Loss of salvation???

[SabbathBlessing]

Proof texts aren't helpful. Try to understand what the verses mean from within their context.

God gave the context so we don't have to. God's Truth is just that, it stays that way because it came from God.

 

[Cameron143]

I agree. Having living faith is having a faith that is living. And to be living faith, the faith must be sufficient to move the living body, the living soul, to behave commensurate to what is professed to be one's belief. One can be persuaded to be 40% in agreement with a biblical statement, but harbour 60% of conflicting opinions and fear of the consequences of acting commensurately. The result is that one does not act on what one feels could be true, and what one publicly or mentally professes to believe is true because one' knows one's religious peers require that profession, but one still does not act in accordance with that profession. And acting in accordance with the profession is obedience and the fruit of faith. Acting contrary to the profession is disobedience and the fruit of unbelief

Faith is never 60-40. Faith is always 100% being fully convinced. It is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for. It is the EVIDENCE of things not seen.

 

[Toknow]

In the estate of unbelief, there is no belief. So no unbeliever believes. Only believers believe. The real question is how one goes from being an unbeliever to becoming a believer.

Well Cameron...
I DID ask you this quite plainly some pages ago...
but you never really did reply.

My guess is that you're reformed in theology and believe that God must make one become a believer.
or
God gives a person a new heart and thus that person will be able to accept/obey the gospel message.

Which, basically, is stating that a person must believe first before he can become a believer.

Calvinism is like this....
it's full of mysteries.

 

[Cameron143]

Well Cameron...
I DID ask you this quite plainly some pages ago...
but you never really did reply.

My guess is that you're reformed in theology and believe that God must make one become a believer.
or
God gives a person a new heart and thus that person will be able to accept/obey the gospel message.

Which, basically, is stating that a person must believe first before he can become a believer.

Calvinism is like this....
it's full of mysteries.

No mystery. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Faith doesn't come by believing. Otherwise, Romans 10:17 would say faith comes by believing.

 

[studier]

The issue here is not whether faith & obedience matter, but whether Scripture treats them as the same thing. It doesn't. You're blending categories the Bible keeps distinct. Hebrews 3 itself proves this: verse 18 says they failed to enter because of disobedience (apeitheia), while verse 19 says they failed to enter because of unbelief (apistia) 2 different Greek words used side‑by‑side show 2 different categories describing the same event from different angles, not definitional equivalence. Parallel descriptions do not collapse the categories.

Throughout the New Testament, faith is consistently treated as the root & obedience as the fruit (Rom 1:5 & Gal 5:6). Paul explicitly separates the 2 when he says salvation is ""to the one who does not work but believes"" (Rom 4:5) & again when he insists salvation is NOT of works (Eph 2:8–9) & NOT by works of righteousness (Titus 3:5).

If faith were obedience, Paul would be contradicting himself in every one of those passages. Likewise, Rom 10:16 shows the order clearly: They did not obey the gospel, for who has believed our report? - unbelief is the cause, disobedience the effect, not the definition & 1 John 3:23 reinforces the distinction by giving 2 separate commands: believe in Christ & love one another.

Commands do not redefine the nature of the thing commanded, God commands rest, but rest is not a work. God commands faith, but faith is not obedience. God commands love, but love is not faith. The believer's obedience matters deeply (1 Pet 1:14 & 1 Jn 5:3), but it flows from faith, not into it. When you reverse the order, you turn the fruit into the root & end up redefining the gospel itself.

I’ve said ‘faith is obedience'. The meaning is not that the two words have the same definition. In Scripture, faith and obedience operate as one unified response to God. Faith is obedient by nature.

Heb3:12-19 is a book-ended inclusio using 'unbelief' as the bookends. It begins by saying unbelief is in departure from God. There's no sequence here - unbelief is in departing.

Heb3:13-18 are describing the departure with various words and phrases that all really boil down to the final word used in Heb3:18 - "disobedience" - "the men who disobeyed" - they are the men who departed from God, rebelled, sinned & fell & died, the men who disobeyed.

Heb3:19 ends the description by summarizing all of this as unbelief - the disobedient departure in unbelief.

I've been saying disobedience and unbelief are parallel in Heb3:18-19. Actually the entire section is a form of parallelism. And it's all written in the context of being faithful like our Lord.

There is simply no sense of cause-effect here. It's all an epexegetical description of what unbelief in departing looks like - a unified departure expressed through rebellion, sin, and hardness — in other words, disobedience.

 

[Roger316]

How about the other commandments Roger 316?

Is this the only commandment of the 10?

Are you aware that the other 9 commandments are MORAL in nature....+
and Sabbath worship is CEREMONIAL in nature?

Are Christians required to follow the ceremonial laws of the Mosaic Covenant?

I understand and agree with your emphasis on the morality of the commandments. While all human beings are obligated to live according to the moral vision of the Law of Moses, not all of humanity is obligated to give expression to that moral vision in ritual ways.

Paul, for example, argues against the act of Circumcision, teaching his Gentile readers not to receive circumcision. In this way, he taught us that Gentiles are not obligated to obey that commandment. Just as there are many other commandments that we are not obligated to obey as Gentiles.

A Moral Imperative must be universal, timeless, and rooted in creation. Moral laws (like "do not murder") apply:

A Moral Imperative Must Be Universal, Timeless, and Rooted in Creation​

Moral laws (like “do not murder”) apply:

• to all people
• in all places
• at all times
• because they reflect God’s unchanging character

But the Sabbath command, as given in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5, is:

• tied to Israel’s covenant identity
• grounded in their exodus story
• given as a sign of the Mosaic covenant

A covenant sign is not a universal moral law.

Resting on Saturday is not a moral imperative because the Sabbath was a covenant sign given uniquely to Israel under the Mosaic covenant, not a universal moral law. Jesus reframes the Sabbath as a principle of mercy and rest, and the New Testament explicitly removes Sabbath‑day obligation from Gentile believers. The moral principle of rest remains, but the specific Saturday observance does not.

 

[Toknow]

God placed the 4th commandment in the same unit as only worship Him, not vain His name don't bow to idols and the 4th commandment reveals which God we are to only worship Exo20:11 Rev14:7 and applies the first 3 commandments to. We as humans can't dismantle one of His commandments without dismantling them all as they are all interconnected. And in doing so than which voice is one following.

We keep looking at Hebrews 3 to show that rebellion, sin, disobedience and unbelief are all used interchangeably but we are missing the bigger picture.

What cost an entire generation from entering their promise land filled will milk and honey that they were promised if they love God will all their heart, mind and soul and kept God's commandments- we can see the condition plainly here Deut 6:3-9

So while we may bypass what was their rebellion in the wilderness that kept this generation out of their promised rest it won't do us any good unless we study it, learn from it and not follow in that same example of disobedience as we are plainly told.

Heb 4:11Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

The Bible plainly tells us they rebelled against Him in the wilderness Heb3:7-19

So what was their rebellion in the wilderness? The Bible tells us- what Hebrews and David are quoting

Eze 20:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them

Those that worship on Sunday, the first day of the week, believe that Sabbath means rest.
Man is still resting,,,but on a different day...the day Jesus resurrected.
This was changed by man...but based on what they (the Apostles and those that followed) believed to be a reason that would be acceptable to God.

Jesus is not our rest.
He rose on a Sunday...the first day.
It is to commemorate/remember this resurrection which proved that Jesus is God.
Jesus said that the Sabbath is for mean...not V V.

Been through this many times Sabbathblessing...
Maybe it's just difficult to change what we're brought up with...
maybe Sunday is just a habit that cannot be broken.
Maybe we pick and choose verses that we agree with...
I'm not sure about this, and not dogmatic about it and so dislike
discussing it too much.

And what reason did God give why this whole generation could not enter into His promise land/rest full of milk and honey. He tells us again plainly

Eze 20: 15 So I also raised My hand in an oath to them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, ‘flowing with milk and honey,’ the glory of all lands, 16 because they despised My judgments and did not walk in My statutes, but profaned My Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.

So this verse tells us a few things- one the condition of the Israelites receiving their promised rest was loving God will all their heart, mind and soul Deut6:3-5 which is the greatest commandment and there is no commandment greater Mark12:30-31 and that included the 4th commandment because they profaned God's Sabbath instead of keeping it holy as He commanded they were not able to enter into their promised rest and land full of milk and honey. God related this commandment to breaking another commandment- idol worship because God commanded us to keep the Sabbath day holy, the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God Exo20:8-11 the holy day of the LORD thus saith the LORD. Isa58:13 God could not have been more clear on this had He wrote it out Himself and He did! Exo31:18 so if we are replacing the God of the Bible's voice with another this is idol worship why breaking one of these commandments in the NT we still break them all James2:10-12

Understood.
But the Sunday worshippers believe they are hearing the voice of the same God.

So in the New Testaments we are told plainly not to follow in this same path of disobedience- God does not show partiality Rom2:11 He does not change Mal3:6 so it seems dangerous in my view to not take this warning serious - that we can follow in the same path of disobedience and expect a different result when we were plainly told not to. We have yet to enter into our promise land Rev22:14KJV

I know that, at least some, SDA believe that all others are lost.
It's not in my vocabulary to declare who is saved and who is not.
I've been told a few times now that I'm lost and do not understand Christianity
and that I'm going to hell (this only a few hours ago) because I believe in obeying God
as a must.
God will have to decide.
I will say that I don't believe correct doctrine is what will save us...
but then we'll be back at the beginning of this post of yours.

 

[Roger316]

Jesus was a commandment-keeper John15:10 including the 4th commandment. Luke4:16

He was also a Jew, living in Israel under the Old Covenant.

 

[Toknow]

I understand and agree with your emphasis on the morality of the commandments. While all human beings are obligated to live according to the moral vision of the Law of Moses, not all of humanity is obligated to give expression to that moral vision in ritual ways.

Paul, for example, argues against the act of Circumcision, teaching his Gentile readers not to receive circumcision. In this way, he taught us that Gentiles are not obligated to obey that commandment. Just as there are many other commandments that we are not obligated to obey as Gentiles.

A Moral Imperative must be universal, timeless, and rooted in creation. Moral laws (like "do not murder") apply:

A Moral Imperative Must Be Universal, Timeless, and Rooted in Creation​

Moral laws (like “do not murder”) apply:

• to all people
• in all places
• at all times
• because they reflect God’s unchanging character

But the Sabbath command, as given in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5, is:

• tied to Israel’s covenant identity
• grounded in their exodus story
• given as a sign of the Mosaic covenant

A covenant sign is not a universal moral law.

Resting on Saturday is not a moral imperative because the Sabbath was a covenant sign given uniquely to Israel under the Mosaic covenant, not a universal moral law. Jesus reframes the Sabbath as a principle of mercy and rest, and the New Testament explicitly removes Sabbath‑day obligation from Gentile believers. The moral principle of rest remains, but the specific Saturday observance does not.

I agree.

 

[Toknow]

I disagree. Jesus was not a rule keeper. He harvested grain on the Sabbath, healed on the Sabbath, told a man to carry his mat, and made mud out of saliva. He obeyed God's law; but violated their law.

You mean Jesus did not FULFIL the Law?
He was not a perfect human and thus able to atone for our sins?

Jesus wanted to teach that the Sabbath is for man and not man for the Sabbath.
This is really off topic and I don't care to discuss Sabbath worhsip.

Jesus created the Sabbath, being God.
He wanted to teach that following regulations by rote was not profitable to God.
Rules must be kept with the heart and not with the head.
The SPIRIT of the Sabbath had been lost with all the rules that had been established around it.

It was no longer a DAY OF REST.

When Jesus says, “You have heard it said, but I say to you,” He is not revising the law but revealing its true depth. He moves righteousness from external rule-keeping to internal transformation, from minimal compliance to maximal love. This formulaic pattern asserts His divine authority and teaches that true obedience flows from a heart aligned with God’s character, not from adherence to human interpretations or surface-level rules.

We must agree.
I just said this above.

 

[Toknow]

But....
We have the Beatitudes as well....
"Blessed are the pure/holy in heart for they shall see God"

Pure of heart....AKA holy of heart or in more common terms a "single minded fanatical"
The quote doesn't discuss a time in the future but an If-then scenario of if the condition is accomplished then the result is also enabled upon completion of the condition.

"If you are pure of heart you are seeing God".

But of course we do not want this sort of thing to be discussed among the common people Because that would mean an end to the "leadership class" and ultimately their end of feasting upon the sheep.

What would happen if we KNEW certain people could actually see God actively working and compared that with what we seen our leaders (spiritual and otherwise) doing on a consistent basis?

Membership in church is not mandatory....
Pastoral staff is a highly politically driven position by an all voluntary community.
And not subject to be changed anytime soon.

Power attracts the corruptible....it doesn't corrupt in and of itself. And slowly over time the inexcusable has become not only tolerated but venerated as superior. Because that's what leadership has taught. Because there aren't many people who have become Holy of Heart or understood as being such by the people.

All very true.
I left teaching kids our faith due to the politics in this last church.
I think I understand about this.
And it's the kids that are suffering for it.

I like James 3:1 NOT MANY OF US SHOULD BECOME TEACHERS BECAUSE JUDGMENT WILL BE HARSHER. (my words).

TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN, MUCH WILL BE EXPECTED. (my words).

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Those that worship on Sunday, the first day of the week, believe that Sabbath means rest.
Man is still resting,,,but on a different day...the day Jesus resurrected.
This was changed by man...but based on what they (the Apostles and those that followed) believed to be a reason that would be acceptable to God.

Jesus is not our rest.
He rose on a Sunday...the first day.
It is to commemorate/remember this resurrection which proved that Jesus is God.
Jesus said that the Sabbath is for mean...not V V.

Been through this many times Sabbathblessing...
Maybe it's just difficult to change what we're brought up with...
maybe Sunday is just a habit that cannot be broken.
Maybe we pick and choose verses that we agree with...
I'm not sure about this, and not dogmatic about it and so dislike
discussing it too much.


Understood.
But the Sunday worshippers believe they are hearing the voice of the same God.


I know that, at least some, SDA believe that all others are lost.
It's not in my vocabulary to declare who is saved and who is not.
I've been told a few times now that I'm lost and do not understand Christianity
and that I'm going to hell (this only a few hours ago) because I believe in obeying God
as a must.
God will have to decide.
I will say that I don't believe correct doctrine is what will save us...
but then we'll be back at the beginning of this post of yours.

Well, there is nothing in Scripture that says the Sabbath with all the power from God of His Blessing and Sanctification was transferred to another day. We are told instead not to edit God's commandments Deut4:2 Ecc3:14 not a jot or tittle Mat5:18-19 because who has more authority than God? No one. God said what He meant and even wrote it out. Jesus who is God never came to change God's commandments- He is LORD of the Sabbath day and said it was made for man Mark2:27-28 that's very far from transferring the Sabbath to a day God made for works and labors. What's the point of being LORD of something if it doesn't exist. Jesus was with the apostles and disciples 40 days after His resurrection- show me where Jesus told anyone of this change? Show me where the apostles say we now "worship on Sunday" because of the resurrection or where they did so because of it. None of this is found in our Bibles, they all kept faithfully the Sabbath Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 17:2 Acts 18:4 just as Jesus indicated Isa56:6-7 Mat24:20 Isa66:22-23 because we can't edit the commandments of God- He plainly said not to. This places oneself above Him instead of being His servant that He invited everyone Isa56:6

The change from Sabbath to Sunday came long after Scripture and it is well documented as we are warned. Dan7:25


Only God knows who is saved and lost but we have are plainly warning not to follow in the same rebellion and disobedience of a whole generation who was left out of their promised rest/land for disobeying this same commandment, Seems silly not to take the warning serious, but we are granted free will. I guess we can always hope for a different result.

 

[Toknow]

No mystery. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Faith doesn't come by believing. Otherwise, Romans 10:17 would say faith comes by believing.

Like you said Cameron....
we're speaking two different languages.

If you're unable to make someone understand what you believe...
it means you don't really understand it.

I know this for sure....

 

[SabbathBlessing]

He was also a Jew, living in Israel under the Old Covenant.

He is our Savior who is our example to follow who told us plainly to do His sayings Mat5:19-30 Luke6:46-48

This is always such a sad argument reducing Jesus to only being good for what He can do for us when He lived to show us how to live righteously 1John2:6 1Peter 2:21-22 Heb4:15 and whose words we are to live by Mat4:4

He tells us everything we need to know, its not that He was not clear, the issue is the same as those who came before us. Heb3:7-19

 

[Toknow]

Well, there is nothing in Scripture that says the Sabbath with all the power from God of His Blessing and Sanctification was transferred to another day. We are told instead not to edit God's commandments Deut4:2 Ecc3:14 not a jot or tittle Mat5:18-19 because who has more authority than God? No one. God said what He meant and even wrote it out. Jesus who is God never came to change God's commandments- He is LORD of the Sabbath day and said it was made for man Mark2:27-28 that's very far from transferring the Sabbath to a day God made for works and labors. What's the point of being LORD of something if it doesn't exist. Jesus was with the apostles and disciples 40 days after His resurrection- show me where Jesus told anyone of this change? Show me where the apostles say we now "worship on Sunday" because of the resurrection or where they did so because of it. None of this is found in our Bibles, they all kept faithfully the Sabbath Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 17:2 Acts 18:4 just as Jesus indicated Isa56:6-7 Mat24:20 Isa66:22-23 because we can't edit the commandments of God- He plainly said not to. This places oneself above Him instead of being His servant that He invited everyone Isa56:6

The change from Sabbath to Sunday came long after Scripture and it is well documented as we are warned. Dan7:25


Only God knows who is saved and lost but we have are plainly warning not to follow in the same rebellion and disobedience of a whole generation who was left out of their promised rest/land for disobeying this same commandment, Seems silly not to take the warning serious, but we are granted free will. I guess we can always hope for a different result.

I really do dislike debating this....
but
have you ever heard of the didache?
What do we make of that?
The Apostles taught othes what they knew.
Should we ignore these teachings?
Sunday was the day until Ellen White.
Could we trust the early church or not?
Should we trust someone from the 19th century more??

It's like OSAS....it's a new teaching.
Should we trust new teachings?

Works being filthy is a new teaching.
Should we trust new teachings?

We are now debating if faith means obedience.
Should we trust new teachings?


I think it will behoove us to move on and concentrate more
on what Jesus taught as to our behavior and what is necessary
for salvation.

I don't believe the day we worship will decide the fate of our soul...
but I will respect your understanding of this with all my heart.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I really do dislike debating this....
but
have you ever heard of the didache?
What do we make of that?
The Apostles taught othes what they knew.
Should we ignore these teachings?
Sunday was the day until Ellen White.
Could we trust the early church or not?
Should we trust someone from the 19th century more??

It's like OSAS....it's a new teaching.
Should we trust new teachings?

Works being filthy is a new teaching.
Should we trust new teachings?

We are now debating if faith means obedience.
Should we trust new teachings?


I think it will behoove us to move on and concentrate more
on what Jesus taught as to our behavior and what is necessary
for salvation.

I don't believe the day we worship will decide the fate of our soul...
but I will respect your understanding of this with all my heart.

This is what I make of it:

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

When Jesus asked of His soon return, the first thing He said is that many would come in His name to deceive us. If its not in the Bible we don't want it.

The path is narrow and not everyone finds it - its the same story repeating itself, people want all of God's blessings on their terms not God's Isa56:2 they want to serve the LORD on their terms not God's Isa56:6 He tells us everything we need to know, the entire Bible is about the testimony of God through His prophets and apostles John5:29 but when it comes to God's own personally written and spoken Testimony that He said do not edit Exo31:18NKJV I mean who can edit God? Sadly many don't believe and instead follow what is popular in the world Col2:8 Mat15:3-14 - lets not let anyone cheat us out of the blessing and sanctification God is trying to give us because we can't transfer it, we can do this ourselves Isa66:17 we need God. Eze20:20

Please consider this in prayer my friend. I appreciate the friendly dicussion.

God bless.

 

[Roger316]

Some might obey God out of love....
some out of fear....

but obedience is necessary,.....whatever the reason for it,
God will respect it.

That isn't true. The idea that “obedience is obedience, whatever the motive, and God respects it” is not just shallow; it’s biblically false and logically incoherent.

Scripture never treats all obedience as equal. The Bible distinguishes sharply between:

• obedience that flows from love
• obedience that flows from fear
• obedience that is merely external
• obedience that is hypocritical
• obedience that is self‑righteous
• obedience that is manipulative
• obedience that is coerced

Jesus condemns entire categories of “obedience”:

• “This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.”
• “You tithe mint and dill… but neglect justice and mercy.”
• “You clean the outside of the cup…”
• “Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees…”

If all obedience were acceptable “whatever the reason,” Jesus would never say these things.

Obedience without love is not righteousness -- it's compliance

Fear‑based obedience is not moral transformation.
It’s behavioral management.

It produces:

• resentment
• self‑righteousness
• anxiety
• hypocrisy
• spiritual exhaustion

It does not produce Christlikeness.

The New Covenant is explicitly about heart transformation, not external conformity. If the heart is unchanged, the “obedience” is not the thing God is after.

Obedience from fear is the obedience of slaves. Paul makes this distinction explicit:

• “You did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear.”
• “But the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry, ‘Abba! Father!’”

Fear‑based obedience belongs to the old covenant, not the new. God does not “respect” obedience that comes from the wrong covenantal posture.

The Motive is part of the moral act. This is a crucial philosophical point. A moral act is not defined only by the external behavior.

It includes:

• the intention
• the desire
• the will
• the love (or lack of it) behind the act

If someone “obeys” God in order to:

• avoid punishment
• gain leverage
• earn favor
• look righteous
• manipulate outcomes

That is not obedience.
It is self‑interest wearing religious clothing.

God does not respect that.
Jesus explicitly condemns it.

True obedience flows from Love. Paul says: "Love is the fulfillment of the Law."

Not fear.
Not compliance.
Not external conformity.

Love.

This is why Jesus says: “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.”

He does not say:

“If you fear me…”
“If you want to avoid punishment…”
“If you want to earn my respect…”

Love is the engine of obedience. Fear may produce behavior, but it cannot produce righteousness. Obedience is not morally neutral. God does not respect obedience that comes from fear, manipulation, self‑righteousness, or external compliance. In the New Covenant, true obedience flows from love, trust, and a transformed heart. Anything less may look like obedience on the outside, but it is not the righteousness God desires.

Please explain the difference between DOING a commandment and KEEPING a commandment.

The meaning of the word "keep" is similar to that of a "keepsake". The word “keep” in Scripture (tēreō in Greek, shamar in Hebrew) already carries the semantic field of cherishing, guarding, treasuring, protecting. That’s exactly what we do with a keepsake. I would argue that keeping a law shares the same inner posture as keeping a keepsake.

I don't believe wer'e supposed to agree with God's commandments.
Are we to keep only the commandments we agree with??
I'm sorry, I'm not understanding...I don't think this is what you mean.
We only keep the commandments that have value for us?

The main issue is the inner posture. Remember when Paul said that a Jew is one inwardly? He was noting the difference between a man who is circumcised on the outside with a man who is circumcised on the inside. So, when Jesus talks about keeping his commandments, he isn't talking about obeying his rules; he is talking about remembering, valuing, guarding, and preserving his teaching.

 

[Roger316]

God gave the context so we don't have to. God's Truth is just that, it stays that way because it came from God.

Okay, I understand the value of quoting single verses in order to save time. But I wouldn't expect my readers to make the connections between the passages and my position. We can't expect everyone to agree with our interpretations of the passages.

 

[studier]

The gospel demands a response and so when someone hears the gospel and believes it, they are obeying the gospel. This idea isn't about keeping the rules. It's about accepting and agreeing with the truth.

Sorry, I don't even know what this means. It reads like an argument against obey God.

I've been saying for many years that Rom10:16 at minimum says believing the gospel is obeying the gospel, so we actually begin our spiritual life with an act of believing explained as obeying.

Then, when we look at all the other language, parallelisms, epexegetical structures an language in Scripture re: faith and obedience, our entire walk in Christ in Spirit is one of faith-obedience - different words describing one functional reality in our relationship with God.

Of course God has rules for His Children let alone His entire Creation. It numbs my mind to read anything that remotely suggests that He doesn't.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I really do dislike debating this....
but
have you ever heard of the didache?
What do we make of that?
The Apostles taught othes what they knew.
Should we ignore these teachings?
Sunday was the day until Ellen White.
Could we trust the early church or not?
Should we trust someone from the 19th century more??

It's like OSAS....it's a new teaching.
Should we trust new teachings?

Works being filthy is a new teaching.
Should we trust new teachings?

We are now debating if faith means obedience.
Should we trust new teachings?


I think it will behoove us to move on and concentrate more
on what Jesus taught as to our behavior and what is necessary
for salvation.

I don't believe the day we worship will decide the fate of our soul...
but I will respect your understanding of this with all my heart.

I would be happy to go by verse by verse on the Scriptures the apostles spoke of the first day. Most were historical passages relating to Jesus resting on the Sabbath day in His tomb and rising back to work on the first day. The first thing we see after the death of Christ is His faithful followers who followed Him everywhere keeping the Sabbath according to the commandment Luke23:56. This was the first person Jesus saw- if there was a change why did He not correct them? Because He already promised the Sabbath would not end at the Cross Mat24:20 or ever Isa66:22-23

There is a one time meeting late what we call Saturday night, what the Bible considers the first day. They came together to have a meal, which they did daily, because Paul was leaving on a long mission trip the next morning - he would be gone for years. It says nothing about worshipping together because of the resurrection. This was a one time meeting 30+ years after the death of Christ and the apostles were all proclaimed servants of God Rom1:1 not His corrector and a servant serves the way the master asks Isa56:6 because the servant is not greater than their master. John13:16 because than they wouldn't really be a servant.

The second time day 1 is mentioned is about a 1 time collection at home for the needy. Nothing about changing one of God's commandments.

Our church has meetings on all kinds of days, it doesn't mean it starts changing God's commandments because they belong to God Exo20:6 and no man is greater.

Paul as his custom followed Jesus

Acts 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures

Luke 4:16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. (Isaiah)

The Sabbath is the only day God named and He called it the Sabbath of the LORD thy God Exo20:10 the holy day of the LORD Isa58:13 I do not change Mal 3:6 meaning there is no other just a counterfeit Dan7:25