Loss of salvation???

[Toknow]

You also seem to interpret the words differently, even the verses posted.
That is, you hear them differently.

This is the problem with Chritianity these days Mem
We're reading the same bible....
but arriving at different conclusions.

What to do to retain this marvelous RELIGION of ours.
Yes, religion.
Faith is personal.
But the Christian religion must also be retained/maintained/protected.

 

[Mem]

This is the problem with Chritianity these days Mem
We're reading the same bible....
but arriving at different conclusions.

What to do to retain this marvelous RELIGION of ours.
Yes, religion.
Faith is personal.
But the Christian religion must also be retained/maintained/protected.

Paul, after encountering the real God while he was following who he thought God was, asked, "What should I do, Lord?" and was told, "Get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do." There was no reference to the 10 commandments offered there.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Your reference and exodus is to the Israelites not to the Gentiles and also not after the crucifixion using the Old Testament to defend something in the New Testament is a minefield since the law has changed and there is no Mosaic Covenant

I am not quoting the Mosaic covenant, I am quoting the law of God. Exo20:6 Exo20:1-17 A covenant is an agreement. The law of God is just that it belongs to God and its His standard of righteousness Psa119:172 Isa56:1-2 which is from everlasting to everlasting Psa 119:142 why it is in both agreements, God shows no partiality Rom2:11 the agreement is established on better promises Heb8:6 not new or better laws Heb8:10, because doing justice and righteousness is the foundation of His throne Psa89:14 and at the end we are either overcoming and doing what is right according to the LORD or still doing evil. Rev22:11 when He comes our decisions we make will be sealed, why today we have time to hear His voice and come out of our rebellion to Him which is sin, unbelief and disobedience all used interchangeable. Heb3:7-19

God has a people, sadly just a remnant ,who overcomes and keep the commandments of God and faith and testimony of Jesus Rev12:17 Rev14:12. He calls all but sadly many choose to serve the LORD according to their will instead of how God asks Isa56:6.

 

[GWH]

I don't know about the last trumpet.
Never studied Revelation and never will.
Too many different understandings...not literal....there is very little there of any real use.

I explained 1 Cor 15:51 and 1 Thess 4:17
We will be "caught up" but at the end of the world.

It would be up to YOU now to explain where you believe it is speaking about a rapture.
You'd have to show how Jesus comes back two times and not only one time.

The rapture is a new teaching in the church.
I find that new teachings are never correct.

The modern, popular doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture—where believers are taken to heaven before a seven-year tribulation—was first widely taught in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby, a leader in the Plymouth Brethren movement. While some earlier, vague mentions of similar ideas exist, Darby solidified it into a complete theological system that spread to America.
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• Origin: Darby developed the idea around 1827-1830, separating the Rapture from the final Second Coming of Jesus.
• Influence: Margaret MacDonald, a Scottish woman, is sometimes cited as having a prophetic vision in 1830 that influenced the development of the idea.
• Popularity: The teaching was later popularized in the early 20th century through the Scofield Reference Bible and gained further mainstream attention through the Left Behind series.
• Historical View: For most of church history, the concept of a secret, pre-tribulation removal of the church was not part of mainstream theology, with most holding to a post-tribulation perspective.
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The concept is based on interpretations of 1 Thessalonians 4:17, which describes believers being "caught up" to meet Jesus in the air.


source: Gemini

The trumpet is also cited in 1Thes. 4:16.
I am leading a study of Rev. in the thread "How do angels jibe with the Holy Spirit".
I will summarize its real use when we get to the end.

Your explanation of 1 Thes. 4:17, that "we will be caught up at the end of the world"
left out half of the verse, "we who are still alive and are left". Would you like to explain that?

And then would you like to explain 1 Cor. 15:51 without omitting anything?

I have no idea why you think the correct explanations involve Jesus returning twice.
If you want to omit anything, ignore Darby.

Over...

 

[Toknow]

Paul, after encountering the real God while he was following who he thought God was, asked, "What should I do, Lord?" and was told, "Get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do." There was no reference to the 10 commandments offered there.

Hmmm.
But I think Paul knew about them anyway.
See what I mean?
It's like we're reading two different books.

He did go on to write about how to get saved, BTW.
Seems to me that he spoke about BELIEVING....
the type that was practiced at the time...not believe like we mean today...
and
how to behave.

But that's in the book I'm reading.
May not be in yours.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Don't project your words onto me lest you be found false.



Romans 3:23-31 KJV
23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29) Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30) Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The Law is established by faith because we are justified by faith, and not by works of Law. This establishes the fact that the Law truly does condemn all, and the only way to salvation is justification by faith.


We? Do you mean yourself? Do you suppose there are passages in opposition to each other? We can look at others if you wish.

Much love!

What does true faith look like:

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going

Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

The faith part is what saves, the action that follows faith proves if our faith is genuine or not. Any one can say LORD LORD- He is looking for doers of His word, not just hearers. James 1:22-24 Mat7:21-23 Luke6:46-48

I guess we shall find out soon enough, but I do not understand why we are arguing against what God asks us to do if we love Him Exo20:6 John14:15 Rev14:12

 

[Toknow]

The trumpet is also cited in 1Thes. 4:16.
I am leading a study of Rev. in the thread "How do angels jibe with the Holy Spirit".
I will summarize its real use when we get to the end.

Your explanation of 1 Thes. 4:17, that "we will be caught up at the end of the world"
left out half of the verse, "we who are still alive and are left". Would you like to explain that?

At the end of the world....some will have died already.
Some will still be alive.
Those that are still alive will be caught up,,,which is what raptured means.

And then would you like to explain 1 Cor. 15:51 without omitting anything?

What did I omit??
You don't mention it.

I have no idea why you think the correct explanations involve Jesus returning twice.
If you want to omit anything, ignore Darby.

Over...

Because Jesus would have to come back 2X.
Once to get the saved persons so as to avoid the tribulation...
and then again at the end of the world.

HOW does scripture show that Jesus is coming back 2X and not just once??

 

[JayWalker]

Your link doesn't work. What does it say?
Gal 2:18
Those attempting to keep the law, prove themselves to be lawless.

The link I posted for your further spiritual growth and exhortation does works just fine and it says

1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

 

[legion]

Right.
The other member speaks in a confusing way.
He says we are to obey God.
But not really.

As to the Law...
Right...we are not under THE LAW.
We are under the Law of Christ and even this law requires obedience
but I think you agree.

I do and that obedience is simply thus love God and love your neighbor that is the simplicity of the New Covenant

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I do and that obedience is simply thus love God and love your neighbor that is the simplicity of the New Covenant

How does God tell us to love Him? Do we love Him based on what we feel or how He asks? Isn't that the point of love to please how the person that is telling us how to love Him in this case God.

 

[legion]

I am not quoting the Mosaic covenant, I am quoting the law of God. Exo20:6 Exo20:1-17 A covenant is an agreement. The law of God is just that it belongs to God and its His standard of righteousness Psa119:172 Isa56:1-2 which is from everlasting to everlasting Psa 119:142 why it is in both agreements, God shows no partiality Rom2:11 the agreement is established on better promises Heb8:6 not new or better laws Heb8:10, because doing justice and righteousness is the foundation of His throne Psa89:14 and at the end we are either overcoming and doing what is right according to the LORD or still doing evil. Rev22:11 when He comes our decisions we make will be sealed, why today we have time to hear His voice and come out of our rebellion to Him which is sin, unbelief and disobedience all used interchangeable. Heb3:7-19

God has a people, sadly just a remnant ,who overcomes and keep the commandments of God and faith and testimony of Jesus Rev12:17 Rev14:12. He calls all but sadly many choose to serve the LORD according to their will instead of how God asks Isa56:6.

You're playing a semantic game the first five books are considered the Torah the laws of Moses second I'm still not in Israelite the only thing cared forward from the Old Testament that applies to me are the nine Commandments we see repeated in the New Testament and since we have our Sabbath rest in Jesus we no longer have to quote quote keep the Sabbath

 

[Toknow]

What does true faith look like:

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going

Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

The faith part is what saves, the action that follows faith proves if our faith is genuine or not. Any one can say LORD LORD- He is looking for doers of His word, not just hearers. James 1:22-24 Mat7:21-23 Luke6:46-48

I guess we shall find out soon enough, but I do not understand why we are arguing against what God asks us to do if we love Him Exo20:6 John14:15 Rev14:12

Some forget the following:


1. What the word BELIEVE means.
It meant something very specific at the time that Jesus lived.
If everyone knew, or accepted, what this word means...all the debating here would end immediately.

2. I hear that Abraham BELIEVED and it was credited to him as righteousness. Genesis 15:6
It seems to be forgotten that Abraham left his home and was always obedient to God, beginning in Genesis 12:1

 

[legion]

But how does God tell us to love Him? Do we love someone based on what we feel or how they ask? Isn't that the point of love to please the person who is asking when they explicitly tell you.

You do good things unto others help the needy feed the poor give good advice point at Jesus give your testimony none of which are part of the Mosaic law

 

[SabbathBlessing]

You do good things unto others help the needy feed the poor give good advice point at Jesus give your testimony none of which are part of the Mosaic law

So lay aside what God asked we should do if we love Him and only select the parts we are okay with.

 

[Toknow]

I do and that obedience is simply thus love God and love your neighbor that is the simplicity of the New Covenant

Yes sir.
The two great commandments cover everything Jesus taught.

 

[TruthDefender]

So this is a different argument than your last one. Your last one was the Sabbath is a Levitical law, when God said it started at Creation before Jew/Israel/Levi etc. and God said the Ten Commandments are His commandments Exo20:6

In the NT all of God's people keep God's commandments Rev14:12 John14:15 1John5:3 Rev12:17 Rev22:14KJV

The Sabbath is included in the commandments of God according to God Exo20:6 who would know what are God's commandments than God Himself. He called it His Testimony Exo31:18 and they included Ten Commandments Deut4:13 including the 4th commandment. I do not know why man thinks they can tell God what are or are not His commandments- that puts man above God and not a good spot to be in when He calls us to be His servant Isa56:6

The Sabbath is the only day God named in the entire Bible and He said its the seventh day Exo20:10 He used them interchangeably Exo20:11 starting from Creation.

The fact we see the Sabbath mentioned over 55 times in the NT shows it didn't end. Who can override God? People don't realize who this argument is really with. God's written and spoken Testimony written out by God Himself.


It was not just the Jews keeping every Sabbath it was both God-fearing Jews and Gentiles



Acts 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us:

‘I have set you as a light to the Gentiles,
That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”

48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Just as the LORD predicted

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 56 - New King James Version

Salvation for the Gentiles - Thus says the Lord: “Keep justice, and do righteousness, For My salvation is about to come, And My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who lays hold on it; Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And keeps his hand from...

www.biblegateway.com

Salvation for the Gentiles

Isa 56:1 Thus says the LORD:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

3 Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the LORD
Speak, saying,
“The LORD has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the LORD:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
8 The Lord GOD, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says,
“Yet I will gather to him
Others besides those who are gathered to him.”


No wonder why both Jews and Gentiles kept every Sabbath
Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

And continues on for all flesh (God's saints) for eternity thus saith the LORD Isa66:22-23

No wonder why the saints keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus until the very end of time Rev14:12 because they live by what Jesus told us to, what God said Mat4:4 not following what is popular with man Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 He warned us not to.

As the Scripture stated, they went to the synagogues first to persuade the Jews to come to Jesus. When did the Jews mostly come together….yes, on shabbat.
After Jesus died, it was for this purpose they did this.

Even during the Passover feast, Jesus commemorated the beginning of the communion of His death, burial, and resurrection. This they did every first day of the week, when the disciples (believers) came together after He died.

 

[legion]

I am not quoting the Mosaic covenant, I am quoting the law of God. Exo20:6 Exo20:1-17 A covenant is an agreement. The law of God is just that it belongs to God and its His standard of righteousness Psa119:172 Isa56:1-2 which is from everlasting to everlasting Psa 119:142 why it is in both agreements, God shows no partiality Rom2:11 the agreement is established on better promises Heb8:6 not new or better laws Heb8:10, because doing justice and righteousness is the foundation of His throne Psa89:14 and at the end we are either overcoming and doing what is right according to the LORD or still doing evil. Rev22:11 when He comes our decisions we make will be sealed, why today we have time to hear His voice and come out of our rebellion to Him which is sin, unbelief and disobedience all used interchangeable. Heb3:7-19

God has a people, sadly just a remnant ,who overcomes and keep the commandments of God and faith and testimony of Jesus Rev12:17 Rev14:12. He calls all but sadly many choose to serve the LORD according to their will instead of how God asks Isa56:6.

Well that's nice and dandy however I follow the edicts in the New Testament a new covenant new new new not like our fathers it's written on our hearts not like our fathers who failed to see the point of the Mosaic law the mosaic law is only reusable toilet paper and is faded becoming obsolete replaced by a better more perfect Covenant what part of this can you people not understand we are not as Christians obligated to any part of the Mosaic law which is covered in the Torah which is the first five books of the Bible which includes the Commandments given in the first five books of the Bible there are 613 given count them none of them apply to us except the nine reiterated from The Ten Commandments.

Using a defense that's based out of the Old Testament it's pretty much pointless since the Old Testament deals exclusively with Israel

 

[SabbathBlessing]

You're playing a semantic game the first five books are considered the Torah the laws of Moses second I'm still not in Israelite the only thing cared forward from the Old Testament that applies to me are the nine Commandments we see repeated in the New Testament and since we have our Sabbath rest in Jesus we no longer have to quote quote keep the Sabbath

Nine commandments is an umbilical number for a good reason Deut4:13 Exo34:28

Jesus never turned into the 4th commandment. Jesus in His own words said He is LORD of the Sabbath, made for mankind Mark2:27-28 to keep Exo20:8-11. Jesus did not turn into the 4th commandment so we do not have to keep it. The commandment are to be kept for the people of God Rev14:12.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

As the Scripture stated, they went to the synagogues first to persuade the Jews to come to Jesus. When did the Jews mostly come together….yes, on shabbat.
After Jesus died, it was for this purpose they did this.

Even during the Passover feast, Jesus commemorated the beginning of the communion of His death, burial, and resurrection. This they did every first day of the week, when the disciples (believers) came together after He died.

Please quote one verse they kept "every first day" because of the resurrection. We are told plainly not to add to God's Word Pro30:5-6 Its a sad deception not found in our Bibles.

The disciples kept every Sabbath in clear easy to read Scripture Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 because they observed everything God commanded them. They were professed servants of God Rom1:1 not God's corrector. The taught everything had to be according to Christ Col2:8 so find one verse in all of the Bible where Christ said not to keep the Sabbath but to keep the first day instead. These are all teachings that came outside of Scripture exactly what we were warned about Dan7:25 Isa8:20NKJV

 

[Mem]

But that's in the book I'm reading.
May not be in yours.

As long as you're not suggesting that I'm not reading the bible, as many like to assume. I can agree with that conclusion. You might even say that we are coming from differing "faiths."