Loss of salvation???

[Toknow]

As long as you're not suggesting that I'm not reading the bible, as many like to assume. I can agree with that conclusion. You might even say that we are coming from differing "faiths."

I only read the bible.
I don't care for books written by men that tend to have their personal opinions about everything.

As to faiths:
There is only one faith that is being referred to in these threads:
The Christian faith.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Well that's nice and dandy however I follow the edicts in the New Testament a new covenant new new new not like our fathers it's written on our hearts not like our fathers who failed to see the point of the Mosaic law the mosaic law is only reusable toilet paper and is faded becoming obsolete replaced by a better more perfect Covenant what part of this can you people not understand we are not as Christians obligated to any part of the Mosaic law which is covered in the Torah which is the first five books of the Bible which includes the Commandments given in the first five books of the Bible there are 613 given count them none of them apply to us except the nine reiterated from The Ten Commandments.

Using a defense that's based out of the Old Testament it's pretty much pointless since the Old Testament deals exclusively with Israel

So forget the one commandment that God said Remember- Exo20:8-11 that came with the power of His Blessing and Sanctification because we can't do this ourselves Isa66:17 that sounds like something that deceived our first parents- doing the opposite of what God said.

The Sabbath is repeated over 55 times in the NT so it didn't disappear kept by Jesus Luk4:16 and the apostles Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4 and continues on for the people of God Isa66:22-23

If we are so opposed to keeping the Sabbath would one really be happy in heaven? Would God force worship on the Sabbath for those so opposed to it now? I do not think so why I believe His judgement is one of love, because not everyone would be happy in a world without sin John3:19-21

Sin is breaking the law and anything not of faith. God said He wrote Ten Commandments Deu4:13 and called them "My commandments" Exo20:6 His saints keep them by faith, not nine of Ten but all of them.

 

[Mem]

I only read the bible.
I don't care for books written by men that tend to have their personal opinions about everything.

As to faiths:
There is only one faith that is being referred to in these threads:
The Christian faith.

Right. So much for the Gospel.

 

[markss]

The faith part is what saves, the action that follows faith proves if our faith is genuine or not.

Amen!!

Much love!

 

[Mem]

If you get the gospel wrong, you're definitely headed for the lake of fire.

Welcome to the order of the Fibrous Poopians.

 

[markss]

You stated this in post no. 10,841

"I'm saying you are not under God's covenant with Israel, and that we have a different covenant with God, summarized in Jesus' words that all who believe in Him shall live."


We are under a different Covenant.
However, every single Covenant God made with man....
included obedience to God.
All types of Covenants included obedience.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
In the biblical narrative, obedience is a central theme, particularly as it pertains to the covenant relationship between God and His people. The concept of obedience is woven throughout the Scriptures, serving as a fundamental requirement for maintaining the covenantal bond established by God with humanity.

Old Testament Context

In the Old Testament, obedience is first seen in the context of the covenant with Adam, where God commands Adam not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17). The failure to obey this command results in the fall, illustrating the severe consequences of disobedience.

The Abrahamic Covenant further emphasizes obedience. God commands Abraham to leave his country and promises to make him a great nation (Genesis 12:1-3). Abraham's obedience is highlighted in Genesis 22:18, where God says, "And through your offspring all nations of the earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice."

The Mosaic Covenant explicitly outlines obedience as a requirement. The giving of the Law at Sinai establishes a clear framework for Israel's relationship with God. In Exodus 19:5, God declares, "Now if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, you will be My treasured possession out of all the nations." The blessings and curses associated with obedience and disobedience are detailed in Deuteronomy 28, underscoring the importance of adherence to God's commands.

New Testament Context

In the New Testament, the theme of obedience continues, with Jesus Christ exemplifying perfect obedience. Philippians 2:8 states, "And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross." Christ's obedience is central to the New Covenant, fulfilling the Law and the Prophets and establishing a new basis for righteousness.

Believers are called to emulate Christ's obedience. In John 14:15, Jesus says, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." This call to obedience is not merely legalistic but is rooted in love and relationship with Christ. The Apostle Paul reiterates this in Romans 6:16, "Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness?"

Theological Implications

Obedience as a covenant requirement reflects the holiness and sovereignty of God. It is an expression of faith and trust in God's character and promises. The biblical narrative consistently portrays obedience as a response to God's grace and a means of participating in His redemptive work.

The prophets frequently call Israel back to obedience, emphasizing that true worship is not merely ritualistic but involves a heart aligned with God's will. In Micah 6:8, the prophet declares, "He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?"

Practical Application

For believers today, obedience remains a vital aspect of the Christian life. It is a demonstration of faith and a reflection of the transformative work of the Holy Spirit. James 1:22 exhorts, "Be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves." Obedience is thus both a covenant requirement and a pathway to spiritual maturity and blessing.
source: https://biblehub.com/topical/o/obedience_as_a_covenant_requirement.htm

Salvation by grace is the Christian doctrine that forgiveness of sins and eternal life are free gifts from God, unearned by human effort, merit, or good works. Rooted in God’s kindness through Jesus Christ’s sacrifice, salvation is received through faith alone (sola gratia) rather than by fulfilling religious laws.

Key Aspects of Salvation by Grace:

• Unearned Favor: Grace is defined as receiving God's undeserved blessing, as humans cannot achieve righteousness on their own.
• Through Faith: While grace is the source, faith is the means of receiving this salvation.
• Not by Works:
  Ephesians 2:8-9 clarifies that salvation is a gift, not a result of human efforts, eliminating the possibility of boasting.
• • Christ's Accomplishment: Jesus Christ's life, death, and resurrection, not human achievements, secure justification.
  • Response to Grace: While works do not save, they are often viewed as the natural result or evidence of a transformed life following salvation.

This doctrine emphasizes that salvation is entirely God's work, designed to show his grace and mercy, rather than a reward for good behavior.

- google ai

 

[markss]

I didn't say we aren't to be obedient but I'm saying is the Mosaic law has no bearing on the Gentiles and are obedience is not based on the Mosaic law.

Oh I guess you weren't talking to me...

Amen!!

Much love!

 

[JayWalker]

As the Scripture stated, they went to the synagogues first to persuade the Jews to come to Jesus. When did the Jews mostly come together….yes, on shabbat.
After Jesus died, it was for this purpose they did this.

Even during the Passover feast, Jesus commemorated the beginning of the communion of His death, burial, and resurrection. This they did every first day of the week, when the disciples (believers) came together after He died.

Yep, Christians were meeting on Sunday before there was a catholick church
(they always claim the catholics changed the meeting day to Sunday ya know)

Sundays - Why we Observe

Jesus was raised from the dead on Sunday which is Pentecost (Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1)

We see in Acts chapter 2 that the first church service was on Sunday (the day of Pentecost they were all with one accord in one place and received the outpouring of the Holy Ghost). And, the first public evangelism meeting was also held on Sunday out in the street after the Holy Ghost was poured out in the upper room (Acts 2:14-36)

Acts 20:7
The first day of the week, the Apostles came together to break bread

1 Corinthians 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him

Colossians 2:16,17
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Why follow the shadow of things that were to come after Jesus has arrived where we can join Him in The feast of First Fruits? Let no man therefore judge you concerning not observing Saturday sabbath seeing it's not a requirement given in the New Testament for salvation!

The Lord instructed the Israelites, “You shall count seven weeks for yourself; begin to count the seven weeks from the time you begin to put the sickle to the grain” (Deuteronomy 16:9). The word Pentecost means fifty, and it comes fifty days from the feast of First Fruits (Leviticus 23:10–11, 15–17). The feast of First Fruits was to occur on the day after the Sabbath (verse 11), which was always the Sunday of Passover week. Pentecost, then, was the day after the seventh following Sabbath (verses 15–16), which would be the fiftieth day after First Fruits and also falls on a Sunday.

Jesus died on the Friday of Passover week and had to be buried hastily before sunset, which was when the Sabbath began. His body remained in the sepulcher throughout the Sabbath day, but on that Sunday morning, when the priest was to offer the First Fruits offering in the Temple, Christ arose from the dead as the first fruits of them that slept (I Corinthians 15:20).

For forty days, Jesus appeared to His disciples and then ascended into Heaven. Ten days later, the Sunday of the Feast of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit descended upon the believers in Jerusalem. The only biblical reference to the events of Pentecost is Acts 2:1-3. At Pentecost, the disciples witnessed the birth of the New Testament church in the coming of the Holy Spirit.

The evidence shows that the First Fruits and Pentecost were always intended to fall on Sundays, without regard to the day of the month they occurred. As for the New Testament record, it is clear that Jesus arose from the dead on Sunday, the First Day of the Week, the day after the Sabbath, as the fulfillment of the feast of First Fruits. These dates were the literal fulfillment of the Old Testament feasts verifying the powerful meaning of the death and resurrection of Christ.

Jesus is the first fruits, or first born among many brethren

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

[markss]

We are under a different Covenant.

I'm hoping you realize the truthfulness of this. The old covenant, he who does these things shall live by them. Obey and Live.

The new covenant, "all who believe in Me will live", I'm just telling you God's word. If you choose to add to Jesus' words something that Jesus didn't say, that's on you.

Do you think this passage is exactly true?

John 11:25-26 KJV
25) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Or will you add to it, something like, "he that believeth in me, and obeys me . . ."

If that is your addition, you will have yourself to thank as co-savior, having both believed and worked to receive salvation.

Romans 4 addresses this in much detail.

Much love!

 

[TruthDefender]

Nine commandments is an umbilical number for a good reason Deut4:13 Exo34:28

Jesus never turned into the 4th commandment. Jesus in His own words said He is LORD of the Sabbath, made for mankind Mark2:27-28 to keep Exo20:8-11. Jesus did not turn into the 4th commandment so we do not have to keep it. The commandment are to be kept for the people of God Rev14:12.

Jesus never stated that we should keep the Sabbath, only that He is Lord of the sabbath. He was simply telling them that He is God and that He came to make a change in the Law, or rather a fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets. He brought in a better covenant than the last one.

 

[Toknow]

Right. So much for the Gospel.

??
Isn't the gospel part of the Christian faith?

 

[legion]

Please quote one verse they kept "every first day" because of the resurrection. We are told plainly not to add to God's Word Pro30:5-6 Its a sad deception not found in our Bibles.

The disciples kept every Sabbath in clear easy to read Scripture Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 because they observed everything God commanded them. They were professed servants of God Rom1:1 not God's corrector. The taught everything had to be according to Christ Col2:8 so find one verse in all of the Bible where Christ said not to keep the Sabbath but to keep the first day instead. These are all teachings that came outside of Scripture exactly what we were warned about Dan7:25 Isa8:20NKJV

Yes they were jews... however they also met on the first day to discuss Jesus. What's you don't find them doing is telling Christians to follow edicts in the mosaic law specifically the sabbath because, kick dead horse, christian sabbath rest is in Jesus every day.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Jesus never stated that we should keep the Sabbath, only that He is Lord of the sabbath. He was simply telling them that He is God and that He came to make a change in the Law, or rather a fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets. He brought in a better covenant than the last one.

Yes, Jesus is LORD of the Sabbath day, not the first day, that is being lorded by someone else Dan7:25

Jesus said not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments quoting directly from the Ten Commandments Mat5:19-30 which is far from changing one of the commandment of God.

Thank you for proving the point that there is no Scripture that supports what you stated,

 

[TruthDefender]

Yep, Christians were meeting on Sunday before there was a catholick church
(they always claim the catholics changed the meeting day to Sunday ya know)

Curious, why did you mention the Catholic church? They didn’t even start till a few centuries post Christ’s death. Odd!

Sundays - Why we Observe

Jesus was raised from the dead on Sunday which is Pentecost (Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1)

We see in Acts chapter 2 that the first church service was on Sunday (the day of Pentecost they were all with one accord in one place and received the outpouring of the Holy Ghost). And, the first public evangelism meeting was also held on Sunday out in the street after the Holy Ghost was poured out in the upper room (Acts 2:14-36)

Acts 20:7
The first day of the week, the Apostles came together to break bread

Yes

1 Corinthians 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him

Colossians 2:16,17
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Why follow the shadow of things that were to come after Jesus has arrived where we can join Him in The feast of First Fruits? Let no man therefore judge you concerning not observing Saturday sabbath seeing it's not a requirement given in the New Testament for salvation!

Oh, so you think we shouldn’t even discuss this? I’ve lost your point here. (?)

The Lord instructed the Israelites, “You shall count seven weeks for yourself; begin to count the seven weeks from the time you begin to put the sickle to the grain” (Deuteronomy 16:9). The word Pentecost means fifty, and it comes fifty days from the feast of First Fruits (Leviticus 23:10–11, 15–17). The feast of First Fruits was to occur on the day after the Sabbath (verse 11), which was always the Sunday of Passover week. Pentecost, then, was the day after the seventh following Sabbath (verses 15–16), which would be the fiftieth day after First Fruits and also falls on a Sunday.

Jesus died on the Friday of Passover week and had to be buried hastily before sunset, which was when the Sabbath began. His body remained in the sepulcher throughout the Sabbath day, but on that Sunday morning, when the priest was to offer the First Fruits offering in the Temple, Christ arose from the dead as the first fruits of them that slept (I Corinthians 15:20).

For forty days, Jesus appeared to His disciples and then ascended into Heaven. Ten days later, the Sunday of the Feast of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit descended upon the believers in Jerusalem. The only biblical reference to the events of Pentecost is Acts 2:1-3. At Pentecost, the disciples witnessed the birth of the New Testament church in the coming of the Holy Spirit.

The evidence shows that the First Fruits and Pentecost were always intended to fall on Sundays, without regard to the day of the month they occurred. As for the New Testament record, it is clear that Jesus arose from the dead on Sunday, the First Day of the Week, the day after the Sabbath, as the fulfillment of the feast of First Fruits. These dates were the literal fulfillment of the Old Testament feasts verifying the powerful meaning of the death and resurrection of Christ.

Jesus is the first fruits, or first born among many brethren

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I agree.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Yes they were jews... however they also met on the first day to discuss Jesus. What's you don't find them doing is telling Christians to follow edicts in the mosaic law specifically the sabbath because, kick dead horse, christian sabbath rest is in Jesus every day.

Jews and Gentiles.

Acts 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

Acts 18:4And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

Just as God indicated Isa 56

 

[Toknow]

I'm hoping you realize the truthfulness of this. The old covenant, he who does these things shall live by them. Obey and Live.

The new covenant, "all who believe in Me will live", I'm just telling you God's word. If you choose to add to Jesus' words something that Jesus didn't say, that's on you.

Marks
I taught 7 covenants.
doesn't sound like we could have a fruitful discussion based on the above.

John 11:25-26 KJV
25) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Or will you add to it, something like, "he that believeth in me, and obeys me . . ."

If that is your addition, you will have yourself to thank as co-savior, having both believed and worked to receive salvation.

Romans 4 addresses this in much detail.

Much love!

Well, actually, he who believes will obey.
You're not doing well with the Greek language either.
'Night

 

[markss]

2. I hear that Abraham BELIEVED and it was credited to him as righteousness. Genesis 15:6
It seems to be forgotten that Abraham left his home and was always obedient to God, beginning in Genesis 12:1

What Abraham believed that God accounted as righteousness was that he would be the father of many nations, with descendants like the stars of the sky.

He was childless at the time.

Without having done anything, Abraham believed what God said, and God accounted Abraham righteous.

Remember Hagar?

But even still, God had already accounted Abraham righteous.

I recommend a close study of Romans 4, which goes into this with much detail and specificity.

Much love!

 

[markss]

Marks
I taught 7 covenants.
doesn't sound like we could have a fruitful discussion based on the above.

Well, actually, he who believes will obey.
You're not doing well with the Greek language either.
'Night

I don't think you are doing well with English, you seem to dance around my posts.

Regardless, our discussions are not fruitful in my opinion also, so let's not any more.

Much love!

 

[Toknow]

Salvation by grace is the Christian doctrine that forgiveness of sins and eternal life are free gifts from God, unearned by human effort, merit, or good works. Rooted in God’s kindness through Jesus Christ’s sacrifice, salvation is received through faith alone (sola gratia) rather than by fulfilling religious laws.

Key Aspects of Salvation by Grace:

• Unearned Favor: Grace is defined as receiving God's undeserved blessing, as humans cannot achieve righteousness on their own.
• Through Faith: While grace is the source, faith is the means of receiving this salvation.
• Not by Works:
  Ephesians 2:8-9 clarifies that salvation is a gift, not a result of human efforts, eliminating the possibility of boasting.
• • Christ's Accomplishment: Jesus Christ's life, death, and resurrection, not human achievements, secure justification.
  • Response to Grace: While works do not save, they are often viewed as the natural result or evidence of a transformed life following salvation.

This doctrine emphasizes that salvation is entirely God's work, designed to show his grace and mercy, rather than a reward for good behavior.

- google ai

We're you careful to ask Dr AI just the right question?

Maybe you should find out what Jesus taught instead of what AI or the internet teaches.

Same ole' nonsense in the above.

I like to deal with scripture.

 

[Toknow]

I don't think you are doing well with English, you seem to dance around my posts.

Regardless, our discussions are not fruitful in my opinion also, so let's not any more.

Much love!

Agreed.
Your opinions don't interest me.