Adventists, Ellen G. White, failed prophecies and scripture
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Thank you for your understanding, brother.Hey really no problem. I really am just trying to educate people about Ellen White. I doubt most people practice these beliefs with the vigor of some here. There are extremes in plenty of 'mainstream' Protestant churches some of which I have personally encountered but let's at least stick with the Biblical version of the gospel and not filter it through 2000 + visions etc and then hang off every word of that person.
Appreciate you coming back and posting.
Looking at what I can find on Miller, he didn't teach Baptist distinctives. I guess the same is true of some of the local Baptist churches in my area, having listened to some.
7th Day Adventists built upon Millers following. From what I recall there were spin off groups like the one that settled on the name Jehovah's Witnesses.
From a Brave search ....
"
William Miller, an American Baptist preacher and farmer, initiated the Adventist movement in the 1830s by predicting the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, initially setting the date for March 1843, later revised to October 22, 1844. When Christ did not return, the event became known as the Great Disappointment, causing the collapse of most of Miller’s following. However, several splinter groups emerged from the movement, including the Seventh-day Adventists and the Bible Students, the latter of which evolved into the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Charles Taze Russell, the founder of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, was influenced by the Millerite movement. At age 20, he became interested in the Adventist ideas promoted by William Miller and later engaged with the writings of Nelson H. Barbour, a Millerite leader who claimed Christ had returned invisibly in 1874. Russell adopted and expanded upon these concepts, publishing The Millennial Dawn and founding the Zion's Watch Tower magazine in 1879. His group eventually became the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, which later adopted the name Jehovah’s Witnesses in 1931. "
EGW backed Dr H Kellogg when he was doing God's will.
We all have choice. David followed God for years and failed. Many started out zealous for God but found themselves doing evil latter in life.
Dr Kellogg was removed from the church when he taught wrong.
We all have the ability to go down the wrong path
Please explain..
Mat 7:15-17
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
The fruits of EGW were in line with the bible in every way.
I'm not claiming that she was perfect or without sin but the life and writings of EGW were a constant witness for Christ.
So you agree with her that torturing children was God’s will. WOW
I'll just say
The fact that people are spending so much time attacking the SDA church tells me that it is either the remnant of God with truth that the devil really hates or that it is false.
I know where I stand
Test all to the word of God.
The fact that people are spending so much time attacking the SDA church tells me that it is either the remnant of God with truth that the devil really hates or that it is false.
I know where I stand
Test all to the word of God.
You know the “everyone is persecuting me” is the same tactics that all cults use. Play the victim card.
Fact is Kellogg torured children. Ellen was completely aware of this fact and still not only supported him but claimed that God appointed him to do it. He was not excommunicated until he show his pantheistic views. So torturing children was not enough to kick him out. Ellen white and Kellogg were both completely sick individuals controlled by satan himself. And yes I used the word “were” and not is. I know how yall like to talk about her in the present tense like she is still around but she’s not. She died.
Well, it looks like SDA came out out of William Miller, and Watch Tower came out of Nelson Barbour, after the Millerite movement was broken up. Still different beginnings and different branches. JW is second hand Millerite, Ellen White was part of the Millerite movement. It's like the Millerite movement was proven false years later, than Russel was interested. Where as Ellen White had visions starting at the point, when the Millerite was abadoned.
Nelson H. Barbour, a Millerite leader who claimed Christ had returned invisibly in 1874. SDA came in 1863. I still say, totally different.
"Adventists in the Geneseo area met in Springwater to await the second coming in 1843. Their disappointment was profound, and Barbour suffered a crisis of faith. He later wrote: "We held together until the autumn of 1844. Then, as if a raft floating in deep water should suddenly disappear from under its living burden, so our platform went from under us, and we made for shore in every direction; but our unity was gone, and, like drowning men, we caught at straws."" wiki Barbour abadoned the millerite movement in 1844. So, to say he was still a Millerite in 1874 would be a stretch.
Now, Ellen White was part of the Millerite do to her family...
"In 1840, at age 12, her family became involved with the Millerite movement. As she attended William Miller's lectures, she felt guilty for her sins and was filled with terror about being eternally lost. She describes herself as spending nights in tears and prayer and being in this condition for several months. On June 26, 1842, she was baptized by John Hobart in Casco Bay in Portland, Maine, and eagerly awaited Jesus to come again. In her later years, she referred to this as the happiest time of her life. Her family's involvement with Millerism caused them to be disfellowshipped by the local Methodist church."
"From 1844 to 1863 White allegedly experienced between 100 and 200 visions, typically in public places and meeting halls. She experienced her first vision soon after the Millerite Great Disappointment of 1844. She said she had one that led to the writing of The Great Controversy at an Ohio funeral service held on a Sunday afternoon in March 1858, in the Lovett's Grove (now Bowling Green, Ohio) public school. This was an alleged vision of the ages-long conflict between Christ and his angels and Satan and his angels." wiki
Barbour became an electrician, than years later Russel was interested in his writings.
"Barbour pursued a medical career, becoming a medical electrician—a therapist who treated disease through the application of electric current, which was seen as a valid therapy at the time." wiki
I still say, totally different beginnings. Ellen White became a Millerite due to her parents involvement, Russel was interested in a Millerite's writings, years after the Millerite movement was abadoned. That to me, if far more accurate.
O.k., one last bit. Charles Taze Russel became interested in the Millerite movement in...........1972. That's like 28 years after the Millerite Movement was abadoned.
Charles Russel was born on......
| February 16, 1852 Allegheny, Pennsylvania, US |
Ellen White was 1st hand Millerite, who came out of the movement, where Charles Russel was not part of the millerite movement (outsider), who was never part of the Millerite movement, but was interested in a false prophet, who once was part of the Millerite movement. O.k., I think I broke this down enough, to show enough distance. It's like comparing Grandma with Grandson.
Charles Russel wasn't even born, when the Millerite movement abadoned. lol o.k.?
Anyways....lol
So, Baptist came from the Church of England, or Anglican, which broke off from Catholicism. So, all these churches broke off from Catholicism, if you go back far enough.
SDA Tree
Catholic
Church of England
Baptist (Millerite)
Methodist (Ellen White was raised Methodist) (Methodist came out of the Church of England)
Millerite (Family of Ellen White followed a Baptist Preacher William Miller)
SDA
Watch Tower Tree
Catholic
Church of England
Baptist (Charles Miller was a Baptist Preacher)
Methodist Episcopal (Charles Russel was brought up in)
Millerite
Charles Russel (Adventist)
J.W.
Watch Tower beginnings....
"About 1870, Russell and his father established a group with a number of acquaintances to undertake an analytical study of the Bible and the origins of Christian doctrine, creed, and tradition. The group, strongly influenced by the writings of Millerite Adventist ministers George Storrs and George Stetson, who were also frequent attendees, concluded that many of the primary doctrines of the established churches, including the Trinity, hellfire, and inherent immortality of the soul, were not substantiated by the scriptures.
Around January 1876, Russell received a copy of Nelson Barbour's Herald of the Morning in the mail. Barbour was an influential Adventist writer and publisher. Russell telegraphed Barbour to set up a meeting. Barbour and John Henry Paton visited in Allegheny in March 1876 at Russell's expense so that he could hear their arguments, and compare the conclusions that each side had made in their studies. Russell sponsored a speech by Barbour in St. George's Hall, Philadelphia in August 1876 and attended other lectures by Barbour.
Among the teachings Barbour introduced was the view that Christians who had died would be raised in April 1878. Russell, who had previously rejected prophetic chronology, was moved to devote his life to what he was convinced were now the last two years before the invisible, spiritual return of Christ. He sold his five clothing stores for approximately $300,000 (current value $9,070,000). With Russell's encouragement and financial backing, Barbour wrote an outline of their views in Three Worlds and the Harvest of This World, published in 1877" wiki
SDA Tree
Catholic
Church of England
Baptist (Millerite)
Methodist (Ellen White was raised Methodist) (Methodist came out of the Church of England)
Millerite (Family of Ellen White followed a Baptist Preacher William Miller)
SDA
Watch Tower Tree
Catholic
Church of England
Baptist (Charles Miller was a Baptist Preacher)
Methodist Episcopal (Charles Russel was brought up in)
Millerite
Charles Russel (Adventist)
J.W.
Watch Tower beginnings....
"About 1870, Russell and his father established a group with a number of acquaintances to undertake an analytical study of the Bible and the origins of Christian doctrine, creed, and tradition. The group, strongly influenced by the writings of Millerite Adventist ministers George Storrs and George Stetson, who were also frequent attendees, concluded that many of the primary doctrines of the established churches, including the Trinity, hellfire, and inherent immortality of the soul, were not substantiated by the scriptures.
Around January 1876, Russell received a copy of Nelson Barbour's Herald of the Morning in the mail. Barbour was an influential Adventist writer and publisher. Russell telegraphed Barbour to set up a meeting. Barbour and John Henry Paton visited in Allegheny in March 1876 at Russell's expense so that he could hear their arguments, and compare the conclusions that each side had made in their studies. Russell sponsored a speech by Barbour in St. George's Hall, Philadelphia in August 1876 and attended other lectures by Barbour.
Among the teachings Barbour introduced was the view that Christians who had died would be raised in April 1878. Russell, who had previously rejected prophetic chronology, was moved to devote his life to what he was convinced were now the last two years before the invisible, spiritual return of Christ. He sold his five clothing stores for approximately $300,000 (current value $9,070,000). With Russell's encouragement and financial backing, Barbour wrote an outline of their views in Three Worlds and the Harvest of This World, published in 1877" wiki
I'm not surprised. The traditional church has lost its way big time. There is not enough teaching of the fundamentals. Some places teach nothing. I don't call the spread of a false gospel a good thing. Islam is growing also. Christians should be resisting that evil.I think I was reading, the reason why SDA or Ellen White doesn't want their believers to have assurance of salvation, because White didn't want people to believe in once saved, always saved.
SDA are big on the law, because it's in the Bible. lol That would be my guess anyways, not really an authority, but appreciate the SDA church and it's teaching in the most part.
Personally, I'm leaning more and more on predestination, but that is for the other threads. I could never just strictly just believe in one denomination or one section of the faith's teachings, I personally see to many possibilities, or see truth in some parts, and concerns in other areas. I definitely like to hear people out, because that's how you learn I guess. Exceptions of course.
People who are against the SDA church, should probably look at their own church doctrine, that would be my recommendation. SDA church ain't perfect, but that have a lot of things going right in their favor, in my honest opinion. Just the fact they are leaders in world wide evangelism, should be enough to scare most Christians from critisizing the faith. Well, what has your church done? lol
Those anti-SDA Christians need to kick it on over drive, your failing in your mission. lol The SDA church is growing.
SDA
"The Seventh-day Adventist Church (SDA) has been recognized as one of the fastest-growing churches in the world. In 2023, the church reported a world membership of 22,785,195, with a net gain of 550,789 members. "
December 3, 2024 | Silver Spring, Maryland, United States | Adventist Mission
"The time it takes for a new Seventh-day Adventist Church to be established dropped below the three-hour mark. According to the General Conference Office of Archives, Statistics, and Research, a new Adventist church was added every 2.97 hours in 2023.
At that rate, a new church is being established approximately every three hours—or eight new churches every day. The last similar milestone was 23 years ago. In 2000 a new Adventist church was added every four hours—six churches a day."
New Adventist Churches Being Added Faster than Ever Before - Seventh-day Adventist Church - Inter-American Division
December 3, 2024 | Silver Spring, Maryland, United States | Adventist Mission The time it takes for a new Seventh-day Adventist Church to be established dropped below the three-hour mark....interamerica.org
Doctrine saves no one. We are also in the time when "…2Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and encourage with every form of patient instruction." This is not taking place as it needs to.
"3For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. 4So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.…" This is happening now as what calls itself "church" becomes more and more like the world. (2 Timothy 4.)
Great question. Look, I don't really know, but here is a possible explanation.
"This is troubling at first and then tremendously comforting. It’s troubling because it raises the question why the heavenly holy place would need to be cleansed You see verse 23 says that the copies of heaven must be cleansed with the blood of animals, but “the heavenly things themselves [have to be cleansed] with better sacrifices.” Why is that? Is heaven defiled? Is there sin in heaven? Some have suggested that it’s because Satan has been there. Others have suggested that it’s because there are “spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places” (Ephesians 6:12)."
Why does the heavenly holy place need to be cleansed?
Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ has entered, not into h…
bible-daily.org
Ephiesians 6:12
12For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Hebrews 9
23Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
"The Bible presents a profound teaching on the sanctuary and its services, both earthly and heavenly. One of the central questions believers often ask is: Why does the heavenly temple need to be cleansed? At first glance, it might seem strange to think of heaven needing cleansing, because the Bible teaches that heaven is God’s perfect dwelling place. However, Scripture makes it clear that there is a work of cleansing to be done, not because heaven itself is defiled with physical impurity, but because the record of sin must be dealt with in God’s plan of salvation. This teaching ties together the Old Testament sanctuary, the priestly ministry of Jesus Christ, and the final judgment that leads to the eradication of sin."
Why does the heavenly temple need to be cleansed? - BibleAsk
The heavenly temple needs cleansing to address the record of sin, not due to impurity but as part of God's salvation plan.
bibleask.org
2) THE CLEANSING OF THE HEAVENLY SANCTUARY
"Just as the earthly sanctuary needed to be cleansed from the sins of the repentant people of Israel, so was it necessary for the heavenly sanctuary to be also cleansed from the sins of God's people which have been transferred therein through their penitent prayers to the Father through Jesus. In the book of Daniel, we read about the antitype of the yearly service of atonement of ancient Israel. This antitype (which is the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary) is captured within Daniel's vision of the 2,300 years prophecy. From Daniel 8:14, we read the specific words: "Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed"."The Cleansing of the Heavenly Sanctuary | White Throne Ministries
Just as the earthly sanctuary needed to be cleansed from the sins of the repentant people of Israel, so was it necessary for the heavenly sanctuary to be also cleansed from the sins of God's people which have been transferred therein through their penitent prayers to the Father through Jesus
whitethroneministries.org
O.k., it looks like there is some merit to this. If that is the case, I don't have much in terms of any counter points. I would be curious to what a SDA would say, since I got nothing in defense.
Here is a site that sorta points out some more concerns...
Embarrassing Failed Prophecies
Failed prophecies made by SDA Prophet Ellen G. White about the return of Christ
www.nonegw.org
Don't forget false prophecies also in those non-denominational churches. This pre-tribulation rapture phenomenon by Darby is Christian fiction.
I don't see how the SDA church is teaching a false gospel as far as salvation. Now if Ellen White has given false prophecy about the Lord's return is true, that should be noted, but should that take away from the SDA's church ministry as whole? I don't think so, but to each their I suppose.
Desmond Doss was a war here and helped saved many lives, but because Ellen White possibly gave false prophecy, does Desmond Doss actions in war are no longer valid? Let's be reasonable here is all I'm trying to get at.
This is false because the movement was headed not by EGW but John Miller a Baptist minister. At the time EGW was a Methodist and 17 years old. She was studying the prophecy of the 2300 days in Daniel with Miller along with an estimated 50-100K people from many churches and denominations. The SDA church did not even form until 1863 some 20 years later
Another false accusation. This is backward. In June 1851 she explicitly warned against tying the message to time and said people were wrong to make their calculations bend to “this next fall.” The primary source says: “the message must never be hung on time,” and “some were making everything bend to the time of this next fall … I saw that this was wrong.” So the documentary evidence shows her rebuking an autumn 1851 expectation, not predicting it.
The Ellen G. White Letters and Manuscripts: Volume 1
Anotated letters of Ellen G. White 1844-1859text.egwwritings.org
In Present Truth (September 1, 1849), she wrote: “What we have seen and heard of the pestilence is but the beginning … Soon the dead and dying will be all around us.” But the passage continues into broad end-time judgment language: “Then the slain of the Lord will be from one end of the earth to the other.” That makes it read more like an apocalyptic warning than a dated prediction that the then-current cholera wave would keep escalating in the immediate short term.
This charge is overstated. The statement exists, but the wording is heavily conditional: England was “studying whether” to go to war, “if she should commence war abroad,” and “if England thinks it will pay.” The White Estate argument that the final “when England does declare war” functions in context like “if England does” is interpretive, but the bigger point is still true: this was not phrased as a clean unconditional prediction that England definitely would attack
That is misleadingly phrased. Ellen White absolutely denounced slavery, and one cited line says some political leaders were “Southern sympathizers” who “would preserve slavery as it is.” That reads as a judgment about their intentions and politics, not a prophecy that the Civil War would end with slavery preserved. Separately, in 1895 she did make a different statement: “Slavery will again be revived in the Southern States; for the spirit of slavery still lives.” That later statement is real and is often defended by Adventists as referring to coercive oppression or labor conditions in the South, but it is not the same claim as “the Civil War will preserve slavery.”
There is no published Ellen White statement I found where she herself names Jupiter or Saturn as inhabited worlds.
Well, here is the response. So, I think people who are posting false claims, need to revalue their motives. If people who are against the SDA church, and make false claims, than isn't that a false witness?
I would say, make sure your know what your talking about, or you will leave people astray.
Thanks for this post Sabbathblessing.
I think this is the case. So far, it appears people just hate the SDA, because they promote Sabbath keeping. That shines the light on the false doctrine of Sunday Sabbath, which most churches have no defense for keeping. They do not want to admit it's false doctrine by the Catholic Church, so it appears they grasp at straws, slander, and hope something sticks.
Personally, we can all agree that the Sabbath is on the 7th Day, and not the first. If we can all agree on this point, we can agree that most churches are in error. Of course, we all have to admit the SDA is right on this point, which will make most cry. lol
Derby had scriptural backing for his stance. I do not believe that Derby claimed to be a prophet. I happen to agree with pre-trib rapture, from my understanding of scripture. Ellen G White had visions that she claimed to be from God. If they were not, she is a false prophet. If her "prophecies" were not such an integral part of SDA doctrine, it would not be such an issue. But they accept all that she said as being from God. When someone tries to tell me that I have to be sinless in order to enter the City of God, I reject that as patently false.
There are some doctrines that are fundamental to salvation. There are many that are not. I attend (shows you how desperate I am) an Anglican church. There is much that I do not agree with. But the pastor preaches truth and he is alive in Christ. I wish I could say the same for any other fellowships near me.
Paul wrote a great deal that condemns the legalism promoted by SDA. He had the same problem, those obsessed with the law demanding that Gentiles be made subject to the law that was never for them.
I do not class SDA in the same degree of heresy as say, Jehovah's Witnesses. JW's are easy to refute. SDA is closer, which in some ways makes it harder. But they are really good at collecting scripture to support their beliefs while overlooking everything that proves them to be wrong.
So far, I think the criticism of the SDA church are up in smoke. It seems like people are looking for anything negative on the net, and just copy and paste. Now if there are real errors by Ellen White, than those should be posted, and say, here is the undeniable proof, but so far it seems they are misunderstood, or quoted out of context. I'm totally open for discussion, but if people keep posting half truths, eventually I'm gonna just pass this off as non-sense.
So, everyone is entitled to make points, but lets make sure, we are know what we are posting, or at least make claims, like this is possibly true.
The pre-trib rapture has been discussed at nausem, so I'm not gonna beat this one to death, but we once again disagree. The pre-trib rapture is a farce and will let my posts in other threads sit as proof.
One claim I will continue to make, SDA have a great testimony, and their works can not be denied. I'm still open for discussion on Ellen White's status as a prophet, but currently undecided. She appears to be ahead of her time on many occasions, she can't nearly be as bad, as many think. Look at the fruits of the SDA church?!?! They have done great works in the LORD. This can't be denied...