Adventists, Ellen G. White, failed prophecies and scripture

[JayWalker]

This occurred around 1843, shortly before the 1844 "Great Disappointment".

Was that when they all became depressed or something?

People who are anti Seventh Day Adventist, don't read the Bible.

Oh they read the Bible but just not all of it and the parts they do read got twisted long time ago and new member are required to accept the twisted part of face the left foot of fellowship right out the door of their social club ya know.

No hate for the Baptist preacher though right, he gets a pass?!?! lol

No the baptists teach that false OSAS stuff and we should not hate them. They just need deliverance.

but Doug is dynamite

Yeah he certainly blows things up with his scripture twisting that's for sure.

In 1856, she claimed an angel told her that people in that room would be alive when Jesus returned. It doesn't matter that she didn't give a day or hour, she gave a lifespan. Every person in that room is now dead. According to Deuteronomy 18:22, if a prophet says something in the name of the Lord and it doesn't happen, that person is a false prophet. If I tell you "you will live to see the next Super Bowl," I haven't set a date, but if you die before then, I’m still a liar.

And all the SDA people said "Ouch!"

The Catholic Church was the first to bind Gentiles to the ten commandments.

Wait. You mean it's been OK to lie, steal, take God's Name in vain, commit adultery, etc etc and God's cool with it?

Who knew?

I will leave this bit to you, Catholic Church changed the Sabbath

No mention or teaching in New Testament scriptures on Saturday being the sabbath

The Lord and His Apostles never instructed Christians to observe Saturday sabbath at all.

This is not a matter of debate, it's fact.

Have you played the victim card all your life or is it something that progressed with age?

I've heard the SDA folks say that before, they'll claim if you don't agree with their doctrine than you are persecuting them

My brain isn't grasping this doctrine for some reason.

That's because the Holy Spirit is not leading you to fall for the SDA stuff which is a blessing.

I might have to peak at those Ellen White books, just a few chapters

Why not read some literature from the masons and from the church of satan while you are at it?

No, the thing to do is stick with the teachings of the Lord and read His Word.

Why read what others thought they thought the Lord said when you can go direct to the Source and read God's Word.

Once you start playing around with false doctrine you open yourself up to deception which is what people do when they are being led by spirits that are not of the Lord Jesus

 

[Inquisitor]

All the deciples of Jesus thought that Jesus would set up His kingdom but they were disappointed.

The event was misunderstood

In 1844 the event was misunderstood.

They thought The sanctuary was the Earth.
But latter realized that the sanctuary is in Heaven.

It was a disappointment but they came to understand alot because of the Bible study they did.

Heb 8:1-2
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

All of the history about 1844 and the disappointment was before the 7th Day Adventist church was formed.
It was formed by people from that time, from many denominations. But the Adventist church did not exist when the disappointment happened.

Plus....be careful how critical you are.
The 1843/1844 disappointment was prophesied by God.

REV 10:9-11

I was talking about Ellen Harmon and how she joined the William Miller organization.

The prophecy of William Miller was misunderstood?

Not according to William Miller; William was prophet that made the call on the basis of one verse.

He based that prophecy on one verse; well that's not a good way to read the Bible is it.

Along comes Ellen who reinterprets a one verse false prophecy into an Investigative Judgement.

Now that's very creative by Ellen and people believed it which is even more remarkable.

Ellen was the prophetic core of the future SDA.

Ellen was deceived.

 

[Inquisitor]

Wait. You mean it's been OK to lie, steal, take God's Name in vain, commit adultery, etc etc and God's cool with it?

Gentiles are not under the law.

Of course it's wrong to break the law but we are under grace not the law.

You want His commandments then read the verses below.

1 John 3:23
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another,
just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know
by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Not the ten commandments but His commandments.

Love fulfills the entire law and the prophets.

Is this difficult to understand?

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

That's awesome. I watched all the videos and they honestly didn't hit home. I'm struggling to find out what the importance of this topic is to be honest. I guess we can believe Jesus is in Heaven doing Heavenly things, what those things are, are obviously important. My brain isn't grasping this doctrine for some reason. I get pieces of it, but maybe the Lord is keeping this away from my understanding. I don't know. lol Sorry, don't know what's going on this topic. lol

Actually just finished that Sabbath debate, and the guy debating Doug, actually said, it's o.k. that Jesus sins, because HE is Lord of the Sabbath. I was like ummmm. Jaw drop moment. Totally clueless! Look at the demeanors and look at what is being said.

SDA adventist Christians are like goody two shoes stereo type. They don't swear, they don't drink, don't smoke, and etc. lol Basically harmless people who are just trying to be a good witness. AND SDA generally get nothing, but grief for being role models in the faith. lol It's almost laughable.

A lot of them don't eat meat either.
What about that?

I might have to peak at those Ellen White books, just a few chapters like you guys were talking about, so I can at least make my own mind up. I don't think I could ever be a true SDA, but I will most likely always be influenced by their ministry.

10 minutes from this former SDA pastor will save you a lot of time and big chunk of your life.

 

[TMS]

I was talking about Ellen Harmon and how she joined the William Miller organization.

The prophecy of William Miller was misunderstood?

Not according to William Miller; William was prophet that made the call on the basis of one verse.

He based that prophecy on one verse; well that's not a good way to read the Bible is it.

Along comes Ellen who reinterprets a one verse false prophecy into an Investigative Judgement.

Now that's very creative by Ellen and people believed it which is even more remarkable.

Ellen was the prophetic core of the future SDA.

Ellen was deceived.

You haven't studied this subject very well.

Lots of false statements.

You don't listen to me so go and look at the whole picture... not just the critical angle... study it properly and take off your filters.

When you only see things from one angle it can distort things.

Was it God's will that William Miller studied this subject? Did it have a positive effect at the time?

Did the sanctuary get cleansed at the end of the 2300 day prophesy. ???

 

[TMS]

A lot of them don't eat meat either.
What about that?

The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

The best diet for us is what God gave us at creation.
God knows what is best.

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

God created us as vegetarians.

The SDA church believes in looking after our physical body because our physical health affects our mental and Spiritual health.

Temperance is important.. Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

That's awesome. I watched all the videos and they honestly didn't hit home. I'm struggling to find out what the importance of this topic is to be honest. I guess we can believe Jesus is in Heaven doing Heavenly things, what those things are, are obviously important. My brain isn't grasping this doctrine for some reason. I get pieces of it, but maybe the Lord is keeping this away from my understanding. I don't know. lol Sorry, don't know what's going on this topic. lol

Which videos- the ones from Doug? There is something wrong with those videos there were like 8 minutes long. His sermons are at least 30-40 minutes so not sure why there didn't post the full videos.

Watch the ones from the Revelation Series with Pastor Rafferty and Myers- it will walk you though it. Its a long study, but its so good.

Actually just finished that Sabbath debate, and the guy debating Doug, actually said, it's o.k. that Jesus sins, because HE is Lord of the Sabbath. I was like ummmm. Jaw drop moment. Totally clueless! Look at the demeanors and look at what is being said.

This is a popular teaching- they would rather have Jesus sin than keep God's Sabbath. That should tell one everything about which power doesn't want us to keep God's Sabbath

SDA adventist Christians are like goody two shoes stereo type. They don't swear, they don't drink, don't smoke, and etc. lol Basically harmless people who are just trying to be a good witness. AND SDA generally get nothing, but grief for being role models in the faith. lol It's almost laughable.

Its history repeated. Look at Jesus Pilate deemed He has done nothing wrong- but the people (who claimed to be of God) were angry and didn't care- crucify Him! Its the same spirit....Rev12:17KJV

I might have to peak at those Ellen White books, just a few chapters like you guys were talking about, so I can at least make my own mind up. I don't think I could ever be a true SDA, but I will most likely always be influenced by their ministry.

Read Steps to Christ, Desire of Ages of Great Controversy- they are long Steps to Christ being the shortest.

God bless!

 

[SabbathBlessing]

The Investigative Judgement is one of the doctrines listed on the SDA website.

It is one of the most extreme doctrines listed on the SDA website, "belief 24".

It is not just suspect, Kinda, it is the antithesis of God's grace.

Gen. 3:8,9,11,13,24---“the voice of the LORD God” investigates Adam & Eve; “where”, “Who”, “hast”, “what”

Gen. 4:9-12---God investigates Cain about Abel; “where”Gen. 5:22-24;

Heb. 11:5---God investigates Enoch; “had this testimony, that he pleased God”

Gen. 6:3,5,12---God investigates the world; “saw…every imagination”, “looked upon”

Gen. 11:5-6---God comes down at the Tower of babel; “to see”

Gen. 18:20-21---God comes down to Sodom & Gomorrah; “see … know”

Exo. 16:4,28; Num. 15:32-36; 1 Cor. 10:1-12---God tests Israel about His commandments, the 7th day the Sabbath; “How long”, “what should be done”

Lev. 16:1-34, 23:26-32; Exo. 28:15,29-30---God investigates Israel, Day of Atonement; “breast plate of judgment”

1 Kin. 3:16-28---King Solomon (Type of Christ, Prince of peace) investigates from his throne over two women and a living & dead child; “judgment”

Ezr. 2:59,61-63; Neh. 7:61,63-65---In Ezra 2, after coming out of Babylon, the priests had to be investigated to make sure they were on the genealogical records

Job 1:8, 2:3---God & man (Job) are investigated; “Hast thou considered”

Eze. 8:1-18, 9:1-11---God investigates two groups inside the city

Dan. 7:9-10,13,22(b), 8:13-14,26, 12:1,12---The Investigative Judgment; “every one that shall be found written in the book”

Zec. 3:1-3---God investigates the high priest Joshua; “clothed”

Mal. 3:3,5---God searches the metals for impurities; refiner & purifier

Luk. 13:7---Jesus investigates for fruit; “I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none”

Mat. 18:21-35---The King investigates; “a certain king, which would take account of his servants”

Mat. 22:11---The King investigates; “the king came in to see the guests, he saw”

Mar. 11:13---Jesus investigates, “seeing … afar off”

Rom. 2:13-16---“In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”

2 Cor. 5:10---“we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ”

Heb. 9:27---“it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment”

1 Pet. 4:5---Investigating the dead; “give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead”

Jud. 1:15---In order, “To execute judgment upon all”, an investigation takes place first

Rev. 3:10, 17:12---“the hour (time) of temptation (testing)”; investigating the living

Rev. 3:14---“Laodicea” (Judgment of the people)

Rev. 11:1-2---Investigating the church; “measure the Temple (God’s people)”, “worship”

Rev. 14:6-13---“the hour of his judgment is come”

 

[Just_A__Follower]

The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

The best diet for us is what God gave us at creation.
God knows what is best.

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

God created us as vegetarians.

The SDA church believes in looking after our physical body because our physical health affects our mental and Spiritual health.

Temperance is important.. Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

If you want to get technical about Genesis, God didn't give us potatoes, beans, or grains at creation. In Genesis 1:29, He specifically gave "every herb bearing seed" and "every tree in which is the fruit." It wasn't until after the fall and the curse of the ground Gen 3:18 that He said, "thou shalt eat the herb of the field." If you’re trying to go back to the original diet, you need to stop eating almost everything in your pantry.

Also, the "Creation Diet" doesn't actually exist anymore. Every plant we eat today has been so genetically modified by thousands of years of human breeding that they are unrecognizable. A natural carrot was a tiny, bitter purple root; natural corn was a tiny grass called teosinte. We have played God with seeds for so long that there isn't an "original form" left on the planet.

Finally, plants don't actually want to be eaten. Unlike animals that can run away, plants use chemical warfare as a defense mechanism. Most plants are loaded with lectins, phytates, and oxalates. These are all natural toxins designed to interfere with your digestion or poison your system. For instance eating five raw kidneys beans is enough to put you in the emergency room. Plants that don’t have chemical defenses have physical defenses such as thorns. The only plants that want to have their fruit eaten tend to have bright colored fruit. They are designed this way so that birds will eat them and spread their seed so that they can propagate.

You’re trying to find spiritual health in a 19th-century version of biology. You ignore that in Genesis 9:3, God explicitly updated the menu and told Noah: "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs." If God says meat is just as much a gift as the plants, why are you trying to ignore what He said?

Vegetarian diets are ok depending on what’s in the diet. Vegan diets are pretty much unsustainable without supplements. If you have to take supplements, you’re on the wrong diet.

You should probably take a deep at those money wasted Adventist vegetarian studies. You’ll learn that they showed absolutely no proof that vegetarian diet was better than non vegetarian.

 

[kinda]

Which videos- the ones from Doug? There is something wrong with those videos there were like 8 minutes long. His sermons are at least 30-40 minutes so not sure why there didn't post the full videos.

Watch the ones from the Revelation Series with Pastor Rafferty and Myers- it will walk you though it. Its a long study, but its so good.

This is a popular teaching- they would rather have Jesus sin than keep God's Sabbath. That should tell one everything about which power doesn't want us to keep God's Sabbath

Its history repeated. Look at Jesus Pilate deemed He has done nothing wrong- but the people (who claimed to be of God) were angry and didn't care- crucify Him! Its the same spirit....Rev12:17KJV

Read Steps to Christ, Desire of Ages of Great Controversy- they are long Steps to Christ being the shortest.

God bless!

I tried watching that Revelation series, it just seemed a little to dry for me. I'm extremely partial to Doug Bachelor for some reason.

To me this is absolutely scary. Literal blasphemy in my mind. Where is the out cry? It's extremely sad.

These threads are making more and more certain, that this is spiritual warfare. Is it not good to keep God's laws, even if is not perfectly correct? I say, it's far better, than outright rejection, but that's just my stance.

I think I tried the Desire of Ages. It's really thick, poetic, and amazingly Spirit filled. That's my honest opinion. How any one wants to interpret that is their own option. I didn't really do a deep analysis on it, but at first glance, it doesn't appear worth the criticism it receives. It's a little to thick for my liking, I would prefer a modern summary version. I can honestly say, it seems possible that these writings could be mega devotionals.

What is it? Why are people so negative about her writings? I don't get it. At the same time, I think it would take years to give it a fair critique, I will leave it to the professionals. lol

 

[pinebeach]

Seems the Judaizers have called in all the troops. Let’s keep the information below fresh…

@pinebeach @Magenta @TruthDefender @Just_A__Follower

An SDA member, Dirk Anderson, who left the cult set up a fairly thorough website about his research into Ellen White:

https://www.nonegw.org/

The home page leads to an index of topics.

Be warned: some SDA's created an "anti-Dirk Anderson" response on one of their pages: https://www.ellenwhite.info/dirk_anderson_on_the_bible.htm

The pages (only two for Mr. Anderson's hundreds?) are meant to poison Mr. Anderson's credence with Evangelicals by casting doubt on his personal view of the Bible. Remember: one doesn't have to be a believer in God to know what a cult is when they leave one. No doubt, if Dirk maintains any issues about religion, it might be traced to his time with the Seventh Day Adventists. Having been lied to for years will do that to a person.

Here are his sites:

https://www.nonegw.org/ and https://www.nonsda.org/

I did not have the time to examine them closely so I am not vouching for their doctrinal stance but they seem to provide a good foundation of information that demonstrates how Ellen White and her followers lost their way.

Yeah they have been calling in reinforcements. Gee. All we have is Jesus and the Bible. We don't have all that Ellen White teaching and all the SDA apologetics.

Whatever shall we do.


For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. - John 3:16

I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. - John 10:9

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?” - John 11:25-26

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, - 1 Timothy 2:5

And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. - 1 John 5:11-12p

 

[pinebeach]

Thank you for your understanding, brother.

......................................................................................... girl actually

 

[Aaron56]

Seventh Day Adventists be like:

 

[pinebeach]

Amen and amen!

 

[pinebeach]

Once you start playing around with false doctrine you open yourself up to deception which is what people do when they are being led by spirits that are not of the Lord Jesus

As I have continually said over and over and over AND that is in agreement with scripture.

 

[pinebeach]

God created us as vegetarians.

the strictly vegetarian program outlined in Genesis was lifted immediately following the Flood. In Genesis 9:3 God told Noah,

Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. (ESV, emphasis added)

So, once and again and always, scripture details a different plan than the SDA plan.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Figured I would post a quick AI overview in case anyone missed it:

Dr. Kellogg’s most famous manual, "Plain Facts for Old and Young," which contained his detailed instructions for the surgical torture of children, was first published in 1877. He didn't just write it and move on; he updated and reprinted it multiple times throughout the 1880s and 1890s—the very decades when Ellen White was sending her strongest endorsements.
Amazon.com +2

DATE: 1877
Kellogg’s Public Actions: Published
Plain Facts for Old and Young
, advocating for carbolic acid on the clitoris of girls and circumcision on boys without anesthesia as a "salutary" punishment for "secret vice" (Source: Google Books - Plain Facts).
Ellen White’s Claims: No warning given; she remains his closest ally and supporter of the Battle Creek Sanitarium.

DATE: 1888
Kellogg’s Public Actions: New and expanded editions of
Plain Facts
(detailing the child surgeries) are in wide circulation and heavily promoted in Adventist circles.
Ellen White’s Claims: "I believe he has confidence in me... He has treated me with all the courtesy that he would show toward his mother." (Source: Ellen G. White Estate - Letter 21, 1888)

DATE: 1892
Kellogg’s Public Actions: Performing up to 20 surgeries a day and documenting these "cures" for behavioral issues in children.
Ellen White’s Claims: "God is very near you in your work, angels are close in attendance." (Source: Ellen G. White Estate - Letter 7, 1892)

DATE: 1897
Kellogg’s Public Actions: Serving as Superintendent of the Battle Creek Sanitarium and a world-renowned medical authority for the SDA.
Ellen White’s Claims: She tells Kellogg his work was "appointed" by God and suggests he is doing the work the Lord wants done. (Source: Ellen G. White Estate - Manuscript 43, 1897)

DATE: 1901
Kellogg’s Public Actions: Leading the eugenics movement and promoting sterilization theories for the "unfit."
Ellen White’s Claims: At the General Conference, she declares: "The Lord said, ‘He is My physician.’" (Source: Ellen G. White Estate - General Conference Bulletin, April 14, 1901)

If she was a prophet, why was she completely blind to his documented cruelty for 24 years? She only turned on him in 1903 because of his "theology," not because of what he did to children. Does God appoint people to use acid on kids, or was she just a false prophet who couldn't spot a monster right in front of her?
The "Prophetic" Failure

• No Warning: Throughout these years, her letters to him were mostly about church politics, money, and power—not his cruel medical practices.
• The Pantheism Shift: She only truly turned against him in 1903, and it wasn't because of how he treated children; it was because he published a book called The Living Templethat contained "pantheistic" views about God.
• Documented Evil: The methods he used—like circumcision without anesthesia to "punish" the mind and acid on girls to cause painful blistering—were not secrets; they were in his books that anyone could buy.
  Amazon.com +4

"The timeline is clear. Kellogg didn't hide his 'cures'; he put them in best-selling books. While he was telling parents to use acid and surgery as 'punishment' for children, Ellen White was telling the world that he was 'God-appointed' and had 'angels' standing next to him. "If you're waiting for her to finally say 'Stop using acid on kids,' you're going to be waiting a long time. Even after she called him a 'wolf' in 1903, it was only because he questioned her theology, not his surgery. If she was a prophet, why did her 'light' only show her his bad theology while remaining completely dark on his documented evil?

 

[Just_A__Follower]

the strictly vegetarian program outlined in Genesis was lifted immediately following the Flood. In Genesis 9:3 God told Noah,

Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. (ESV, emphasis added)

So, once and again and always, scripture details a different plan than the SDA plan.

They try to claim that Adam and Eve were vegetarian when in fact they would have been the strictest vegans ever to be on earth. They also always leave out the fact that ellen still ate meat for 30 years after telling everyone else that meat was bad.

 

[Aaron56]

Terrible misspelling in image above. So here's a better one:

 

[Inquisitor]

You’re trying to find spiritual health in a 19th-century version of biology. You ignore that in Genesis 9:3, God explicitly updated the menu and told Noah: "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs." If God says meat is just as much a gift as the plants, why are you trying to ignore what He said?

A very powerful paragraph.