Loss of salvation???

[TruthDefender]

24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:
25 "and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26 "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand:
27 "and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall." (Matt. 7:24-27 NKJ)

Even in your version, it’s there.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Yes, except the 4th commandment evidently was part of the Levitical laws rather than a moral commandment,
because it was not re-commanded in the NT, but even the moral laws were expanded and redefined as doing good/
reflecting divine love every day.

Can you show me from Scripture when doing what is righteous by God stops being righteous and when doing something that is evil according to God stops being evil.

The Bible I read says God's righteousness is eternal Psa119:142 the foundation of His throne Psa89:14 and God directly told us keeping the Sabbath is doing righteousness and just Isa56:1-2 and comes with His Blessing that no man can reverse Num23:20

God told us profaning the Sabbath is doing evil Neh13:17 Isa56:2 because its replacing what God commanded Exo20:8-11 with a voice of another why God Himself relates it to idol worship Eze20:16 when did that stop being a commandment? and He relates that to profaning Him Eze22:26 these are all thus saith the LORDS

To claim what Jesus is LORD of and how He tells us to worship Him Rev14:7 Exo20:11 Isa66:23 is not moral, wow. Doing what God deems as righteousness is moral- we are not God- its not up to us, its telling God His written and spoken Testimony Exo31:18 is not moral, the commandments of God are not moral Exp20:6 loving God the way He asks not moral. Its not a good spot to be in once He returns

Rev 22:11 Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.”

Only God can make something holy and we cannot take it away. It stays that way.

Only God can bless us or bless a day and He did that with the seventh day alone Exo20:11 and blesses the man who keeps it Isa56:6 man cannot take this away Number23:20 they can only forfeit their own Psa37:22

 

[GWH]

I was wondering about these persons that post that we must obey The Law.
Is this something new?
I don't understand how it could even be possible.

Well, it is new to understand that morality flows from Spirituality rather than from checking the boxes
(Gal. 5:8, 1Tim. 1:9, Rom. 8:2,5,14), but some revert to the latter when the focus of sermons is on the OT too much.

 

[GWH]

Can you show me from Scripture when doing what is righteous by God stops being righteous and when doing something that is evil according to God stops being evil.

The Bible I read says God's righteousness is eternal Psa119:142 the foundation of His throne Psa89:14 and God directly told us keeping the Sabbath is doing righteousness and just Isa56:1-2 and comes with His Blessing that no man can reverse Num23:20

God told us profaning the Sabbath is doing evil Neh13:17 Isa56:2 because its replacing what God commanded Exo20:8-11 with a voice of another why God Himself relates it to idol worship Eze20:16 when did that stop being a commandment? and He relates that to profaning Him Eze22:26 these are all thus saith the LORDS

To claim what Jesus is LORD of and how He tells us to worship Him Rev14:7 Exo20:11 Isa66:23 is not moral, wow. Doing what God deems as righteousness is moral- we are not God- its not up to us, its telling God His written and spoken Testimony Exo31:18 is not moral, the commandments of God are not moral Exp20:6 loving God the way He asks not moral. Its not a good spot to be in once He returns

Rev 22:11 Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.”

Only God can make something holy and we cannot take it away. It stays that way.

Only God can bless us or bless a day and He did that with the seventh day alone Exo20:11 and blesses the man who keeps it Isa56:6 man cannot take this away Number23:20 they can only forfeit their own Psa37:22

The entire import of the NT is that obeying the Levitical laws once deemed righteous by God are superseded by cooperating
with the HS/Gospel, which God now deems to be the way of attaining righteousness (per Rom. 3:21-5:1, Gal. 5:8, 1Tim. 1:9, etc.).
I encourage you to become a Christian and stop reverting to Judaism.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

The entire import of the NT is that obeying the Levitical laws once deemed righteous by God are superseded by cooperating
with the HS/Gospel, which God now deems to be the way of attaining righteousness (per Rom. 3:21-5:1, Gal. 5:8, 1Tim. 1:9, etc.).
I encourage you to become a Christian and stop reverting to Judaism.

The Sabbath according to God started at Creation- before Levi, before Jew, before Israel, before Moses

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Just God and man- who was made in the image and likeness to follow Him, not do something different. That's where man went wrong and continues to do so. Replacing what God said with man-made traditions Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 Col2:8

 

[studier]

Even in your version, it’s there.

What I originally meant, in Jesus' teaching He doesn't even give the disobedient ones the respect of saying their house is "founded on" anything - IOW it has no foundation - sand is not a foundation - disobedience to Jesus is not a foundation - He compares them to being "moros" = foolish, stupid (we all should be able to see what English word we get from 'moros').

Paul in 1Cor3:10-11 says the only foundation that can be built upon is Jesus = Christ.

If we take Paul's 'foundation" - Jesus = Christ - and see how he evangelized in Acts13:16-41 - specifically the part at Acts13:33 which he ties to Psalm2 - where we get a description for "Christ" (YHWH's Anointed/Christ & King who inherits the nations and is given the earth) - so in Paul's foundation is Jesus' title "Christ" who has all authority. So, Paul's foundation inherently includes obedience to Jesus the Christ/King just as Jesus taught.

This is why I push for evangelism like Paul actually taught in Acts13:16-41 that makes it clear what "Christ" means. When it's clear that "Christ" is a title of absolute authority - then the requirement of obedience to absolute authority should be no mystery when it comes to believing in Him.

Faith in Jesus the Christ is obedience to Jesus the Christ = the only foundation that anything lasting through judgement can be built upon.

 

[GWH]

The Sabbath according to God started at Creation- before Levi, before Jew, before Israel, before Moses

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Just God and man- who was made in the image and likeness to follow Him, not do something different. That's where man went wrong and continues to do so. Replacing what God said with man-made traditions Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 Col2:8

Whenever Levitical law began, Christians believe it was fulfilled by Jesus and superseded by cooperating with his HS. We invite you to join our fellowship.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Whenever Levitical law began, Christians believe it was fulfilled by Jesus and superseded by cooperating with his HS. We invite you to join our fellowship.

These are just your words, it doesn't address that doing what God deems as evil Neh13:17 Isa56:2 and what God deems as righteousness Isa56:1-2 stays that way Rev22:11. God personally invited everyone to join themselves to the LORD and serve Him Isa56:6 people just want to do this according to their will and not God's. Its the same story repeating itself over and over again Heb4:6 Heb3:7-19 Eze20:13 Eze 20:16 Heb4:11 Rev22:11

 

[TruthDefender]

What I originally meant, in Jesus' teaching He doesn't even give the disobedient ones the respect of saying their house is "founded on" anything - IOW it has no foundation - sand is not a foundation - disobedience to Jesus is not a foundation - He compares them to being "moros" = foolish, stupid (we all should be able to see what English word we get from 'moros').

Paul in 1Cor3:10-11 says the only foundation that can be built upon is Jesus = Christ.

If we take Paul's 'foundation" - Jesus = Christ - and see how he evangelized in Acts13:16-41 - specifically the part at Acts13:33 which he ties to Psalm2 - where we get a description for "Christ" (YHWH's Anointed/Christ & King who inherits the nations and is given the earth) - so in Paul's foundation is Jesus' title "Christ" who has all authority. So, Paul's foundation inherently includes obedience to Jesus the Christ/King just as Jesus taught.

This is why I push for evangelism like Paul actually taught in Acts13:16-41 that makes it clear what "Christ" means. When it's clear that "Christ" is a title of absolute authority - then the requirement of obedience to absolute authority should be no mystery when it comes to believing in Him.

Faith in Jesus the Christ is obedience to Jesus the Christ = the only foundation that anything lasting through judgement can be built upon.

Well, I think it’s pretty clear. NP

 

[JayWalker]

That judgment call is well above your paygrade.

I'm In Christ having access to the Mind of Christ from God's Word so it's not above His "pay grade"

Trying to live under the old covenant does not result in one being saved.

 

[Toknow]

I never denied that we must obey God.

Yes, of course. But we are talking about obeying the commandments of Jesus Christ, which are neither ambiguous nor hidden. Knowledge and understanding are a major theme in the New Testament. We could multiply examples. But for now, notice Peter's emphasis on knowledge in the following passage. 2 Peter 1:2-8

Paul often prays that his readers will be granted a "knowledge of the truth" or "knowledge of him," or "a spirit of wisdom and knowledge," or "knowledge and discernment."


Early in Israel's interaction with Yahweh, they may have lacked understanding, but as they lived under the Law for many years, they learned about what God values. Paul says that the Law was their tutor. Children don't always know why their parents give them rules to follow, but eventually, children grow up to be adults and they learn the reasons for the rules.

When Jesus came, he more fully instructed Israel about God's values. He corrected the Jewish religious leaders and taught the crowds directly. In other words, Israel grew up and became an adult.


Let's think this through a little bit more. What if the man said nothing at all to anyone except the priests? What then? Would his healing remain a secret? Really?

I only know what scripture states.
If you like to hypothesise you can.

Seems you didn't catch the point.

Why were the priests involved if not for the sake of man's participation in the ritual/religious life of the community? After his healing, the man was expected to participate in public worship. This meant that a man who was formerly ostracized by his community because of an illness was suddenly allowed to attend the Synagogue. And this would go without notice?

You have to be joking around Roger316.

What was the man supposed to do? Lie about how he was healed? No, if he were honest, he would give Jesus Credit.

I'll stop posting to you now.

 

[Toknow]

From what I've seen, since the first century there has always been some form of law/Moses based ideology.

You likely know more of the ECF than I, but they were against it and some of their battles were directly against it.

In the current environment, 1900's on, it looks mainly to be the Hebrew Roots movement and similar in Messianic Judaism and some offshoots of it.

But there were and are others.

SDA is mainly 10C observant but not full Torah as I understand.

Not familiar with the ECFs and the idea of Law keeping....
can't really remember reading about this.
Will look it up later on.
They did teach good works, but under grace.

 

[Toknow]

From what I've seen, since the first century there has always been some form of law/Moses based ideology.

You likely know more of the ECF than I, but they were against it and some of their battles were directly against it.

In the current environment, 1900's on, it looks mainly to be the Hebrew Roots movement and similar in Messianic Judaism and some offshoots of it.

But there were and are others.

SDA is mainly 10C observant but not full Torah as I understand.

PS
Looks like we can go from one extreme to the other.

 

[Toknow]

But what if its is important to God why He wrote it in the Ten Commandments- His Testimony Exo31:18 and it was never pick the day you want. He only blessed and sanctified one day for holy use, not all.

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Can we apply this same logic to the other 9 commandments. God didn't really mean adultery with our spouses its anyone we have a relationship with. God didn't really mean to not lie- just when it works for us.

Doubt in what God says is the begging of all the problems. God spelled out what He meant and told us not to add or subtract from it. Deut4:2 Ecc3:14 Mat5:18-19 because He would not Psa89:34

Jesus is LORD of the Sabbath day, Mat2:27-28 not the day we choose.

You're talking about the Sabbath.
You could worship on the Sabbath....you won't get any argument from me.
Christianity is facing problems and the day we worship is not one of them.

But are you trying to keep THE LAW?
The Law of Moses?
I hear it's called Torah keeping.

I was referring to this.
New and odd teachings making an appearance every so often.

 

[Toknow]

Even in your version, it’s there.

TD
I don't mean to kill a dead horse but I do think the concept you're speaking of is important.



Let's look at the veses again:


Matthew 7:24-27
24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

25“And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.

26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

27“The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”


Verses 24 and 25 is about a man that is doing something.
He's not building a house....he's acting on the words of Jesus.
THIS acting on the words of Jesus is WHAT is causing the house to be built....
The fact that he's obeying Jesus is what makes the foundation be of rock.

In verses 26 and 27 is about a man building a house by NOT OBEYING the words of Jesus....
his NOT obeying Jesus is what is causing the house to be built on sand.

It's the man's ACTIONS that cause the foundation to be of rock or of sand.
OBEYING JESUS EQUALS A FOUNDATION OF ROCK.
NOT OBEYING JESUS EQUALS A FOUNDATION OF SAND.

The good foundation is obeying Jesus.
The bad foundation is not obeying Jesus.

It's not about foundations...
it's about obeying or not obeying Jesus.

 

[mailmandan]

I'm In Christ having access to the Mind of Christ from God's Word so it's not above His "pay grade"

Trying to live under the old covenant does not result in one being saved.

You can make all the claims you like yet only the Lord can infallibly judge the hearts of men and their salvation status. Leave that judgment call up to the infallible Judge. Who is trying to live under the old covenant?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

You're talking about the Sabbath.
You could worship on the Sabbath....you won't get any argument from me.
Christianity is facing problems and the day we worship is not one of them.

But are you trying to keep THE LAW?
The Law of Moses?
I hear it's called Torah keeping.

I was referring to this.
New and odd teachings making an appearance every so often.

I think you're misunderstanding the argument. We should devote ourselves to God 365/24/7 but many people misunderstand worship from devotion. Jesus related worship to obedience to the commandments of God quoting directly from the Ten Commandments Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13.

The Sabbath is about resting from our works and labors and keeping the entire day holy by focusing on God. Exo20:8-11 Isa58:13 God does not want us stressed out and working 24/7 - its impossible to take a Sabbath 7 days a week one because God only said the Sabbath is on the seventh day Exo20:10 this is God from heaven, coming down and personally writing out these words, not Moses. Exo31:18 Exo32:16

To say this doesn't matter the day I believe we will all have to be accountable to God because its what He said both spoken and written. Exo31:11 Deut4:13 It mattered enough to God that it left an entire generation out of their promised land/rest their inheritance that God told them He would give them on the condition of loving Him with all their heart mind and soul Deut6:3-5 which that included keeping the Sabbath because they didn't keep the Sabbath and that was the reason God said they could not receive their promised land full of milk and honey, God said this plainly Eze20:15-16 and than tells us in the NT not to follow in their same example of disobedience. Heb4:11. Jesus said the greatest commandments to love God with all our heart mind and soul and love neighbor there are no greater commandments than these and they are imbedded in OT what Jesus was quoting and it included the 4th commandment- the one God said Remember, that most of the world has forgotten.

I believing keeping the Sabbath is more than just a day, its a test of loyalty. God said Remember to keep the Sabbath day holy because its tied personally to God- He as being our Creator Exo20:11 our -Re-Creator Eze20:12- the only God we are ever called to worship why its part of the everlasting gospel Rev14:6-7 a sign between God and His people Eze20:20 the only God who has the power to Bless a day Exo20:11 and Bless mankind Isa56:2 and sanctify a day Gen2:3 and sanctify mankind Eze20:12 because we can't do this ourselves Isa66:17 we would literally have to do the opposite of what Jesus said man should live by Mat4:4 to come to the conclusion God doesn't care if we don't keep the only day He said is the holy day of the LORD Isa58:13 there is no other- just sadly a counterfeit Dan7:25

We will all have to decide which voice we listen to. Jesus is LORD of the Sabbath day, meaning someone else is lording Sunday. Sunday came from Pegan roots from sun worship that turned into Sunday worship- what God called the greatest abomination Eze 8:15-17. The Sabbath came from God directly, God only named the Sabbath day, the others were simply day 1, day two etc. and He kept the Sabbath day Luke4:16 made it for mankind Mark2:27 to serve Isa56:6 and join ourselves to the LORD Isa56:6 Isa58:13

The apostles taught we ought to obey God over man. The followed Jesus Acts 17:2 Acts 18:4 Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44.

In the New Heaven and New Earth there will still be an assembly on the Sabbath for worship. God does not change, but I can't help but wonder if we are so opposed to worshipping the LORD and keeping the Sabbath day holy now, would one be happy in heaven? God would never force anyone to worship Him, if that were the case we would be robots and there would have never been sin in the first place. It has to come from a changed heart and love. I wouldn't want to miss this because I ended up following the popular path of what everyone else is doing instead of living by what God said. Mat4:4


Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect

Isa66:22“For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23;And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

 

[JayWalker]

You can make all the claims you like yet only the Lord can infallibly judge the hearts of men and their salvation status. Leave that judgment call up to the infallible Judge.

So you think Jesus lied when He said "you shall know them by their fruits"?

 

[Cameron143]

I'm seeing bad apples and rotten tomatoes.

 

[mailmandan]

So you think Jesus lied when He said "you shall know them by their fruits"?

Jesus never lied.