Interesting timing. I was recalling in the last few days the discussions you and I had early last year about hina in John6:29 which verse(s) has been a point of typical controversy here once again.
Loss of salvation???
- Thread starter gratefuloneson
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As someone who believes scripture teaches it's possible to forfeit one's salvation, I'm perfectly secure in my salvation. The idea that the only way to have security is to believe OSAS is a misguided attempt to scare people into believing their creed. The way to security is to love the Lord, trust Him and remain faithful to Him. Making a mistake or one sin is not going to cause someone to lose salvation; denying the Lord and renouncing your faith, as Charles Stanley teaches, may very well cost you.
The foundation laid by Christ, if present, is indestructible, no matter how many other houses are built.
You are conflating two different ideas in scripture.
T
TruthDefender
Guest
Because you’re twisting doctrine, this makes it false.
Actually, what you believe and what this thread is about are 2 different things.
T
TruthDefender
Guest
Finally, I agree with you to a small point!! Wow!!
However, if someone is believing in a twisted, man-made creed/ doctrine, shouldn’t we try to correct them?
Also, it’s not “may””very well cost you”, it’s a 100% definite LOSS!
What you do is your business. All I know is if being right and forcing your beliefs on others becomes more important than living a life of holiness in Christ, you've already lost. That's what I believe.
The foundation laid IS Christ. If I forsake building on that foundation and I am busily building on a foundation I lay next door to that foundation, I am not building on the foundation that those on it are guaranteed survival even if their works are all burned up.
Personally, I no longer care which view - OSAS, eternal security or conditional security - is correct. The issue does not affect how I live any longer. I just love living in friendship with Jesus and getting to know Him more..
Hey!
They had been working for their salvation.
The only command?
Was to stop doing that.
You get locked onto words.
Not the whole thought.
Because, I, Jay Walker, say so!
You should have been a pope.
"Off with their heads!"
I missed something you said in my first response.
That "food" we work for is the Word of God - understood correctly.
This is how we are to work once we are saved.....
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works,
which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Ephesians 2:10
.
If someone's believing what I suppose is an incorrect doctrine is not motivating them to break the two great commandments, but my believing what I suppose is correct doctrine is motivating me to break the two great commandments, which of us needs correction more?Finally, I agree with you to a small point!! Wow!!
However, if someone is believing in a twisted, man-made creed/ doctrine, shouldn’t we try to correct them?
Also, it’s not “may””very well cost you”, it’s a 100% definite LOSS!
T
TruthDefender
Guest
This is why I work from grammar rather than theology and work not to rewrite the Word.
Jesus issues a negative command and a positive one. He doesn’t end their working - His command redirects their work toward the food that endures.
When they work for that food and believe, they have been obedient to His command - both the negative and the positive.
As you know, He will begin to clear up the "works" issue in the next 2 verses.
In this we have agreement.
Jesus makes this clear as He continues in John6 including where He speaks of God drawing men to Jesus by teaching them and where He says His words are spirit & life.
So, contextually He's commanding them to work to hear and learn His Word and to believe.
So, when they hear and learn and believe they have done so in obedience to His command - both the negative and the positive part of it.
This is the work - not works - that God requires of unbelieving men.
Same here. But I don't think it ever did affect me. However, I think I did recognize how ES was affecting some.
Philippians 2:12-13
Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence,
but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear
and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his
good purpose." Philippians 2:12-13
but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear
and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his
good purpose." Philippians 2:12-13
He wants to be working in believers!.....
We must work!
Work to allow Him to do His work in us, and not fight Him.
Why not fight Him?
For His ways are not our ways!
The only way we can stop getting in His way from working in believers?
Is to do the work of disciplining oneself in learning sound doctrine from a qualified teacher.
In doing so? You will be learning His ways!
Knowing His ways, allows God and the believer to work together!!!
Our work?
Is to learn to work with God who desires to be working in us!
.................
grace and peace ......
Yep. You are, but nobody else is unless they follow your subjective rules.