Loss of salvation???

[Magenta]

You also have a tendency to say things that are incorrect and when I counter you you go silent about them and move on without ever acknowledging they're not true.

 

[legion]

Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!

Rather than toss scripture out which ultimately doesnt prove the answer one way or the other, I would answer that like this:

1. The bible is not explicit in giving an answer. Only that if you are striving in your walk there are gonna be failures. Sin doesnt erase true salvation.

2. LOSS isn't possible on accident, however, salvation is a gift given by grace through faith. Take away grace and faith and then deliberately throwing away the gift, which is exactly what an apostate does. God isn't going to force himself on you. He already knows the outcome.

If I turn on God, because i either ignorantly blame him for some tragedy, or because i just dont like being saved. I then toss his gift, give him the apostate. become sladerous to him, as well as start my own satanic movement, working against him I will have apostated.

In such a circumstance it would be silly to allow me the bennifit if salvation, clearly I tried it and rejected it.

The apostate mentioned in Heb 6.4-5 who have tasted the fruit... have no sacrifice to make any longer.

I know there are differing interpretations of the Hebrews verse, but even so.

So in my view, you can't loose it, but you can throw it away.... God isn't going to force you into it.

Also note that there will be people sent to hell. Those who reject christ... it doesn't say "only those who are unsaved" but "those who reject..."

 

[Toknow]

Rather than toss scripture out which ultimately doesnt prove the answer one way or the other, I would answer that like this:

1. The bible is not explicit in giving an answer. Only that if you are striving in your walk there are gonna be failures. Sin doesnt erase true salvation.

2. LOSS isn't possible on accident, however, salvation is a gift given by grace through faith. Take away grace and faith and then deliberately throwing away the gift, which is exactly what an apostate does. God isn't going to force himself on you. He already knows the outcome.

If I turn on God, because i either ignorantly blame him for some tragedy, or because i just dont like being saved. I then toss his gift, give him the apostate. become sladerous to him, as well as start my own satanic movement, working against him I will have apostated.

In such a circumstance it would be silly to allow me the bennifit if salvation, clearly I tried it and rejected it.

The apostate mentioned in Heb 6.4-5 who have tasted the fruit... have no sacrifice to make any longer.

I know there are differing interpretations of the Hebrews verse, but even so.

So in my view, you can't loose it, but you can throw it away.... God isn't going to force you into it.

Also note that there will be people sent to hell. Those who reject christ... it doesn't say "only those who are unsaved" but "those who reject..."

Well said !

Jesus said HE is the good shepherd.
He has sheep that are in His fold.
He protects them and they hear His voice and do as He says.
Every shepherd has a specific way that he trains his sheep to answer his call.
The sheep will be safe for as long as they REMAIN IN THE FOLD....if they WANDER OFF, they become isolated
and can actually end up dead.

Just like those that leave the fold of the good shepherd.

It's never Jesus that leaves a person...
it's always the person that leaves Jesus.

This is why the scrputure used at times by those that believe OSAS is incorrect...
they say nothing can take one away from the hand of Jesus....John 10:28
correct.

But they can walk out of their own free will.

 

[Toknow]

Posting Strong's numbers isn't an argument. Strong's is a glossary, not a grammar & it doesn't make apeitheia & apistia identical - it actually confirms they're 2 different nouns with 2 different meanings. That's the point you still haven't addressed. You also haven't shown from Heb 3:18-19 why the author uses 2 different summary terms if he meant definitional identity. Claiming I ""never replied"" to every verse you carpet bombed with doesn't correct anything. If you want to engage the text itself, I'm here for that. If you want to keep shifting to Rom 11 & Col 1 to avoid Heb 3, that says enough by itself.

As I said FlyingDove...
I know very well what Strong's is....
but someone on here brought up the meaning of words in
Hebrews 3:12, 18 and 19.

You are stating that the words used in Hebrews 3:18 and 19 are different words and that Paul used them for a reason.

So THIS is what is under discussion.
Not strong's....which will be used in this case because it does TRANSLATE Greek words and the grammar here, it seems to me, is not all important and I'll state why.

Hebrews 3, 12 and 19 uses the word APISTIA Strong's no. 570 which basically means UNBELIEVING.
Hebrews 3, 18 uses the word APEITHEO Strong's no. 544 which basically means DISOBEDIENT.

What we need to take notice of, here, is that whichever word Paul uses (or any writer) the outcome will be the same.
Either DISBELIEVING or DISOBEYING will result in a person being lost because to be saved one must
BELIEVE and OBEY....

Which is what I've been stating since I started posting on this forum.
In order for a person to be saved they must:

1. BELIEVE IN GOD. IN God.
2. OBEY GOD.

If one is UNBELIEVING - APISTIA - he is lost.
If one is DISOBEYING - APEITHEO - he is lost.

The Israelites did not enter because of DISBELIEF and DISOBEDIENCE.
The writer is showing that EITHER unbelief or disobedience will hold a person back from being with God.

The outcome was the same.
THEY DID NOT ENTER THE PROMISED LAND.

If a person disblieves he is lost.
If a person disobeys he is lost.


This is why the argument some make regarding the word OBEY in John 3:36 is irrelevant....
it can be changed to disbelieve and the outcome will be the same.
John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."


Once could change NOT OBEY to NOT BELIEVE,,,,
the outcome will be the same.

 

[Toknow]

Because man has a choice to either walk in faith, or to turn away from the Lord and not walk in faith.

I believe you're conflating a noun with a verb.

FAITH is a noun. It's a gift, but there are conditions...some are afraid to believe it's a gift due to calvinist theology.
WALKING IN FAITH is an action...it's a verb.

WALKING IN FAITH is a good work/deed.

If we do not WALK IN FAITH,,,,the gift of faith becomes useless.

No, but we either choose to submit to the Lord or turn away from the Lord.

Of course this is true.
But I say we cannot work for our salvation because this implies that ONLY work will get us saved...
it will NOT.

In order to be saved a person must first
BELIEVE IN GOD
then
HE MUST OBEY GOD.


A person could do all the good works they deem right...
but without faith they will not see God.
Works do not save.

James 4:7,8-10
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

There's a lot of directives in the New Covenant telling us to abide IN Him. Such as:

Ephesians 5:1
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Ephesians 4:22-24
put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 13:14
put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him:

2 Corinthians 6:17
come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

You won't get any argument from me!
But this happens after justification/after salvation.

Which is something we either choose to walk in or choose to not walk in.

Replied to above.

It is one of the good works we have been ordained by God to walk in

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 2:10 is still true and it's going anywhere no matter who tries to claim it's not true.




Which choose to walk in faith abiding IN Christ is a gigantic part of.

Agreed.

And yet is is because man has the ability and responsibility to choose to walk in faith.

Those choosing to not walk in faith are now doing evil works.

Again...you're conflating the noun FAITH
with the verb WALKING IN FAITH, which is a good work/deed.
Please think this over.

Then you should stop saying walking in the gift of faith the Lord gave us is not a good work because it is.

I cannot stop saying something that is true.
Ephesians 2:8 ALL THREE ARE GIFTS: GRACE, FAITH, SALVATION

This is the truth and cannot be changed.
Again
FAITH IS A GIFT which a person must want and receive.
WALKING IN FAITH is doing good work. It means we are obeying God and doing what FAITH leads us to do...
good works/deeds.

Which is why you should stop saying walking in the gift of faith the Lord gave us is not a good work because it is.

Not walking in faith is choosing to be faithless like doubting Thomas

I agree with your last sentence....

 

[studier]

Once could change NOT OBEY to NOT BELIEVE,,,,
the outcome will be the same.

What I hope to make clear is, from what I read, not obeying and not believing are interchangeable - different words - same effect/outcome.

If we want to see Jesus deal with disciples trying to separate them and make faith distinct from obedience, we can read very closely Luke17:1-10 (I'm assuming everyone has access to a Bible in some form) and see how Jesus does not allow the separation and makes obedience the issue.

NAS Luke 6:46 "And why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?​

​

We should read all of this section and note how Jesus is talking about producing good fruit, the good that's in men's hearts, coming to Jesus - listening to Him - doing what He says = building on a foundation of rock & not falling when disasters / tests hit.​

​

We should probably note that this is all in the context of calling Him Lord and doing what He says.​

​

IOW this is all about obeying Jesus Christ.​

​

IOW this is all about believing Jesus is the Christ.​

​

Same thing. Or, if we want to get technical about words - same difference.​

 

[Toknow]

You're mixing categories the NT keeps distinct. James, Paul, Jesus & the writer of Heb all use faith, works, obedience, fruit, sanctification & justification in different ways for different purposes. When you collapse them, you end up with a salvation that depends on human performance instead of Christ's finished work.

Actually I do believe that our performance is salvific.
Jesus said we must DO...we must ACT on His words.
This goes beyond BELIEVING JESUS....
it means we BELIEVE IN JESUS.

You know Greek...do I need to explain the difference?

Perhaps the reason YOU see this as a "collapse" is because you do not accept that our performance/behavior has any bearing on our salvation.

Faith alone does not function.

I asked you and I don't believe you replied (might be wrong - I saw last night a reply of yours that I had missed)
but let's go through this:

I asked if Jesus taught that we are to love our neighbor.

I'm sure you're reply would be a resounding YES.
in fact, Jesus DID teach that we are to love our neighbor.

Jesus has just added something to faith alone: love

So,,,faith alone cannot be alone. If we add something to faith...it is no longer faith alone...
but faith plus something...and Jesus adds a lot of conditons/pluses.

James 2 is not defining justification before God, it's exposing dead, non‑saving profession. That's why James says, Show me your faith. It's horizontal, demonstrative & about the visibility of faith, not the basis of salvation. Paul addresses how we are saved; James addresses what genuine faith produces. 2 different questions, 2 different contexts, 2 different uses of JUSTIFY.

OK
James shows what genuine faith produces.
It produces WORKS.
Faith without works is DEAD.
Only a faith that is alive witih works is valid to God.

Faith without works is a dead faith.

Also, what are these words that some add??
TRUE BELIEVER
GENUINE FAITH

Doesn't BELIEVER mean anything anymore?
Doesn't FAITH mean anything anymore?
We have to quality it now?

A believer is a believer.
Faith is faith.

This is just a trick maneuver that some use to try to make scripture say something it is not saying.
Some on these threads will say BUT HE IS NOT A REAL BELIEVER....to detract from the fact that a verse is using the word BELIEVER in a way that is contrary to their belief system, so , of course, we now must add a word and say that they are not a TRUE BELIEVER.

But the meaning of scrpture cannot be twisted so easily.

Rom 6 is not a warning about losing justification. Paul assumes the believer is already united with Christ (6:5), freed from sin's penalty (6:7) & alive to God (6:11). He's describing the walk, not the foundation. If Rom 6 taught loss of salvation, Paul would contradict Romans 5:1, 5:9, 8:1 & 8:30, all of which explicitly deny it.

Did I mention Romans 6?
YOU brought up Romans 6 and I just pointed out that you ignored Romans 6.13 and on.
You were making the point that we are under grace and it sounded like you were saying that even if we sin, it matters not.
Will not go back to check.

I would never use Romans 6 in regards to forfeiture of salvation....
although is we do go on sinning...it is disobedience and disobedience will cause a fall from God's grace.

Rom 11 is not about individual salvation. It's about corporate Israel & Gentile inclusion in the covenant program. ""Cut off"" refers to removal from privilege & position, not loss of salvation. Paul says the Gentiles ""stand by faith,"" not by works & the warning is against arrogance, not against losing justification.

I use Romans 11 because it speaks about UNBELIEF.
Unbelief,,,at any time,,,will cause a branch to be cut off.
Disobedience will cause a branch to be cut off.
Unfruitfulness will cause a branch to be cut off.

Paul is confirming what Jesus taught about branches being cut off.

John 15:2
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;

Col 1:23 is a perseverance text, not a conditional security text. Paul is saying, Those who truly believe continue. He is not saying, If you don't continue, you lose justification. The NT never teaches that regeneration, sealing, union with Christ & the indwelling Spirit can be undone. Perseverance is the evidence of salvation, not the condition of keeping it.

IF is a conditional word.

How does a person know that they will persevere till the end?
They cannot know.

Paul is saying IF WE CONTINUE in our faith, we will be saved.

Colossians 1:21-23
21Once you were alienated from God and were hostile in your minds, engaging in evil deeds.
22But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence—
23if indeed you continue in your faith,

If is strong here. IF INDEED.....
We will be presented holy and blameless...
IF INDEED sets a condition.
The condition is continuing in the faith.

IF we continue in the faith....
we will be presented holy and blameless.

Matthew 7 is about discipleship, not justification. The house falls because it had no foundation (7:24–27). Jesus defines the foundation as hearing & believing His words, not performing them. Paul says the foundation is Christ alone (1 Cor 3:11). Obedience builds wisely on the foundation; it does not create it.

What does ACT mean?
In any language.
It means DOING SOMETHING...
in this case Jesus is saying that we have to ACT/DO what He taught.




Matthew 7:26-27
26But everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
27The rain fell, the torrents raged, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell—and great was its collapse!”


The foolish man built his house on sand.
Why? What caused his house to be built on sand?


And you continue to state that acting/obeying Jesus is nowhere to be found in the NT....
You are teaching heresy.

1 Cor 3:15 still destroys your system. Paul says a believer's entire life's work can burn up, he himself will be saved. If salvation depends on obedience, this verse cannot exist.

I don't have a system.
You seem to have a system and project it onto others.

Study up on 1 Cor 3:15
It's rather pitiful that you don't undersand what it's speaking of with your supposed intellect.

Faith and obedience are not identical. If Paul meant obedience is faith, he wouldn't use two different nouns hypakoē & pistis in a genitive construction that grammatically requires a source result relationship. Obedience that comes from faith is the only reading that fits Paul's argument in Rom 1–5.

Enough of this nonsense.

If one does not believe he is lost.
If one does not obey he is lost.

Same outcome...
no matter which word is used.

Jesus Himself says unbelief, not insufficient obedience, is what dooms a person. Jn 8:24: If you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins. Not: If you do not obey enough.

Please find two or three other verses where you think Jesus does not demand obedience...
John 8:24 will not work for you.

It's just stating that we have to believe that Jesus is the Messiah/God and we must BELIEVE in Him as Savior.

What does BELIEVE mean?

And a Spirit sealed believer cannot return to unbelief, because God Himself keeps, indwells & guarantees the final redemption of those He saves (Eph 1:13–14, 4:30, John 6:39, 10:28–29, 1 Pet 1:5).

If Jesus accepts the sinner, the Father seals the sinner & the Spirit indwells the sinner, the only way that sinner could be lost is if the Trinity fails & the Trinity does not fail.

What does seal mean?
Have you studied any church history?

I'm beginning to doubt your intellect FlyingDove.

If you have something specific you'd wish to address, I'm willing...
otherwise I'm done here.

You speak just as those that have not studied the NT and twist the scriptures to suit their own needs.

 

[HeIsHere]

Both - Calvin vs. others.

They made a shift to make it more palatable some time back.

 

[HeIsHere]

You're mixing categories the NT keeps distinct. James, Paul, Jesus & the writer of Heb all use faith, works, obedience, fruit, sanctification & justification in different ways for different purposes. When you collapse them, you end up with a salvation that depends on human performance instead of Christ's finished work.

Yes, this false doctrine of a "losable salvation" depends upon conflating concepts over and over again.

 

[HeIsHere]

Actually I do believe that our performance is salvific.

Good luck then.

 

[Toknow]

What I hope to make clear is, from what I read, not obeying and not believing are interchangeable - different words - same effect/outcome.

If we want to see Jesus deal with disciples trying to separate them and make faith distinct from obedience, we can read very closely Luke17:1-10 (I'm assuming everyone has access to a Bible in some form) and see how Jesus does not allow the separation and makes obedience the issue.

NAS Luke 6:46 "And why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?​

​

We should read all of this section and note how Jesus is talking about producing good fruit, the good that's in men's hearts, coming to Jesus - listening to Him - doing what He says = building on a foundation of rock & not falling when disasters / tests hit.​

​

We should probably note that this is all in the context of calling Him Lord and doing what He says.​

​

IOW this is all about obeying Jesus Christ.​

​

IOW this is all about believing Jesus is the Christ.​

​

Same thing. Or, if we want to get technical about words - same difference.​

Agreed 100%
No matter which word is used:
APISTIA
APEITHEO

The outcome is the same.
No entry.


It seems to me that we should be concerned with the outcome...
and not which word is used, except for very specific reasons.

The other member is not attempting to post a specific reason but just keeps saying that he words are different.

To the lost person....the nuance in the word used will be of no assistance.

 

[Toknow]

Good luck then.

It's a good idea to ACT as Jesus says we should.

He said so Himself.

I like to be like the wise man who ACTED on the words of Jesus.

Matthew 7:24-26
24Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25The rain fell, the torrents raged, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because its foundation was on the rock.


IF we ACT on the words of Jesus...
we are building our house on a foundation of rock....Jesus is the rock.

If we do not obey/act on the words of Jesus...
we are building on sand.
And the house will fall....
Matthew 7:27

 

[HeIsHere]

It's a good idea to ACT as Jesus says we should.

He said so Himself.

I like to be like the wise man who ACTED on the words of Jesus.

Matthew 7:24-26
24Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25The rain fell, the torrents raged, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because its foundation was on the rock.


IF we ACT on the words of Jesus...
we are building our house on a foundation of rock....Jesus is the rock.

If we do not obey/act on the words of Jesus...
we are building on sand.
And the house will fall....
Matthew 7:27

Justification is not in view.

 

[Toknow]

Well, I noticed you joined in 2024, you might of missed some heated debates. I would encourage you to join the chatrooms, and see how taboo OSAS is in there,

Sounds like there are very intelligent persons in the chatroom.
OSAS is not only taboo,,,it's a heretical teaching.

Do we all know what heretical means?

you may have a revelation. Armenians aren't yelling, they are just Armenian. lol I will leave it, on that note.

I think I'm just a little astonished, that you quickly minimized my view points as Reformed, literally never heard it explained the way, I just did....EVER! I would dare you to find a quote, that explained the topic the exact same way, I did, because I want to know why I haven't heard it before. lol

Anyways, carry on.........

View attachment 287141

 

[Toknow]

Justification is not in view.

Don't know what you mean....
don't really care.

Jesus is TEACHING something...
and you seem to want to change what He's teaching.

 

[Toknow]

I'm gonna take my stab on this hot topic of a discussion. I'm not an authority, this is just my understanding. Right or wrong, this is how I see it.

I don't think it's possible to lose your salvation, nor am I saying, that the elect have a license to sin. I think the key point is, that no one really knows that they are saved, until judgement day. If the elect were chosen, before the foundation of the world, how can it be that the someone will lose their salvation? You are either saved by grace, or not.

Does not God know, who HIS people are? Let me add some verses here..

John 10:28
28And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Ephesians 1
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. 4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One.

Matthew 7
21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

Matthew 22
11But when the king came in to see the guests, he spotted a man who was not dressed in wedding clothes. 12‘Friend,’ he asked, ‘how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’

But the man was speechless.

13Then the king told the servants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

14For many are called, but few are chosen.”

Revelation 14
12Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints, who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Ecclesiastes 12
13When all has been heard, the conclusion of the matter is this: Fear God and keep His commandments, because this is the whole duty of man. 14For God will bring every deed into judgment, along with every hidden thing, whether good or evil.

Hi Kinda....
Sorry I fell on this when replying to a member.

It does indeed sound reformed.

But the reason I'm writing to you is that the unquestionable end result of OSAS is the belief that one can sin and still be saved.
This is plainly stated many times on these forums...maybe you missed it.

It is plainly stated that obedience to God is not necessary.

A member just told me, right now (scroll up) GOOD LUCK because I stated that we are required to ACT on the words of Jesus...on what He taught.

OSAS is a doctrine that will lead many straight to hell due to disobedience and God will not tolerate disobedience.

You ask if God knows His?
Of course. God knows everything that will happen in the future.
Knowledge is not determinism.

Even after salvation...man retains the free will to abandon God whenever he wishes to.

As to knowing only at the end of life if one is saved or not.....
this is correct.

Why? Exactly because we cannot know IF we will ENDURE till the end.
Thankfully for us...it is dependant on our will as to whether or not we wish to be saved.

This idea of yours of not knowing till the end does go against the grain of reformed theology GENERALLY speaking...
However, John Calvin did teach that God does pull the rug from under a believer at times.

If you need the book and chapter and paragraph, I'll be happy to look it up.
But you may not need it.

 

[HeIsHere]

Don't know what you mean....
don't really care.

Jesus is TEACHING something...
and you seem to want to change what He's teaching.

So you are telling me you are unable to identify what is being addressed in the passage.

So it would seem truth is low on your list then, I often wonder if you returned to continue your campaign of projecting worry and anxiety for those weak in the faith.

To those new to the faith what she is promoting is a very false doctrine.

It is really sad how you manage to garner so much attention with all your drama.

 

[HeIsHere]

OSAS is a doctrine that will lead many straight to hell due to disobedience and God will not tolerate disobedience.

False.

 

[Musicmaster]

Rather than toss scripture out which ultimately doesnt prove the answer one way or the other, I would answer that like this:

1. The bible is not explicit in giving an answer. Only that if you are striving in your walk there are gonna be failures. Sin doesnt erase true salvation.

2. LOSS isn't possible on accident, however, salvation is a gift given by grace through faith. Take away grace and faith and then deliberately throwing away the gift, which is exactly what an apostate does. God isn't going to force himself on you. He already knows the outcome.

If I turn on God, because i either ignorantly blame him for some tragedy, or because i just dont like being saved. I then toss his gift, give him the apostate. become sladerous to him, as well as start my own satanic movement, working against him I will have apostated.

In such a circumstance it would be silly to allow me the bennifit if salvation, clearly I tried it and rejected it.

The apostate mentioned in Heb 6.4-5 who have tasted the fruit... have no sacrifice to make any longer.

I know there are differing interpretations of the Hebrews verse, but even so.

So in my view, you can't loose it, but you can throw it away.... God isn't going to force you into it.

Also note that there will be people sent to hell. Those who reject christ... it doesn't say "only those who are unsaved" but "those who reject..."

That's all rationalizations and misrepresentations rather than scripture itself, AND within context. To claim scripture doesn't answer the question for an alleged loss or tossing aside of salvation, that's more a claim for not knowing the scriptures rather than answering the question FROM scripture.

Who have you ever known that tossed it aside? All the hypotheticals I've seen people try to use as proof for their beliefs, it's all nonsense.

MM

 

[Toknow]

So you are telling me you are unable to identify what is being addressed in the passage.

So it would seem truth is low on your list then, I often wonder if you returned to continue your campaign of projecting worry and anxiety for those weak in the faith.

To those new to the faith what she is promoting is a very false doctrine.

It is really sad how you manage to garner so much attention with all your drama.

How about this:
Post the verse and then explain what it means.

Those new to the faith should know that God loves them and has saved them
but He demands respect and obedience.

if a person does not obey God...he will return to the condition he was in before.

Those who teach will be held to a higher standard.

Telling those weak in the faith (assuming they are weak in the faith - something YOU cannot know)
that everything is OK and God loves them no matter what is doing them a DISSERVICE that could cost them
THEIR SOUL.

OSAS is a false doctrine.

You don't think it is?

Prove it.