Loss of salvation???

[Toknow]

Believers who walk in the Spirit?
And keep feeding upon the accurate teaching of Truth that God keeps providing them?
They do not reap what they sow.
Those ones will reap what God sows for them, in blessings, and in edification, in a manner they could not have imagined.

Its not a matter of following rules and regulations "faithfully."
It is being led into a transformation that the Spirit brings about that causes one to walk as God desires.

Genez

We all reap what we sow.
Believers
Unbelievers
The good
The bad

If you need help,,,you might want to speak to Wm Graig.
He'll set you straight.


Paul did a good job of it too....

Galatians 6:7
7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever * a man sows, this he will also reap.

 

[Toknow]

Certain truth bores you....

Truth is never boring Genez.

How You understand it might lead to boredom.

 

[Roger316]

Peter, Paul, and James answer that question. God tests our faith and if we endure, then we know it won't ever fail.

LOL
HOW do you know NOW that you're going to endure till the end?

You need a rest Roger.
All the interaction with ME has you stressed out.

Enduring the test is the proof.

 

[Toknow]

Enduring the test is the proof.

You seem to like philosophy Roger316.

Let's try again:

YOU said one will know he is saved by enduring till the end.
Can YOU see down the corridors of time?
Are YOU able to see into the future and know that you endured till the end?

If one must wait till the end to know that he has endured.....
as YOU have stated.....

Then he cannot know RIGHT NOW whether or not he is saved...
because the end has not appeared yet.

 

[studier]

How can we know that we are saved?

Feelings?
Presumption?
Esoteric Knowledge?
Church Proclamation?

How can we know our fate?

Your answer?

 

[Genez]

Summary of Thieme's teaching.

Not all agree with attaching 1Cor11:30 to 1John5:16-17.

When things like this come up, I go back and look at them in Scripture and at times in the systems.

Why did you bring up Thieme's teaching?

You think it is what I was taught?

 

[Genez]

Genez

We all reap what we sow.
Believers
Unbelievers
The good
The bad

If you need help,,,you might want to speak to Wm Graig.
He'll set you straight.


Paul did a good job of it too....

Galatians 6:7
7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever * a man sows, this he will also reap.

If we seek/sow God's maturity in Christ?
We will reap blessings that God will give.

You disagree?

Context?

4 Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves ​

to someone else, 5 for each one should carry their own load. 6 Nevertheless, the one who receives instruction in the word should share all good things with their instructor.​

​

7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.​

 

[studier]

Why did you bring up Thieme's teaching?

You think it is what I was taught?

You're referencing the angelic conflict as taught by him, basic loss of rewards theory taught by him and others, you've posted his link for others several times.

 

[NightTwister]

It seems his question went over your head.

The question is how do you know the pronouns apply to you personally?

You simply replied with the same two pronouns, "those" and "who".

I will make it easy for you.

How does someone know (beyond the shadow of a doubt) that they are at the same station in life as those who Paul & John are speaking about?

How???

Feelings.
Esoteric Knowledge.
Presumption.
Church Proclamation.

Because God says so.

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life." -- 1 John 5:13 ESV

 

[Genez]

You're referencing the angelic conflict as taught by him, basic loss of rewards theory taught by him and others, you've posted his link for others several times.

Is that why?

You act as if he fabricated these ideas without any Scriptural verification.

Angelic conflict is like bringing up the Civil war.
It is a category of Scriptural reality.
Dr. Donald Grey Barnhouse taught the same concept.
Get a copy of "The Invisible War."

It has a broad scope in information and application.
The teaching open me up to do my own thinking, which would not always line up with something RBT concluded.

And, believers will lose rewards without loss of salvation....
It is Scriptural.

Why can't you with all your exegetical skill not know that for yourself?

Thieme did not pen the following words.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15​

​

​

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. ​

If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, ​

their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be ​

revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been ​

built survives, the builder will receive a reward. ​

If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as ​

one escaping through the flames. ​

​

1 Corinthians 3:11-15​

Does that not plainly say that a believer can lose his rewards?
Yet he will not lose his salvation???

Who needs Thieme for knowing that?


.....

 

[studier]

Is that why?

You act as if he fabricated these ideas without any Scriptural verification.

Angelic conflict is like bringing up the Civil war.
It is a category of Scriptural reality.
Dr. Donald Grey Barnhouse taught the same concept.
Get a copy of "The Invisible War."

It has a broad scope in information and application.
The teaching open me up to do my own thinking, which would not always line up with something RBT concluded.

And, believers will lose rewards without loss of salvation....
It is Scriptural.

Why can't you with all your exegetical skill not know that for yourself?

Thieme did not pen the following words.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15​

​

​

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. ​

If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, ​

their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be ​

revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been ​

built survives, the builder will receive a reward. ​

If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as ​

one escaping through the flames. ​

​

1 Corinthians 3:11-15​

Does that not plainly say that a believer can lose his rewards?
Yet he will not lose his salvation???

Who needs Thieme for knowing that?


.....

Looks more like RBT than Barnhouse from what I gather about him. You've read and/or listened to both, correct? Are you denying you're influenced by RBT?

Whose the builder in 1Cor3?

 

[Lovette]

You believe that we lie in the grave until the resurrection at the end of the world.

You can believe that...it's not something I care to debate since it has nothing to do with salvation.

I do have a question however, if you care to respond.

If we want to believe that the soul is a real thing even though it cannot be seen or touched...it is not physical in nature....

and if we want to believe that we have the spirit of God in us and are spiritual creatures and the spirit cannot be seen or touched...it is spiritual in nature....


Then what happens to the soul and the spirit at death?

Contrary to the Platonic philosophy, which is the default belief for most people, that the body is a mortal vessel carrying the immortal soul, "soul", nephesh in Hebrew, psyche in Greek, is not a separate entity, but rather a living status, as shown in Gen. 2:7 - body + spirit = soul. Upon death, body and spirit are parted, body goes to the grave, spirit goes to God.

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being (soul). (Gen. 2:7)

And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I commit My spirit.’ ” Having said this, He breathed His last. (Lk. 23:46)

... he (Joseph of Arimathea) took it (body of Jesus) down, wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a tomb that was hewn out of the rock, where no one had ever lain before. (Lk. 23:53)

 

[Genez]

Looks more like RBT than Barnhouse from what I gather about him. You've read and/or listened to both, correct? Are you denying you're influenced by RBT?

Whose the builder in 1Cor3?

In the mean while

Loss of salvation???​

 

[TrustandObey]

Because God says so.

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life." -- 1 John 5:13 ESV

The question is not "why", the question is "how".

Are you really reading the question?

Seriously, be honest.

 

[TrustandObey]

Your answer?

If I was forced to pick, maybe esoteric knowledge.

But you would have to really trust the source.

What would you pick?

Or do you have another option?

 

[NightTwister]

The question is not "why", the question is "how".

Are you really reading the question?

Seriously, be honest.

Do you seriously not understand what God said? I'm unsurprised.

 

[Roger316]

You seem to like philosophy Roger316.

Let's try again:

YOU said one will know he is saved by enduring till the end.

Can YOU see down the corridors of time?
Are YOU able to see into the future and know that you endured till the end?

One n

If one must wait till the end to know that he has endured.....
as YOU have stated.....

Then he cannot know RIGHT NOW whether or not he is saved...
because the end has not appeared yet.

You seem to like philosophy Roger316.

Let's try again:

YOU said one will know he is saved by enduring till the end.
Can YOU see down the corridors of time?
Are YOU able to see into the future and know that you endured till the end?

If one must wait till the end to know that he has endured.....
as YOU have stated.....

Then he cannot know RIGHT NOW whether or not he is saved...
because the end has not appeared yet.

I DID NOT SAY that a person must wait until the end as you suggest. All three apostles say that we rejoice during our sufferings BECAUSE endurance leads to proof.

 

[Roger316]

You seem to like philosophy Roger316.

Let's try again:

YOU said one will know he is saved by enduring till the end.
Can YOU see down the corridors of time?
Are YOU able to see into the future and know that you endured till the end?

If one must wait till the end to know that he has endured.....
as YOU have stated.....

Then he cannot know RIGHT NOW whether or not he is saved...
because the end has not appeared yet.

The point is, a tested faith will endure to the end, but one does not need to wait until the end to find out.

 

[Toknow]

One n



I DID NOT SAY that a person must wait until the end as you suggest. All three apostles say that we rejoice during our sufferings BECAUSE endurance leads to proof.

THIS is what you stated in post no. 9214

"Peter, Paul, and James answer that question. God tests our faith and if we endure, then we know it won't ever fail."

You said IF WE ENDURE it won't ever fail.

HOW could you know that?

EVER is a long time.

You could be tested today and you might pass the test.

How do you know you'll pass the test 5 years from now?

YOU DO NOT.

 

[Gideon300]

The point is, a tested faith will endure to the end, but one does not need to wait until the end to find out.

Either you are born again or not. There is no in-between state. We are born again of an imperishable seed

1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.…

Verse 23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

If God's word can fail, those who are born again can die spiritually. How that works out in experience varies from person to person. One thing is for sure, God gets us all to the finish line, one way or another.