The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[SabbathBlessing]

Both. Moses delivered the Ten Commandments to Israel at Mt Sinai.

God wrote them personally, spoke them personally to Israel and called them "My commandments" who better to define the law of God than God Himself? Moses was there and took no credit to the Ten Commandments Exo32:16 Considering they were they are we were not I am sticking with what God said. When we stop believing, doubting the Word of God, in this case the written and spoken Testimony of God Exo31:18 it never works out well.

The fact that the Ten Commandments came from God is indisputable. The claim that the Ten Commandments apply to the Gentiles is in question.No one is claiming that Moses wrote the Ten Commandments. The claim under examination is whether the Ten Commandments are universally obligatory among all human beings or obligatory only to those under the Mt. Sinai Covenant.

Well you will not find one Scripture that says Gentiles can break the commandments of God- in the end there are just two groups. Those with the faith of Jesus and keep the commandments of God Rev14:12 Rev22:14 NKJV and those who God says He does not know 1John2:4 depart from Me Mat7:21-23 Rev 22:15 No wonder why Jesus said "whoever" breaks and teaches others to break the least of these commandments is not the path to reconciliation but of sin and judgement. Mat5:18-30

If we can't agree on our conclusions, at least let's agree on the facts. To say that the Law had nothing to do with Moses is contradicted by the Exodus account.

I am actually waiting for you to provide Scripture and not just "take my word for it" approach. In this case you would have to dispute a lot of thus saith the LORD's on what He claimed as His Exoo20:6 they belong to God, not Moses. And His people of faith keep them. Rev12:17 Rev14:12 John14:15 1John5:3 Rev22:14NKJV

2 Corinthians 3:3
Here, Paul did not assert that the Ten Commandments were written on the hearts of his readers. Metaphorically speaking, Paul himself is written on the hearts of his readers as if a letter of recommendation.

Lets look at what this actually says:

2 Cor3:3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God

Who wrote the Ten Commandments?

Exo 31:18;And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
What is the finger of God?
Luke 11:20 But if I cast out demons with the finger of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.

The Ten Commandments was not written with ink but by the Spirit of the living God

2 Cor3:3 not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.

Not on tablets of stone- Which law is being spoken of plainly? The Ten Commandments is the only law written on tablets of stone by the Spirit of the living God and where did that law go? This verse us explicitly- written on tablets of the heart- God's laws that only He can define and He did both written and spoken so we will have no excuses.

Hebrews 8:10
This refers to the Houses of Judah and Israel, not the Gentile people.

Yes, God never made a covenant directly with the Gentiles it has always been with Israel because that represents God's people, what God calls His son. We are grafted into this covenant by faith, not nationality Gal3:26-29

The laws of one land are not necessarily obligatory on those living in another land. Thus, the laws God gave to Israel are not obligatory on the rest of humanity.

The Ten Commandments is God moral standard of righteousness Psa119:172 Isa56:1-2 which is from everlasting to everlasting Psa 119:142 the foundation of His throne. Gentiles are not going to get a pass for sin. This is a deception and sin is breaking the law of God 1John3:4 His version James2:10-12 not ours.

Jesus was speaking into a culture that substituted Rabbinical traditions for the Laws of God. In this context, Jesus was defending his teaching style as against the teaching style of the Rabbis. Jesus spoke with his own authority from the scriptures, whereas the Rabbis relied on precedent law.

Bottom line, John 8:48-53 says nothing about Gentile obligations.

It sad how much Bible gets tossed out because of the "its not for me" mentality. I hope that works out for you. Jesus said man is to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God Mat4:4, not just the ones we are okay with. Its basically telling Jesus well in this teaching I will believe you but not this one, it makes on their own god.

 

[vassal]

No, own up to your congregational practices with your sabbath. Else hypocrites sabbath-breakers have no say about any sabbath, other than preaching a false one.

ATG, that practice is from God, who says to REMEMBER the Sabbath , yes, from God Himself! Jesus confirmed it, explained it, and kept it! God wants us to keep it, and in heaven all will keep it. It is in Scripture, here are some of the the verses:

The Sabbath Established:

• Genesis 2:2–3 — God rested on the seventh day and sanctified it
• Exodus 20:8–11 — "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy" (The 4th Commandment)
• Deuteronomy 5:12–15 — The Sabbath commandment repeated

Jesus and the Sabbath:

• Luke 4:16 — It was Jesus' custom to observe the Sabbath
• Mark 2:27–28 — "The Sabbath was made for man... the Son of Man is Lord also of the Sabbath"
• Matthew 5:17 — Jesus came not to abolish the Law but to fulfil it

The Sabbath Kept in Heaven:

• Isaiah 66:22–23 — "From one Sabbath to another, all flesh shall come to worship before Me, saith the LORD"

The Sabbath Still Stands:

• Hebrews 4:9 — "There remaineth therefore a Sabbath-rest for the people of God"
• Isaiah 58:13–14 — God calls the Sabbath a delight and an honour

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I think some don't know or understand Paul in Hebrews 8 it quoting Jeremiah 31

Verbatim! And it would have to be a law known to Jeremiah, why all Ten Commandments was repeated in that chapter.

 

[Roger316]

The answer you are looking for is in Jeremiah and also in Ezekiel. Paul speaks about the same thing when he quotes Jeremiah in Hebrews 8:8–12.

Paul's audience is the Hebrews, not the Gentiles.

 

[vassal]

Paul's audience is the Hebrews, not the Gentiles.

so? what difference does this make? are you of the ones who thinks everything in the O.T. and what Jesus did is for Israel only? Are we not ALL God's children's?

 

[vassal]

Verbatim! And it would have to be a law known to Jeremiah, why all Ten Commandments was repeated in that chapter.

Exactly!

 

[vassal]

Jesus never asked the Gentile believers to keep the Ten Commandments. When Jesus commands us to keep HIS commandments, he isn't talking about the Ten Commandments; he is talking about his teaching.

Yes Roger, what did Jesus teach? The Ten Commandments — here is a list of His teachings about the commandments and His magnification of them ALL:

1. No other gods before Me (Exodus 20:3)

"Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." (Matthew 4:10) "No man can serve two masters." (Matthew 6:24)

2. No idols (Exodus 20:4–5)

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:24)

3. Do not take God's name in vain (Exodus 20:7)

"Hallowed be thy name." (Matthew 6:9) "Swear not at all... let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay." (Matthew 5:34–37)

4. Remember the Sabbath (Exodus 20:8–11)

"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27–28) "It was his custom" to keep it (Luke 4:16)

5. Honour thy father and mother (Exodus 20:12)

"Honour thy father and thy mother." (Matthew 19:19) "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (Matthew 15:4)

6. Thou shalt not kill (Exodus 20:13)

"Ye have heard that it was said... Thou shalt not kill... But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment." (Matthew 5:21–22) — Jesus magnified this one — murder begins in the heart with anger.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery (Exodus 20:14)

"Ye have heard that it was said... Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matthew 5:27–28) — Jesus magnified this one too — adultery begins with the eyes and the heart.

8. Thou shalt not steal (Exodus 20:15)

"Thou knowest the commandments... Do not steal." (Mark 10:19) "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's." (Matthew 22:21)

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness (Exodus 20:16)

"Thou shalt not bear false witness." (Matthew 19:18) "Let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay." (Matthew 5:37) "The truth shall make you free." (John 8:32)

10. Thou shalt not covet (Exodus 20:17)

"Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth." (Luke 12:15) "Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth." (Matthew 6:19)

And finally Jesus said:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."(Matthew 5:17) "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:19)

---

Jesus did not replace the Ten Commandments , He went deeper into every single one of them, showing that true obedience is not just outward action but a matter of the heart. He showed us by example how to keep them properly, the Commandments were a big part of his ministry.

 

[Cameron143]

Wasn't Jesus under the law? Weren't those who Jesus ministered to under the law? Does Jesus ever command a Gentile to keep the law?

 

[JimiSurvivor]

So do not believe Him at His word and use your words instead? This is where people go wrong. Jesus knows the difference between man and Jew and used the word for mankind in Greek and Adam in Hebrew when the Sabbath started Exo20:11 before Jew, before Israel, before Moses, just man and God. No wonder why He invited everyone to join themselves to Him and serve Him and keep the Sabbath Isa56:6

Ellen G White again:

"I saw that as the Jews crucified Jesus, so the nominal churches had crucified these messages, and therefore they cannot be benefited by the intercession of Jesus there. Like the Jews, who offered their useless sacrifices, they offer up their useless prayers to the apartment which Jesus has left; and Satan, pleased with the deception, assumes a religious character, and leads the minds of these professed Christians to himself, working with his power, his signs and lying wonders, to fasten them in his snare."

Ellen White is teaching that non-SDA Christians — including every Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Anglican, evangelical, and Pentecostal on earth — are in the same spiritual condition as the Jews who crucified Jesus. Their prayers are useless. Jesus does not intercede for them. They are being led by Satan.

God hates those who sow discord. SDA claims that all denominations are spiritual Babylon. So 1800 years of Christian witness, sacrifice, struggle and good works are dismissed. And all on the word of someone who denies God's word.

Non SDA are, according to EG White,

Spiritually “fallen” and rejected by God
Have had the Holy Spirit largely withdrawn from them
Offer useless prayers that Jesus does not hear
Have no intercessor, Jesus having “moved on” to the Most Holy Place
Experience only false revivals engineered by Satan
Make false “converts” whose hearts are “as black as ever”
Are “Babylon” — the corrupt, apostate harlot of Revelation
Are “worse than heathen”
Will, in the final crisis, become the persecutors of the faithful SDA remnant

No doubt you imagine that you are suffering that persecution now. Perhaps you should quit sowing discord and quit promoting SDA false teaching that slanders God's people.

Very enlightening. I have been in several cults before and they always claim to have special knowledge that no other group has grasped they also judge others, even those who have put their faith in Jesus to save them as false believers, and the spawn of the whore of Babylon. They despise the Body of Christ as whole who do not accept their own their beliefs, calling THEM intolerant antichrists and identifying themselves as persecuted victims. Much of this kind of thinking is evident in the above post.

 

[vassal]

Both. Moses delivered the Ten Commandments to Israel at Mt Sinai.

The fact that the Ten Commandments came from God is indisputable. The claim that the Ten Commandments apply to the Gentiles is in question.

If we can't agree on our conclusions, at least let's agree on the facts. To say that the Law had nothing to do with Moses is contradicted by the Exodus account.


No one is claiming that Moses wrote the Ten Commandments. The claim under examination is whether the Ten Commandments are universally obligatory among all human beings or obligatory only to those under the Mt. Sinai Covenant.


2 Corinthians 3:3
Here, Paul did not assert that the Ten Commandments were written on the hearts of his readers. Metaphorically speaking, Paul himself is written on the hearts of his readers as if a letter of recommendation.

Hebrews 8:10
This refers to the Houses of Judah and Israel, not the Gentile people.


The laws of one land are not necessarily obligatory on those living in another land. Thus, the laws God gave to Israel are not obligatory on the rest of humanity.

Jesus was speaking into a culture that substituted Rabbinical traditions for the Laws of God. In this context, Jesus was defending his teaching style as against the teaching style of the Rabbis. Jesus spoke with his own authority from the scriptures, whereas the Rabbis relied on precedent law.

Bottom line, John 8:48-53 says nothing about Gentile obligations.

Roger here are some verses that do indicate the words of God are for all humanity, it was first given to Israel but all are welcomed and always were;

Here is the case made clearly, straight from Scripture, in KJV:

God's Covenant Was Never For Israel Alone​

It Started With ALL Humanity — Before Israel Even Existed​

Genesis 1:27

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

Not Israel. Not one nation. Man. Every human being bears God's image from the very beginning.
Genesis 9:12–13, 16

"And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature... the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh upon the earth."

This is the covenant with Noah — made with every living creature on earth, long before Abraham, long before Moses, long before Israel existed as a nation.

Abraham Was Called To Be A Blessing To ALL Nations​

Genesis 12:3

"And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."

God did not say all families of Israel. He said all families of the earth.
Genesis 22:18

"And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice."

Paul later identifies that seed directly as Christ (Galatians 3:16) — making the blessing of Abraham available to every nation through Him.

God Declared It Plainly Through The Prophets​

Isaiah 49:6

"And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the ends of the earth."

God Himself says restoring Israel alone is too small a task — His salvation was always intended to reach the ends of the earth.
Isaiah 56:6–7

"Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants... Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people."

God explicitly includes strangers and foreigners who love Him. Jesus quoted this exact verse when He cleansed the temple (Matthew 21:13).
Psalm 22:27

"All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee."

Psalm 86:9

"All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name."

---

Jesus Confirmed It Was Always For All​

John 3:16

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Not the world of Israel. The world. And not whosoever is born Jewish — whosoever believeth.
Matthew 28:19–20

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you."

Jesus commands His disciples to take His teaching — including all things He commanded — to all nations. This directly answers the argument that the commandments were only for Israel.
John 10:16

"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."

Jesus Himself acknowledges there are other sheep outside of Israel that belong to Him.

---

Paul Seals It Beyond All Doubt​

Romans 3:29

"Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also."

Paul asks and answers the question directly and plainly.
Galatians 3:28–29

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Every Gentile who is in Christ becomes a heir of the very same covenant made with Abraham.
Ephesians 2:12–13

"That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

Paul acknowledges the Gentiles were once outside the covenant — but declares they are now brought in through Christ's blood. Not given a different covenant. Brought into the same one.
Ephesians 3:6

"That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel."

Fellow heirs. Same body. Same promise. Three times in one verse Paul hammers the point home.

---

Revelation Confirms It Ends That Way Too​

Revelation 7:9

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands."

The final gathering around God's throne is not one nation. It is every nation, every kindred, every people, every tongue — all standing together before the same God, under the same covenant, worshipping the same Lamb, forever and ever.

 

[Roger316]

God wrote them personally, spoke them personally to Israel and called them "My commandments" who better to define the law of God than God Himself?

He spoke them through Moses to Israel as the terms of a Covenant at Mt. Sinai.

Well you will not find one Scripture that says Gentiles can break the commandments of God

And neither will you find a scripture that says Gentiles are obligated to obey the Ten Commandments.

Revelation 14:12
The "saints" in this context are the Jewish believers living in Israel at the time of the Second Coming of Christ, known as the 144K, They are not Gentiles.

Revelation 22:14
This verse gets us closer to the answer. The New Testament teaches us that the people of God, whether they be Jews or Gentiles, look forward to a Sabbath day of Rest. Hebrews 4:9 Revelation chapter 22 is a description of that time.

God commanded the children of Israel to remember that Day and keep it holy by refraining from work on Saturday. God did not command the Gentiles to abstain from work on Saturday, even though they also look forward to it.

1 John 2:4
This is referring to the teaching of Jesus, not the Ten Commandments.

Yes, God never made a covenant directly with the Gentiles it has always been with Israel because that represents God's people, what God calls His son. We are grafted into this covenant by faith, not nationality Gal3:26-29

Actually, our introduction into the New Covenant is through the Blood of Christ as he said in the upper room Discourse.

The Ten Commandments is God moral standard of righteousness

What is moral about resting on Saturday? Nothing.

From the perspective of the Old Covenant, the Fourth Commandment looks back to the creation account when God rested on the Seventh Day. From the perspective of the New Covenant, the people of God look forward to another Day of Rest and there is no outward sign or practice to commemorate the coming Day of Rest except the Lord's prayer. "Thy kingdom come on earth as it is in Heaven."


The moral aspect of the Fourth Commandment is to Remember the Sabbath Day,

It sad how much Bible gets tossed out because of the "its not for me" mentality.

We are not tossing anything out. We are noticing a change in Law, which took place after the Death, Burial, Resurrection, and Ascension of Jesus Christ.

 

[Roger316]

so? what difference does this make?

Identifying the audience is one of the critical steps in proper exegesis.

are you of the ones who thinks everything in the O.T. and what Jesus did is for Israel only? Are we not ALL God's children's?

I am one of those who think that God had a covenant relationship with Israel and his descendants, one which they broke, and that God will make a New Covenant with them in the future.

Under the Old Covenant, Israel's children remembered the creation account when God rested on the Seventh day by doing no work on a Saturday. Under the New Covenant, God's people look forward to a new Day of Rest when God will give them true rest.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

He spoke them through Moses to Israel as the terms of a Covenant at Mt. Sinai.

No, God directly spoke His Ten Commandments and called them "My commandments" Moses is not God. Moses wrote another law that was besides the ark of the covenant-Deut31:24-26 that held the blessings and curses for breaking God's commandments, the Ten.

Can you please point to where it says Moses here? If the God of heaven can't define what are His commandments and how we are to love Him, than who does? Man- why are we elevating what man says over what God said our Creator said Exo20:11? When did God stop being God?

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

And neither will you find a scripture that says Gentiles are obligated to obey the Ten Commandments.

Revelation 14:12
The "saints" in this context are the Jewish believers living in Israel at the time of the Second Coming of Christ, known as the 144K, They are not Gentiles.

Thats not in the Text- God's saints are God's saved, just two groups- saved and lost.

Revelation 22:14
This verse gets us closer to the answer. The New Testament teaches us that the people of God, whether they be Jews or Gentiles, look forward to a Sabbath day of Rest. Hebrews 4:9 Revelation chapter 22 is a description of that time.

Ok I am beginning to see a pattern that there is just no reasoning, God's Word says one thing and you say another. The Scripture tells us not to add to God's Word and there is a good reason for it Pro30:5-6

Heb4.9 says there remains a Sabbath-rest for the people of God and the rest in this verse literally means keeping the Sabbath, just as God commanded Exo20:8-11

Original Word: σαββατισμός
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Pronunciation: sab-bat-is-mos'
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
sabbatismos: Sabbath rest
Definition: Sabbath rest
Meaning: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

God commanded the children of Israel to remember that Day and keep it holy by refraining from work on Saturday. God did not command the Gentiles to abstain from work on Saturday, even though they also look forward to it.

1 John 2:4
This is referring to the teaching of Jesus, not the Ten Commandments.

Where does it say that? So you are claiming the commandment of God that He defined both written and spoken are not His commandments when He said they are?

You do know Jesus is God right? He is the GREAT I AM from the OT. He came to magnify His laws Isa42:21 not end not a jot or tittle. Mat5:18-30

The moral aspect of the Fourth Commandment is to Remember the Sabbath Day,

According to God the moral aspect of the Sabbath is to Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy Exo20:8 to work 6 days Exo20:9 and cease our work on the seventh day Sabbath so we can keep the Sabbath day holy as a holy convocation Lev23:3 the day to honor God and keep our focus on Him Isa58:13 to serve the Lord, love Him name and join ourselves to Him Isa56:6 to worship Him Isa66:23 all thus saith the LORD'S. Its not that God wasn't clear on this matter, its our unbelief same as those who came before us. Heb4:2 Heb4:6 Eze 20:13 Eze20:15-16 Heb3:7-19 Heb4:11

We are not tossing anything out. We are noticing a change in Law, which took place after the Death, Burial, Resurrection, and Ascension of Jesus Christ.

The law went from tablets of stone to tablets of the hearts 2Cor3:3 not a jot or tittle changing and doing so is against the will of God Mat5:18-19.

 

[vassal]

Identifying the audience is one of the critical steps in proper exegesis.

I am one of those who think that God had a covenant relationship with Israel and his descendants, one which they broke, and that God will make a New Covenant with them in the future.

Under the Old Covenant, Israel's children remembered the creation account when God rested on the Seventh day by doing no work on a Saturday. Under the New Covenant, God's people look forward to a new Day of Rest when God will give them true rest.

well all I can say is they you go against what is written clearly in scripture. I presented the scriptural evidence where is yours?

here is mine again;

Here is the case made clearly, straight from Scripture, in KJV:

Genesis 1:27

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

Not Israel. Not one nation. Man. Every human being bears God's image from the very beginning.
Genesis 9:12–13, 16

"And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature... the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh upon the earth."

This is the covenant with Noah — made with every living creature on earth, long before Abraham, long before Moses, long before Israel existed as a nation.

Genesis 12:3

"And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."

God did not say all families of Israel. He said all families of the earth.
Genesis 22:18

"And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice."

Paul later identifies that seed directly as Christ (Galatians 3:16) — making the blessing of Abraham available to every nation through Him.

Isaiah 49:6

"And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the ends of the earth."

God Himself says restoring Israel alone is too small a task — His salvation was always intended to reach the ends of the earth.
Isaiah 56:6–7

"Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants... Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people."

God explicitly includes strangers and foreigners who love Him. Jesus quoted this exact verse when He cleansed the temple (Matthew 21:13).
Psalm 22:27

"All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee."

Psalm 86:9

"All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name."

---

John 3:16

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Not the world of Israel. The world. And not whosoever is born Jewish — whosoever believeth.
Matthew 28:19–20

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you."

Jesus commands His disciples to take His teaching — including all things He commanded — to all nations. This directly answers the argument that the commandments were only for Israel.
John 10:16

"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."

Jesus Himself acknowledges there are other sheep outside of Israel that belong to Him.

---

Romans 3:29

"Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also."

Paul asks and answers the question directly and plainly.
Galatians 3:28–29

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Every Gentile who is in Christ becomes a heir of the very same covenant made with Abraham.
Ephesians 2:12–13

"That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

Paul acknowledges the Gentiles were once outside the covenant — but declares they are now brought in through Christ's blood. Not given a different covenant. Brought into the same one.
Ephesians 3:6

"That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel."

Fellow heirs. Same body. Same promise. Three times in one verse Paul hammers the point home.

---

Revelation 7:9

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands."

The final gathering around God's throne is not one nation. It is every nation, every kindred, every people, every tongue — all standing together before the same God, under the same covenant, worshipping the same Lamb, forever and ever.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Very enlightening. I have been in several cults before and they always claim to have special knowledge that no other group has grasped they also judge others, even those who have put their faith in Jesus to save them as false believers, and the spawn of the whore of Babylon. They despise the Body of Christ as whole who do not accept their own their beliefs, calling THEM intolerant antichrists and identifying themselves as persecuted victims. Much of this kind of thinking is evident in the above post.

Was God creating a cult for asking us to love Him and keep His commandments Exo20:6 Exo20:1-17 Was Jesus who is God in a cult for keeping every Sabbath Luke4:16 and the apostles Acts 15:21 Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4 Acts 17:2 and is there a cult continuing in heaven where the Sabbath continues thus saith the LORD Isa66:22-23 no special knowledge needed, just faith in God and what Jesus said to live by His every Word Mat4:4 instead of man-made traditions that are sadly leading so many in a ditch Mat15:3-14 Mark7-7-13

We can find this all in our Bibles, the Creator of the Universe Exo31:18 Rev14:7 directly tell using us, the issue is not that He was not clear, its not fully trusting Him in what He asks. God said Remember- man teaches the opposite. I guess it will get sorted out in God's time.

 

[Cameron143]

No takers?

Was Jesus under the law?
Were the people who Jesus ministered to under the law?
Did Jesus ever command any Gentile to keep any OT command?

 

[Roger316]

Yes Roger, what did Jesus teach?

Jesus didn't teach the Ten Commandments per se. The people already knew them and already kept them. He responds to the Rabbinical Tradition Known as the Oral Law, which he calls "the traditions of men." The religious leaders of Israel believed that if the nation kept the entire Law for one day, the Messiah would come and free them from Rome. To make this possible, the scribes and Pharisees built a hedge around the law, introducing more restrictive practices than the Law prescribed.

One such tradition was the Rabbinical ruling about using the bare hands to eat grain from a field. In their opinion, rubbing grain between the hands was "work" and therefore could not be done on the Sabbath day. Jesus did not agree with their opinion and challenged it on the basis that God allows a poor person to glean the edges of a field if they are hungry.

Mark 2:27-28
Jesus is saying that he, as the messiah, is lord of the Sabbath. Feeding the poor honors God more than keeping a made-up rule.

Jesus did not replace the Ten Commandments , He went deeper into every single one of them, showing that true obedience is not just outward action but a matter of the heart. He showed us by example how to keep them properly, the Commandments were a big part of his ministry.

The question is not whether Jesus replaced the Ten Commandments, because he didn't. The question is whether Jesus or his Apostles commanded the Gentiles to rest on Saturday, which they didn't.

 

[stilllearning]

It is so painfully obvious I scratch my head wondering how can it be missed. Christ fulfilled Jeremiah 31 and in front of our eyes he did so. Matthew 5 is a good start to see that he is literally taking the old commands written in stone by his finger and now rewriting the new commands with his finger in out heart.

Matthew 5:21-22

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

We have the old and we have the new. Christ is already elevating what is going to be expected under the new covenant.

27-30 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

All through the gospels Christ is writing the new commands on our heart in plain view. To such a point that when he is about to leave he tells his disciples in Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

He gave the commandments and wrote them upon the hearts as he said he would do and then told the disciples now go and tell others.

He was so thorough that in Hebrews chapter 8 when it quotes Jeremiah 31 he finishes in verse 13 saying this "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

Old is the Greek word palaioó: it means

1. to make (passively, become) worn out, or declare obsolete

b. to declare a thing to be old and so about to be abrogated: Hebrews 8:13 (see γηράσκω, at the end).

Concept and Imagery
The verb underlying Strong’s 3822 conveys the aging, wearing out, or rendering obsolete of something that once appeared sound. Scripture employs the term not for mere chronology but for a qualitative decline that contrasts sharply with the enduring reality of God’s kingdom. By highlighting temporal decay, each passage directs attention to what remains perpetually new in Christ.

Hebrews 8:13 (twice in the verse, with aorist and perfect forms): By declaring a “new covenant,” God “has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear”. The Mosaic covenant, good and purposeful in its era, now yields to the covenant mediated by Jesus, which will never age or pass away.

What remains of the old will be in force for judgement.

Romans 2:14-15 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;

Under the written law the covenant that God made with man the standard was man himself. Love the Lord with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind. Love your neighbor as yourself. Christ also says judge not lest you be judged but what measure you judge it will be the same judgement. Christ also says do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

The standard was us and how we wanted to be treated. When gentiles without the law made laws such as do not kill, do not steal. Laws on fiscal recompense when property is destroyed and such. When those without the law, made laws with the same standard God gave under the law they became a law unto themselves. As God is no respecter of persons so the standard was the same for all mankind period.

Paul also points out that mankind will also be judged by his gospel of Christ.

Anyway in closing Christ when he walked this earth he did give the new commandments that the Apostles preached and even explained in more detail so that we under the new covenant we can live in accordance with them.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Can you point to the Scripture where Jesus said this

Mark 2:27-28
Jesus is saying that he, as the messiah, is lord of the Sabbath.

but meant this?

Feeding the poor honors God more than keeping a made-up rule.

Where is the Scripture that says if we don't like what Jesus says we can just re-write it to whatever we want it to say, speaking for God, basically telling Jesus His words don't matter, I know better.

I see why there is so much confusion in doctrine, its not that Jesus was not clear, its not believing Him and thinking what He said plainly means something not stated or if we don't like what He says well that was for "other people". His example was not mean for me, but other people.

And when did one of the Ten Commandments written by the God of Creation Exo20:11 the only God we are called to worship Rev14:7 God's own Testimony Exo31:18 because a "made up rule"

 

[Roger316]

Not Israel. Not one nation.

The Mt. Sinai Covenant is recorded in the Bible and is a fact of History. That is the place where God commanded the people to do no work on Saturday in order to "Keep the Sabbath Day Holy." This commandment was incorporated into the Old Covenant and it looked backward in time to when God rested on the Seventh Day.

God's people now look forward to a different Sabbath Rest.