received it. It planly states this.
Jesus Himself is stating that THEY BELIEVED FOR A WHILE. A believer is a saved person. They believed for A WHILE.
and then they FELL AWAY.....due to temptation.

There are different reasons why a person might fall away...
the fact is that it is possible.
Paul confirms this many times, as do the other writers.

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then have fallen away,
Verse 14...These are those that hear but allow the cares of the world to hold them back.
Jesus said that if we wish to follow Him...
we must not look back.

Luke 9:62
62 But Jesus said to him, "No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."



So we can see that Jesus and other writers do not support the concept of OSAS but warn us that this is possible.

Notice in v4 (below) - that salvation is by inheritance and reserved in heaven for those whom He has chosen to salvation. If reserved by God, then it must come to fruition exactly in that way - with no changes or exceptions to it permitted. Notice in v5 that they are "kept by the power of God" (not man), "unto salvation", the final salvation of the last day.

Did you say that God CHOOSES who will be saved?
Is it based on something?

Man does not lose his free will when he becomes saved.

Nothng MUST come to fruition.
God has done His part...
now it is up to us to do our part....
obey Him.
Not let temptation take us away from Him as in verse 13 about the sower.

[1Pe 1:3-5 KJV]
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

We all agree.

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Correct.

Notice that we are KEPT BY FAITH.
If we lose Faith...
we lose salvation.

Also, you posted a verse that does not help you too much.
It states
THROUGH FAITH
UNTO SALVATION READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME.

Our salvation will be revealed at the end.
This is precisely because we may...along the way....in our lifetime....somehow decide we no longer wish to serve God.
We cannot be 100% certain right now that we will still have FAITH when we die.

I believe this in confirmed with the following verses - that once the testator (Christ) died, no changes to His will and testament - either to add to it, or to remove from it - were permitted.

[Heb 9:15-17 KJV]
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

The above is just stating that Jesus had to die in order for the New Covenant to become valid.

I'm sure you'll agree that we must be IN the NC
if we wish to be a part of it.

Since God demanded obedience in every Covenant of His....
This obedience that is required has not been rescinded.
It is still obligatory for man to obey God.

Even though the NC is unilateral.

 

[Toknow]

I don't understand your point. As I believe @Roger316 eloquently stated in his post, and as I tried to state (but not so eloquently), that those verses were intended as edification to the saved - he was/is teaching those saved regarding the characteristics of salvation.

The writers were trying to get persons to heaven, to salvation.

If you care to show how the verses are for EDIFICATION...I'd be interested.
But just stating it,,,as the other member does....does not make it be true.

It's extremely important to understand scripture.

We can come to it with some presuppostion,,,but if we read passages that tend to go against what we already believe,,,
then we must face the fact that we MIGHT not be 100% correct in our belief system.

I've had to change.
It doesn't mean you will...but we should at least read verses correctly.

Where is the edification?

 

[Toknow]

Yes, I guess you could say that, but I would rather identify myself, first and foremost, as a Biblicist

No problem.
It's just that I'm very sensitive to reformed statements and I pick up on them.
Just wanted to make sure so I could undersatnd you better.
We're not here to discuss that...so all good.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Just a book huh?

The bigger question is why do you always add claims to my posts that I didn’t make?

When I said having a couple drinks isn’t bad for everyone, I was talking about moderation, not advocating drunkenness.

When I said the Bible is a book and doesn’t have the Holy Spirit, I was referring to the physical object, the paper and ink, not dismissing its message.

When I said I use AI as a tool, that is all I meant. I never said AI has the Holy Spirit.

Maybe try to respond to what I actually say in the future and not the conclusions you’re adding to it.