Loss of salvation???
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Good and faithful servant is reserved for SOME believers at the Lord's bema seat(evaluation.)
Our "fate?"
Eph 2:6~~And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
John 5:24
“Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
1 Pet 1:23
for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable, but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.
John 10:28
and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
Rom 8:39
nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Have you been heeding or rejecting 1 John 1:9? His Spirit testifies that we ARE the children of God. We have eternal life. We will NEVER, NO NOT EVER come into condemnation.<<<<<<John 5:24. Use your Greek super powers on that one.
Not taught...?
For many the mechanics of 1 John 1:9 comes almost instinctively when a believer sins.
1 John 1:9 was written to show the believer what happens when they do admit they sinned.
Many admit to themselves that they sinned when they sin.
Understanding how God sees it helps to stabilize the growing believer and give direction.
That is why it needs to be taught.
Otherwise, they will sin and rebound like a ball bouncing around in a pinball machine.
They can't focus because they have no idea how many answers God has provided His Church.
Which answers, will not come from simply "sharing."
But, by means of praying and finding a qualified teacher, which are few and far in-between.
When all we know are weak and deficient teaching?
We learn to not expect very much, and never know why we are so frustrated and dulled inside.
To break up the boredom some resort to dogma wars.
Few find it.
Many think that what they got is all there is.
Let me rephrase that for you. You meant to say "in my opinion, your misunderstanding of scripture is most severe".
Let me remind you that personal opinions are like noses, everybody has their own opinion. I would take your comment seriously if it was based on something other than your private opinion.
I'm sure everyone here and and throughout the world, believes that their private interpretation. of scripture is correct.
That's OK, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. There are an estimated 49,000 Christian denominations around the world in 2026.
Each denomination approaches the scriptures, with the view that the scriptures are subject to their authority. In other words, they interpret the scriptures with a preconceived expectation of what the Bible should be saying.
The Church has always been divided over the various interpretations of scripture, and it will remain divided as long as Christians hold to radically different interpretations of the gospel in particular.
The good news is, that our radically different interpretations are not a salvific issue. God is not going to judge anyone based on their ability to interpret scripture. Everyone will be judged according to what they have done.
The Lord Jesus said there are only two commandments that we need to keep to be saved, and everyone knows them so there's no need to paraphrase Him.
The sad part is, when some Christians judge others who hold to a different theology to theirs. Only those two commandments matter, they prove if one is a true believer or an outwardly religious hypocrite. So it doesn't matter if you hold to Reformed Theology, or Catholic, or Eastern Orthodox or any other Denomination.
I already know, we're not going to agree on many things, but that's to be expected.
OK, how about,
John 10:27-29 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.
Here the Lord Jesus confirms that His sheep (born again believers) her His voice and follow Him. This means that unbelievers, don't hear His voice and they don't follow Him.
He then confirm that He is the One who gives them eternal life, and they (shall never perish), would you agree that true believers are kept saved by the Lord Jesus Himself? and would you agree that nobody shall snatch them out of His hand, (they won't be deceived by the enemy to go back to serving Him and losing their salvation).
The above verses don't really leave any wiggle room, they show that God is the author and finisher of our salvation, and when He sets out to do something, it is as good as done because there's nobody who can stop Him from doing anything he choses to do.
I don't know of any verse that would support the idea that a true believer could be lost. If you know of any, then please share them.
It is a Spiritual gift.
Many teach here and there and know not.
Yes but Blanket statements only cover those who are in the bed.
Judging the unseen is subjective at best.
Personally Genez, I preferred the monkey. Why the change?
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Here is an excerpt from the actual citation. "Sinneth not (ουχ αμαρτανε). Linear present (linear μενων, keeps on abiding) active indicative of αμαρτανω, "does not keep on sinning." For μενω (abide) see 1John 2:6; John 15:4-10."
μενω= remains
SINNETH NOT, DOES NOT KEEP ON ABIDING in sin. Incidentally Does not keep on sinning would cover even occasionally.
Lets look as some of the other examples of verbs that that are like μενω and are Present/active/ indicative/ participle.
Out of the 741 times it is used that I could find. Most of the instances that one will see are instances of a state action one is in presently at a given time.
Like in Matt 1:19 where Joseph was not WILLING to to expose Mary publicly. Here is the verse. "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily."
Or like Matthew SAYING what Jesus said in the following from Matt 25:45. It was his state of action at a present time. He said, "Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me."
Or Jesus SLEEPING in Mark 4:38. Or the one who betrays Jesus being described as one eating with Him during the last supper in Mark 14:18.
These actions are in the present continuous tense. This tense is used to indicate actions that are currently taking place or ongoing.
With that said it is safe to say the actions above are not on going because they are describing an action that was being spoken in the present tense but has stopped. NOT STOPPED AND RESTARTED AND STOPPED AND RESTARTED AGAIN. STOPPED, as in the action was ongoing at that present time in history and is no more.
1John 3:6 is not an action that is being described in the present but has stopped. The not Abiding in sin is being stated as an action that is ongoing state of being.
Let us look at some other examples.
In John 3:16 Jesus says that the one who BELIEVES in Him will not perish but have everlasting life. THIS STATE OF ACTION OF BELIEVING IS SOMETHING THAT IS ONGOING. Not something that is being described in the present tense and has stopped. But on going state of believing.
And in John 12:44 where Jesus says, he that BELIEVETH into me believeth not into me but into Him that sent me. And vers 45 is another example. Where He says, he that SEETH me seeth Him that sent me.
John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
John 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
And in where Jesus says, he that RECEIVETH whomsoever I send, receiveth Him who sent me. This ongoing also.
John 13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
And here is a couple more from the very chapter in which we speak. This should solidify what is being shared with you.
There it says 1John 3:3 he that HAS this hope purifieth himself even as He, Jesus is pure. HAS, as in ongoing HOPE.
And in verse 3:4 where it says He that COMMITTETH sin transgresseth also the Law.
And in verse 3:7 where it says, he DOETH righteousness is righteous even as He, Jesus is righteous after saying he that ABIDETH IN Him sinneth not. Was Jesus sinning ocassionally?
1John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
I would have loved to have sit with Robertson. Maybe I will be blessed and Wallace will give me his ear here in the future.
The usual. Then I hit you back with the usual. And the merry-go-round goes around again.
There's more to the Faith of Jesus Christ than this denominational madness.
BTW, I'm fully aware that the 'Greek super-powers' are not the entire answer. They takes us quite a ways but there's more to this. I learned this in advanced Greek when we had pulled a section of Scripture apart to the letter & put it back together in a format where we knew every word and the grammatical structure of every clause, and could follow the contextual argument without any question among us. I noticed how everyone was feeling pretty satisfied with themselves, but I still had a question - so, I took part of our work and asked everyone what one clause in particular meant - not what it said, but what it meant. Not an answer from anyone in the room.
Please don't think this merry-go-round adventure impresses some of us here. We should all be asking one another the tough questions. Maybe the Spirit who desires a unified mind would begin to help us beyond the denominational child-phase we're in corporately.
Genez, you're projecting yourself onto others. I can guaranty you some have no clue what to do about sin. The confessional booth didn't come to such prominence because believers knew instinctively what to do. I've had conversations with some who've had not a clue what to do. Some are those who don't go sit in the box because they're told 'we don't like the Catholics' just feel bad and question their faith.
There was a time when I was facing many believers who had never been given the doctrinal input some of us received. They would prance around like they were quite knowledgeable because of the popular denominational church they went to and the popular pastor they had. The more I interacted with them and listened to them and became aware of how worldly they still were and how messed up was their thinking and their lives and how they did not understand some of the basic protocols of the Faith, the more I came to see that it seemed like everyone was under discipline but had no clue that they were.
The textual instruction is not just what happens, but includes the confessing - or maybe the 'acknowledging as in a courtroom' according to some teachings.
I've read some of your posts speaking in the realm of psychological assessment. Seriously, do you think you've got the psychology of everyone figured out and the ability of every carnal believer figured out that they know how to function in the new spiritual realm they have entered? Ever considered the concept of discipleship that's been turned into listening to guitars?
I very much appreciate the distinction you made between knowing what a text "says" and what it "means." Bible students learn to ask both questions, "What does it say" -- spelling, grammar, etc and what does it mean? -- context, background, etc.
Well said in my opinion.
I think a more relevant question is how do you define "sin", such an antiquated and offensive word to most modern ears. On one hand, sin is categorized into the seven deadly ones - pride, envy, wrath, sloth, greed, gluttony and lust, they are embedded in our human nature; on the other, they're immoral and/or harmful behaviors.
Search for "sin" in an English Bible. I did in the NKJ version. It returned Gen4:7 as the first reference.
The Theological Workbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) can be an interesting read. Here are a few excerpts from a fairly lengthy explanation of the Hebrew word used in Gen4:7 (I'm fixing some of the font issues that don't copy and paste well, by just writing a simple spelling without the markings):
(638e) חַטָּאת hata (sin, sin offering).
The root occurs about 580 times in the Old Testament and is thus its principle word for sin. The basic meaning of the root is to miss a mark or a way. It is used two or three times in Ugaritic to mean "sin" (UT 19:no. 952, Ais WUS 1019).
The verbal forms occur in enough secular contexts to provide a basic picture of the word's meaning. In Jud 20:16 the left-handed slingers of Benjamin are said to have the skill to throw stones at targets and "not miss." In a different context, Prov 19:2 speaks of a man in a hurry who "misses his way" (RSV, NEB, KJV has "sinneth"). A similar idea of not finding a goal appears in Prov 8:36; the concept of failure is implied.
Later in the write-up:
In the many instances in which the verb occurs in the Qal stem the object is either God or his laws, or else the verb is intransive. In so acting, man is missing the goal or standard God has for him, is failing to observe the requirements of holy living, or falls short of spiritual wholeness. The participle seems to designate the sinner in Prov 13:22; Isa 65:20 and all-instances in Eccl. But in Isa 1:4 it designates the quality of being less than acceptable to God.
Thus like other words related to the notion of "sin" it assumes an absolute standard or law. But, whereas pesha signifies a "revolt against the standard," and awâ means either "to deviate from the standard" or "to twist the standard," hata means "to miss, to fall short of the standard. The Greek word anomia "sin," consists of the privative prefix with the word for "law," thus "without law." Therefore judgment is implied, for the law in fact is binding even if the sinner thinks himself to be "without law."
1 John 1:9 makes you aware of what you are doing about sin.
Yet, many sin and realize they have sinned.
They keep bouncing in and out being totally unstable.
Learning 1 John 1:9 stabilizes the believer and keeps him with the grace needed to forge forward with an understanding of how easy God makes it for us to continue to grow spiritually.
Without understanding 1 John 1:9?
If we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us
our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
That person's guilt that will follow the confession will snatch them right back out of the filling of the Spirit, making them unstable because they are trapped in being chronically double minded in their ignorance.
That's why having the truth will make us free!
I think that's what I said - it explains in a conditional clause what we're to be doing.
The point was that many are not aware.
In your sign-off here you then take us to Jesus in John8:
- If it does, how does John8:29 apply to us - Jesus says the Father did not leave Him alone because Jesus is always doing what pleases God?
- In John8:31-32 in a very abused verse that the world uses, knowing the truth that will set us free is tied to whether or not (3rd-class condition "IF") we are remaining in His Word and thereby truly being His disciples.
- So, He's the one who is teaching how to be like Him - always doing what pleases God and God not leaving Him alone.
Yet many are not being taught this?
And then, I just read this morning a bunch of posts by a Greek Orthodox guy explaining their orthodoxy. They use John20:23 among other verses to say sins need to be confessed to a priest and if Protestants are not doing this, among not doing other things Orthodox, if Protestants are being saved, it's because of some mysterious grace and mercy of God for their not knowing the truth.
They simply tie John20:23 to 1John1:9 (another 3rd-class IF) and we thus have If we confess our sins to a priest...
Bottom line - many are not taught - many are taught one thing vs. another - who's remaining in His Word as His true disciples dong what He says > knowing the truth > being set free by the truth He teaches?
What a mess...
Ok, we may be "getting somewhere", so, an example and two tough questions?:
"For By Grace Through faith Are ye Saved Through faith; and That not of
yourselves: It Is The Gift Of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
(Ephesians 2:8-9 AV)
1) What does this "text say"?2) What does this "text mean"?
3) If it doesn't mean what it says, a six year old my rightly ask: "If God Did Not Mean
What He Said, Then Why Didn't I He Say 'What He Meant'", Correct?
---------------------------And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:
The Bible: The BIG Picture
Amen.
What a mess...
Yes, it is.
Best advice?
Stick with your right pastor God gives you...
... and let the driftwood keep on moving down the mainstream thinking.
We need to work out OUR OWN salvation in fear and trembling as needed.
grace and peace
'Right pastor' is mostly an RBT doctrine, so at some point along the path, rethinking it is not unbiblical. It sounds like you've done that to some degree as I understand you.
I was hacken on ya a bit.
Really though, do a thorough study on John 5:24. It is no nonsense, clear and even a child could understand the translation and clear implications of the verse.......milk. We cannot let the milk sour and then go into the meat.