If they could, were they truly saved, or like the ones who left at one point and were called pretenders? The preponderance of teaching in Scripture says to work out your own salvation. I have done so, have you?
Loss of salvation???
- Thread starter gratefuloneson
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Surely do.
Doesn't include doctrinal stances and how they were developed though, does it.
Asserting that others are stupid because they disagree with you seems to take this out of privacy mode.
I'm actually defending what I see in Scripture that you cannot refute and the above is your only retort, which is no real retort worth consideration.
Emojis are limiting.
I encourage anyone to push back against OSAS and ultimately would like to see both sides be able to discuss the topic and any topic Scripturally and not from inculcated systematic theology.
The other person you called legalistic who emojied that post was trying to get you and others to explain things like conditional clauses, which you can't do either. Some just have a more limited willingness to put up with your tactics than I do.
I still have some hope for your growth even though those who run from Scripture into ad hominem tactics normally don't come out of it.
Care to get back into Scripture you haven't explained yet? Any more false analogies, category errors and circular reasoning you'd like to put forth to erroneously push against the Greek perfect tense?
I applaud your dedication to study and parsing the original languages, but education doesn’t guarantee salvation to a seminarian to any greater degree than a humble child. Jesus warned those that tried to brush children away from His midst that unless they too displayed their unadulterated faith, they were in trouble. Look, I get your urge to seek answers to every question and doubt. We should all do the same, but the sooner we make peace with God, the more time we can experience having the peace of God here on earth, and share it with those in our sphere of influence. Have you found it?
I'm prepared to discuss words, verb tenses, conditional statements, grammar, etc., and spread out to close and wide context apart from simple proof-texting methods, etc...
If someone wants to stand on overall context, my bet may be that they will try to use that as a presupposition to unwind some grammar. We all have the tendency. A good part part of my 70+ years has been applied to learning how to spot this and do my best to recognize it in myself and not let it rule what the Word says.
I liked your stand on the foundation statement as long as it's a continual stand until the end of our breaths here. It's kind of a 'the more I know, the more I know I don't know' mentality that IMO we come to over the lengthier time periods in the Faith.
Don't know where you get this. Sounds like more rhetoric to diver from Scripture again.
Why are so many concerned about tomorrow, when it’s only today that counts? Today is the day of our salvation!
Looks to me at this time like it could be either.
Are you done?
I'm not and don't expect to be done until my last breath.
Maybe I'll receive the grace to be able to say like Paul that I've finished the race, but I don't know at what point Paul came to that realization and knew clearly that his departure was very near. His circumstances were quite different than mine are at this time.
BTW, I don't like that 'work out' translation - the word means to accomplish by work.
Yes.
This is a forum that brings about debate - both good and mostly bad.
I'm here and I see a lot of abuse of Scripture, so I get involved. It doesn't take my peace in Christ in Spirit (Phil4:11b) although I'm sure I'm not where Paul was when he said that.
There are other Scriptures that give different perspectives for dealing with children at different times in different ways and I get the sense that you've been dealt with in your childishness as I have over time. I also get the sense that you may know that there is spiritual infancy and there is a stage where there should not be immaturity. IOW, there are always complexities and the digital arena which is a relatively new phenomena is not like being face-to-face where some restraints are better practiced.
That's part of what I'm attempting to draw out of the language and show. It truly is more of a today while there is today type of continual faith. But the word 'continual' is important and is in the verb tenses as well as in commanded words like abiding and enduring - IOW in the definition of Faith.
This is not a forum designed for people with your gift to exegete.
I have seen forums that are.
I have seen that exegesis is not a simple process as you pretend it to be.
I find it pretentious of you to present it as such.
Repeat and already responded to.
Sounds like you want me to leave so you can assert your 'maturity' over the 'stupid'.
Who's pretending exegesis is easy? Like anything though, it does become easier over time.
But I try to always remain prepared to learn something new from someone and I do try to keep up on at least some of the latest scholarship.
Remember what I said to you recently about eating crow?
As I recall, you're old enough to have also grown up in the era of westerns - I was influenced as a kid by the concept that there's always a faster gun. Also, there's always the Ultimate Genius to prove us all dumb.
No interest in Scripture, huh?
@TruthDefender knows Lord Jesus and what He taught more than you ever will.
You have a lot to learn from that member.
You're driving on a highway, peacefully, doing about 75 an hour.
The highway comes to a sudden end.
Beyond the edge is a very deep ravine.
Would you like to be advised of this?
Would you like to be warned?
You are not lining up with others whom I have known who also exegete.
You are siding with the wrong people. That's the problem I have with you.
OK so you do believe then that a person can reject the Lord after having been born again and go back to living in open sin and rebellion against the Lord and still be saved.
Hate to break it to ya man, but that's false doctrine and is only taught be those who do not accept the whole counsel of God.
Romans 11:21,22
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if
thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus
Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
Hebrews 3:12
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
*A person cannot depart from something they were never a part of to begin with
*Notice that this is speaking to "brethren" so this is a warning from the Lord to Christians.
1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing
spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron
*A person cannot depart from the faith is they were never in the faith begin with
2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that
Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Galatians 2:17
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister
of sin? God forbid.
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of
sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Romans 2:7-11
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.
James 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
*These are all scripture references the false teachers refuse to believe and refuse to teach on because it doesn't fit in with their demonic so called "once saved always saved" feel good greasy grace doctrine.
They have to tickle people's ears because they have to raise money to pay their church mortgage payments and cover all the salaries of their staff so they too can cover their mortgage payments
If they actually believed the entire Word of God and taught the whole counsel of the Lord then most of their people would quit attending their church and the money would dry up. So the false teachers have a vested interest in teaching the ear tickling, sin friendly, greasy grace message that they espouse
Saved from what?
Saved from evil in this world? No.
Saved from unhappiness? No.
King Saul sought out the witch of Endor, and ended dying a horrible death in battle.
But, after he died he did not end up going to hell.
For the prophet Samuel told King Saul that he was to end up being with him after being killed.
The Prophet Samuel was obviously saved.
1 Samuel 28:19
The Lord will deliver both Israel and you into the hands of the Philistines,
and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also give
the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.”
.