ARE YOU PRE-TRIB, MID-TRIB, PRE-WRATH, OR POST-TRIB?

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No. The shout, harpazo and chuppah are all COMPLETELY pre trib.
The Groom and Bride are enjoying their 7 day (7 trib years) CHUPPAH at the Fathers house.

11th step: Chuppah (חֻפָּה) – Bridal Chamber / Canopy

The couple enters the chuppah, symbolizing the consummation and union.

Traditionally associated with a seven-day bridal chamber period.
The bride /groom dynamic is how heaven views end times.
The bible ends with the spirit and bride BOTH calling out to heaven for the groom to come.

In the second coming, on white horses, there is absolutely zero there of a groom.

In fact, the bride has become the wife in heaven, during the trib.

The parting final words of the bible is the spirit and bride calling out to the groom.
Postribs are oblivious to the centerpiece of heaven.
In 40 years of debating them, I have never seen them even touch on the purpose of the rapture.

They are actually oblivious to God's purpose of the rapture and the trib.
Years of "study" wasted on a concept.
Never seeing what is right there in plain sight.
 
The bride /groom dynamic is how heaven views end times.
The bible ends with the spirit and bride BOTH calling out to heaven for the groom to come.

In the second coming, on white horses, there is absolutely zero there of a groom.

In fact, the bride has become the wife in heaven, during the trib.

The parting final words of the bible is the spirit and bride calling out to the groom.
Postribs are oblivious to the centerpiece of heaven.
In 40 years of debating them, I have never seen them even touch on the purpose of the rapture.

They are actually oblivious to God's purpose of the rapture and the trib.
Years of "study" wasted on a concept.
Never seeing what is right there in plain sight.
In fact, the bride has become the wife in heaven, during the trib.

Absolutely correct! Well spoken.
 
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No rapture at that time.
The white horse coming is saints with Jesus coming from heaven.
The NT lists 3 distinct comings.
Not one.
Would you please be kind enough to list the verses/passages for the three different distinct comings?

1) verse(s); verses(s); verses(s)
2) verse(s); verses(s); verses(s)
3) verse(s); verses(s); verses(s)
 
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Would you please be kind enough to list the verses/passages for the three different distinct comings?

1) verse(s); verses(s); verses(s)
2) verse(s); verses(s); verses(s)
3) verse(s); verses(s); verses(s)
1 thes 4 and mat 25 are the pretrib rapture. As is acts 1 " like manner" and mat 24 "before the flood one taken/one left"
All pretrib rapture.

The next gathering/coming is Rev 14.
It is a Jewish gathering/coming, which follows Jewish 144,000 firstfruits.

Then there is Rev 19, the second coming on white horses. In Rev 19 the church is already in heaven as the gathered bride pretrib, and she becomes the wife in heaven, with the marriage supper in heaven, as Jesus told the disciples at the last supper.

That is 5 or 8 dynamics totally missing in the doctrine of postribbers I talk to.

Jesus prophesied a wedding /supper in heaven at the last supper and illustrated it in the virgin parable of mat 25.
 
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1 thes 4 and mat 25 are the pretrib rapture. As is acts 1 " like manner" and mat 24 "before the flood one taken/one left"
All pretrib rapture.

The next gathering/coming is Rev 14.
It is a Jewish gathering/coming, which follows Jewish 144,000 firstfruits.

Then there is Rev 19, the second coming on white horses. In Rev 19 the church is already in heaven as the gathered bride pretrib, and she becomes the wife in heaven, with the marriage supper in heaven, as Jesus told the disciples at the last supper.

That is 5 or 8 dynamics totally missing in the doctrine of postribbers I talk to.

Jesus prophesied a wedding /supper in heaven at the last supper and illustrated it in the virgin parable of mat 25.
So - you are saying...

1st 'coming' (pre-trib):

dead in Christ shall rise first
alive and remain shall be caught up
some taken and some left
Jesus shall sit upon the throne of His glory and judge all nations - "sheep and goats"

2nd 'coming' (mid-trib? post-trib?):

[only] jews "reaped" - "for the harvest of the earth is ripe"
[who?] "gathered" - "the vine of the earth" - [cast into] "the great winepress of the wrath of God"
"blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles"

3rd 'coming' (when?):

"in righteousness he doth judge and make war" - "the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God" [again???]
"the great supper of the great God"

:( 😞 SMH

~

Every verse listed in the table on this web page is talking about the very same exact [overall] 'event' - which is the Second Coming of Christ:


At that time, everything you read about in the Bible concerning Jesus "coming back" will occur in its proper order - including resurrection/rapture, the 144 thousand, and the 'Wrath of God'.

There is only one 'coming' of Christ (still yet to occur) - not two or more.

There is only one 'Wrath of God' (still yet to occur) - not two or more.

The very same 'Wrath of God' is referred to or mentioned in Revelation chapters 14, 15, 16, and 19.
 
Just curious. I used to be pre-trib until I studied Scriptures at a deeper level. It's obvious to me that all the Scriptures on the rapture and God's Wrath topic support a pre-wrath rapture, because 1) Jesus promises us in many Scriptures that we are saved from His wrath to come (John 3:36, Romans 5:9, Ephesians 2:1-10, Ephesians 5:6, 1 Thes 1:10, and many others), and 2) those who are witnessing the beginning of God's wrath say so in Rev 6:16-17.
Had the Israelites left Egypt before God poured out the ten plagues on Egypt? Were the Israelites subject to the plagues? If not, why do you think Christians need to leave earth before the seven plagues/vials are poured out?
 
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So - you are saying...

1st 'coming' (pre-trib):

dead in Christ shall rise first
alive and remain shall be caught up
some taken and some left
Jesus shall sit upon the throne of His glory and judge all nations - "sheep and goats"

2nd 'coming' (mid-trib? post-trib?):

[only] jews "reaped" - "for the harvest of the earth is ripe"
[who?] "gathered" - "the vine of the earth" - [cast into] "the great winepress of the wrath of God"
"blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles"

3rd 'coming' (when?):

"in righteousness he doth judge and make war" - "the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God" [again???]
"the great supper of the great God"

:( 😞 SMH

~

Every verse listed in the table on this web page is talking about the very same exact [overall] 'event' - which is the Second Coming of Christ:


At that time, everything you read about in the Bible concerning Jesus "coming back" will occur in its proper order - including resurrection/rapture, the 144 thousand, and the 'Wrath of God'.

There is only one 'coming' of Christ (still yet to occur) - not two or more.

There is only one 'Wrath of God' (still yet to occur) - not two or more.

The very same 'Wrath of God' is referred to or mentioned in Revelation chapters 14, 15, 16, and 19.
No.
3 separate events Vividly described.

You have to reframe it into one coming.
Jesus SITTING ON A CLOUD HARVESTING JEWS, is not Jesus sitting on a horse with millions of believers in a warrior setting.

100% impossible.
 
So - you are saying...

1st 'coming' (pre-trib):

dead in Christ shall rise first
alive and remain shall be caught up
some taken and some left
Jesus shall sit upon the throne of His glory and judge all nations - "sheep and goats"

2nd 'coming' (mid-trib? post-trib?):

[only] jews "reaped" - "for the harvest of the earth is ripe"
[who?] "gathered" - "the vine of the earth" - [cast into] "the great winepress of the wrath of God"
"blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles"

3rd 'coming' (when?):

"in righteousness he doth judge and make war" - "the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God" [again???]
"the great supper of the great God"

:( 😞 SMH

~

Every verse listed in the table on this web page is talking about the very same exact [overall] 'event' - which is the Second Coming of Christ:


At that time, everything you read about in the Bible concerning Jesus "coming back" will occur in its proper order - including resurrection/rapture, the 144 thousand, and the 'Wrath of God'.

There is only one 'coming' of Christ (still yet to occur) - not two or more.

There is only one 'Wrath of God' (still yet to occur) - not two or more.

The very same 'Wrath of God' is referred to or mentioned in Revelation chapters 14, 15, 16, and 19.
You're placing the resurrection in Rev 19, after the trib ,at the second coming correct?

THEN, you are simultaneously saying that the gathering mid trib ( prewrath) in Rev 14:14 , is before the dead in Christ.

1 thes 4 says the dead in Christ rise FIRST.
Your doctrine has them rising AFTER the prewrath gathering in Rev 14;14.

Yet another 100% impossibility.

The "1coming" ingredient is so easily debunked


Years of "study" by postribbers wasted.

The ENTIRE DOCTRINE of a postrib rapture, DEPENDS AND HINGES on one thing.
( that they have to have "one coming")

It is a doctrinal debacle. House of cards.

I don't know what they can do.

Pride will keep them floundering in a ruin, that they SAY is based on ancient dead men, with limited Revelation.
They claim that as their FOUNDATION.

PAINTED THEMSELVES into a doctrinal corner.
 
Revelation in graphic format.

CqGIR9x.jpg
 
No.
3 separate events Vividly described.

You have to reframe it into one coming.
Jesus SITTING ON A CLOUD HARVESTING JEWS, is not Jesus sitting on a horse with millions of believers in a warrior setting.

100% impossible.
If you will pay really close attention, you should notice that they are all vividly describing the same 1 overall 'event' - the Second Coming of Christ.

The 'reap' and the 'gather' of Revelation 14 depict the rapture and the 'Wrath of God'. After the resurrection/rapture, Jesus enters 'warrior' mode and "dishes out" the 'Wrath of God' upon the world. All within the overall 'event' that is the Second Coming of Christ.
 
You're placing the resurrection in Rev 19, after the trib ,at the second coming correct?

THEN, you are simultaneously saying that the gathering mid trib ( prewrath) in Rev 14:14 , is before the dead in Christ.

1 thes 4 says the dead in Christ rise FIRST.
Your doctrine has them rising AFTER the prewrath gathering in Rev 14;14.
I am saying that everything related to Jesus "coming back" will occur in its proper order within the overall 'event' that is the Second Coming of Christ.
 
Every verse listed in the table on this web page is talking about the very same exact [overall] 'event' - which is the Second Coming of Christ:


At that time, everything you read about in the Bible concerning Jesus "coming back" will occur in its proper order - including resurrection/rapture, the 144 thousand, and the 'Wrath of God'.

There is only one 'coming' of Christ (still yet to occur) - not two or more.

There is only one 'Wrath of God' (still yet to occur) - not two or more.

The very same 'Wrath of God' is referred to or mentioned in Revelation chapters 14, 15, 16, and 19.
Revelation is not a simple chronological order of events - there are 'overlaps' - a specific thing may be referred to in more than just one place - with all of those places talking about the same thing.
 
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Had the Israelites left Egypt before God poured out the ten plagues on Egypt? Were the Israelites subject to the plagues? If not, why do you think Christians need to leave earth before the seven plagues/vials are poured out?

IMO the 10 plagues correlate with the the 7 trumpet judgments, which believers will endure; the Israelites passing through the divided sea correlates with the resurrection and entering into new life; and the sea returning on Pharaoh and his army correlates with the 7 bowls of wrath.
 
If you will pay really close attention, you should notice that they are all vividly describing the same 1 overall 'event' - the Second Coming of Christ.

The 'reap' and the 'gather' of Revelation 14 depict the rapture and the 'Wrath of God'. After the resurrection/rapture, Jesus enters 'warrior' mode and "dishes out" the 'Wrath of God' upon the world. All within the overall 'event' that is the Second Coming of Christ.
Why twist what is plainly there.
It's not like we do not have the description of the 3 SEPARATE COMINGS.

You actually think a greyhound bus full of people is the exact same thing as a dump truck full of dirt with one driver????

You are basically saying " highway, tires, engine, windows...so anyone can see the vehicles are one and the same thing."

Rev 14:14
A solo Jesus SITTING ON A CLOUD HOLDING A SICKLE.

Rev 19
A warrior Jesus, sitting a horse, with millions of horses blackening the sky, with a sword
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Note that JESUS is on a horse in heaven, AND NEVER GETS OFF OF IT UNTIL AFTER THE BATTLE.

You are twisting the book of revelation.

Neither of those comings is the pretrib rapture of mat 24, mat 25, or 1thes 4.

No way you can honestly blenderize those verses together.

It is BEYOND OBVIOUS they are 3 separate comings.

Postribs can never pass off the "1 coming" to a student of the word.

Not even remotely possible
 
I am saying that everything related to Jesus "coming back" will occur in its proper order within the overall 'event' that is the Second Coming of Christ.
You never answered.
Rev 14:14 gathering is PREWRATH.
Rev 19 COMING is POSTWRATH.

How did that massive boo boo ever get any traction in the first place?????

I just shot down postribber doctrine with my little finger.

Ahem...the ENTIRE DEAL....in ashes.
 
What is plainly there is [only] one coming - not two or three or five or ten.


Nope - a proper determination of what is literal and what is allegorical/figurative/metaphorical/symbolic is required - and then - a proper interpretation of that...
Just pretend Jesus sitting on a cloud DURING THE TRIB, with no white horses is the exact same thing as Jesus on millions of horses blackening the sky , WHICH IS 3 OR SO YEARS AFTER REV 14:14 gatgering.
 
Just pretend Jesus sitting on a cloud DURING THE TRIB, with no white horses is the exact same thing as Jesus on millions of horses blackening the sky , WHICH IS 3 OR SO YEARS AFTER REV 14:14 gatgering.
Is that really what you believe will make the sky go dark as described in various verses in scripture - millions of horses?

"Jesus on millions of horses"

Will He be on each of them or all of them at once?

:rolleyes:
 
Nope - a proper determination of what is literal and what is allegorical/figurative/metaphorical/symbolic is required - and then - a proper interpretation of that...
John is seeing a portrayal of things - some of the details are literal and some are not.

You are taking every detail to be completely literal - which is not the case if you are going to interpret it properly.