The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[Rob7]

@TMS Mornin' Brother

I too love to argue theology ...

By my being in the this pharisaical forum for the last 12 months, I've learned and come to understand many scriptural concepts, I've come to know Jesus very much more intimately. Gal 2:20 Becoming much more aware of His Spirit, THRU ME ... it's called Sanctification, by Justification ... "By beholding, we become"

We our arguing against their "religion of disobedience", which they will defend as if their "worldly" life depends on it, and IT DOES... as far as they, "themselves" are concerned. Their "Self" love does depend on them defending their understanding of scripture that supports their justification to Satan's and his 1st lie, "You shall NOT surely die" to allow them to be able to continue to sin and disobey God, and still feel confident that they'll still receive eternal life. "NOT !"

Yes ! They are justifying to Satan, as did Eve, then Adam, by believing Lucifer... and this propensity to sin is what is driving and motivating them to argue so vehemently against scriptures Truth, ~> Obedience to God.

It was my arguing for Truth, in this forum, that actually caused me, to have a "self suicide experience"
A dying to "self" = sin, to where I am now, no longer under the Law, being in Christ and He in me .. and it is no longer I who live, but ... etc

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified ( self suicided ) with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Galatians 2:19-21

Having said that ..
Sister White generally advised against contentious arguing and emphasized presenting truth in love while allowing the Holy Spirit to do the convincing work. Here are some key principles from her writings:

On Avoiding Controversy: White wrote that believers should not enter into heated debates or try to force conviction through argumentation. In Evangelism (p. 195), she states:

"We are not to enter into controversy... The truth is to be presented in the simplicity of its purity, and left to work upon the heart."

On the Holy Spirit's Role: In The Great Controversy, she emphasizes that conviction comes from the Spirit, not human argument:

"It is the Holy Spirit that convinces of sin, righteousness, and judgment. Our work is to present the truth, and leave the results with God."

On Gentle Presentation: From Testimonies for the Church (Vol. 9, p. 17):

"Let the truth be spoken in love. We are not to be contentious... The Spirit of God will do the work of conviction."

Practical Guidance:​

According to White's counsel, the recommended approach is:

1. Present truth clearly but without aggression
2. Avoid entering into controversy that hardens hearts
3. Pray for the Holy Spirit's work in the listener's heart
4. Be ready to give answers when asked, but not to force debate
5. Focus on Christ-centered presentation rather than winning arguments

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ~~ Blessed Day Folks ~~ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
​

 

[vassal]

Most of the Torah/OT Law was Levitical for the purpose of creating a culture that would produce Messiah
and became void when that purpose was fulfilled by the advent and atonement of Jesus.

Some OT laws were elaborations of God's moral nature, revealed by creation and conscience,
and summarized by the Golden Rule (GR)/divine love (DL), which is fulfilled as believers in Messiah cooperate with the HS
(Rom. 5:5, 13:8, Gal. 5:22-23).

The five laws you cited are expressions of the latter and are expanded/amended and re-commanded in the NT (Matt. 5:20-48),
but the Sabbath Law (SL) is part of the former and was not re-commanded in the NT, although in a sense it too was amended
and expanded (Matt. 12:1-12, Col. 2:16-17, Rom. 12:1-3, Heb. 3:7-4:11) ).

Jesus spoke about the sabbath and explained how to keep it, to say it was not mentioned by Jesus who kept it is false, Jesus spoke about all Ten Commandments, they are the covenant the same commandments pur places in our hearts as described in Jeremial 32 and re quoted by Paul also.

 

[vassal]

@TMS Mornin' Brother

I too love to argue theology ...

By my being in the this pharisaical forum for the last 12 months, I've learned and come to understand many scriptural concepts, I've come to know Jesus very much more intimately. Gal 2:20 Becoming much more aware of His Spirit, THRU ME ... it's called Sanctification, by Justification ... "By beholding, we become"

We our arguing against their "religion of disobedience", which they will defend as if their "worldly" life depends on it, and IT DOES... as far as they, "themselves" are concerned. Their "Self" love does depend on them defending their understanding of scripture that supports their justification to Satan's and his 1st lie, "You shall NOT surely die" to allow them to be able to continue to sin and disobey God, and still feel confident that they'll still receive eternal life. "NOT !"

Yes ! They are justifying to Satan, as did Eve, then Adam, by believing Lucifer... and this propensity to sin is what is driving and motivating them to argue so vehemently against scriptures Truth, ~> Obedience to God.

It was my arguing for Truth, in this forum, that actually caused me, to have a "self suicide experience"
A dying to "self" = sin, to where I am now, no longer under the Law, being in Christ and He in me .. and it is no longer I who live, but ... etc

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified ( self suicided ) with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Galatians 2:19-21

Having said that ..
Sister White generally advised against contentious arguing and emphasized presenting truth in love while allowing the Holy Spirit to do the convincing work. Here are some key principles from her writings:

On Avoiding Controversy: White wrote that believers should not enter into heated debates or try to force conviction through argumentation. In Evangelism (p. 195), she states:

On the Holy Spirit's Role: In The Great Controversy, she emphasizes that conviction comes from the Spirit, not human argument:

On Gentle Presentation: From Testimonies for the Church (Vol. 9, p. 17):

Practical Guidance:​

According to White's counsel, the recommended approach is:

1. Present truth clearly but without aggression
2. Avoid entering into controversy that hardens hearts
3. Pray for the Holy Spirit's work in the listener's heart
4. Be ready to give answers when asked, but not to force debate
5. Focus on Christ-centered presentation rather than winning arguments

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ~~ Blessed Day Folks ~~ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
​

we have also to remember that if they refuse the words of Christ we are to leave them alone, there is a limit on how many tries and persistance in the message if it is not received

Mat 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Mat 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

 

[Dino246]

we have also to remember that if they refuse the words of Christ we are to leave them alone, there is a limit on how many tries and persistance in the message if it is not received

Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

According to this , you should have knocked the dust off your feet and left this forum several months ago. By your own logic, you are disobeying God’s word.

 

[GWH]

Jesus spoke about the sabbath and explained how to keep it, to say it was not mentioned by Jesus who kept it is false, Jesus spoke about all Ten Commandments, they are the covenant the same commandments pur places in our hearts as described in Jeremial 32 and re quoted by Paul also.

Jesus spoke about the sabbath to explain why his disciples did not observe it, which explanation amended and expanded it to doing good every day. Similarly, when Jesus spoke about the Ten Commandments, it was to amend and expand them, but not as a means of attaining salvation per John (John 3:16, 6:29), and as a description of the HS's fruit in our hearts per Paul (Gal. 5:22-23).

The OT version was part of the OC, and the NT amended versions are part of the Gospel by way of explaining how the purpose of the old was to lead us to accept the new, so please do.

 

[Cameron143]

So you agree that by the power of the Holy Spirit we can obey the law. By walking in the Spirit obedience is the result.

Not because we are able but because God can do it in us.

But we need to die to self and allow The Spirit to work in us.

Love is best defined by looking at God.

God is Love.

So we know we are loving God and others when God is living in us.
We know we are filled with God's love when self is dead, and we are surrendered to God.

We will act like Jesus when we are walking in the Spirit.

Joh 15:9-10
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Love is all about Jesus living in us.
Being connected to the vine.
Being filled with the Holy Spirit.

The fruit you produce will show who is your master.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Yes, it's God from being to end.

Still haven't answered my question.

 

[vassal]

Jesus spoke about the sabbath to explain why his disciples did not observe it, which explanation amended and expanded it to doing good every day. Similarly, when Jesus spoke about the Ten Commandments, it was to amend and expand them, but not as a means of attaining salvation per John (John 3:16, 6:29), and as a description of the HS's fruit in our hearts per Paul (Gal. 5:22-23).

The OT version was part of the OC, and the NT amended versions are part of the Gospel by way of explaining how the purpose of the old was to lead us to accept the new, so please do.

Absolutely false His disciples did as Jesus did they followed it! they did not obey the multiples pharisees additions to it so what, Jesus explained why their multiple ridiculous additions to it that made it a burden. about salvation Jesus if King, the Lord of us all , Having All authority and HE DID say clearly to Keep the commandments to enter into life, (Mat 19:17), if you refuse this, you refuse Christ. just believing his name and NOT doing what he ask wont cut it. By Hts words we Shall be judged and by no one else. He will decide not us, following human traditions and false doctrine puts people in danger. We have No excuses We have His words in Matthew, John, Mark and Luke and the disciples and Paul

you still do not see jer 31:31-34 that says these commands will be placed in our heart and minds, Paul said the same thing quoting Jeremiah. they remain the same but you refuse to see.

 

[Rob7]

they refuse the words of Christ we are to leave them alone,

YuP ! That's why I quoted EGW .. She councils this same thing... We are to present the Truth, ... then let the Holy Spirit do the conviction. Which He only can do.
I'm still learning, (sanctification) that I have NO POWER of my own, ... all Spiritual Power comes from God.
I have NO righteousness outside of the Righteousness of Christ )...(=obedience to the Father's WIll).. Oh wretched man that I am.

 

[TMS]

The Gentiles legally were only under the law of Noah.

You keep confusing the former covenant that the Jews were bound to obey, with the Gentiles
that never had the law.

The Catholics and Reformers put you under the law.

But you have said they are all moral laws except the 4th one.

Do you think they should be obeyed?

Is it important to obey the law?

The law is Spiritual, which means they are not limited by physical races.

The law is Spiritual. Are you walking in the Spirit.

Dispensationalism is an evil doctrine invented in the 1800s

God loves us all the same

 

[TMS]

Insistence on keeping the sabbath is a sign that you do not know the true gospel. I know what SDA teach. It's putting grace back under the law and rejecting the true gospel. You expose your ignorance by your misinterpretation of God's word. You reveal that you are unteachable when you reject those who correct your false doctrine.

Do you even know what eternal life is? Do you know Jesus? I see no sign that you do. All you have is a concept.

This is eternal life:

"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.” John 3:36

"And this is that testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life." 1 John 5:11 & 12

"Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent." John 17:3

If you do not have eternal life now, you are not saved, no matter how religiously you obey the Law.

Be careful

Your judging the heart. This is only something God can do.

You quote verses above that state that eternal life is "knowing God and Jesus"

I agree "knowing Jesus is essential".

But do we know Him and Love Him while we are practicing iniquity? Sinning?

The place were we differ is in our definition of sin.

I see the 10 commandments as a way of seeing what sin is. So I can by grace follow the example Jesus gave and obey the 10 commandments. Not to be save but because I love and know my saviour.

 

[TMS]

Do you even know what eternal life is? Do you know Jesus? I see no sign that you do. All you have is a concept.

1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[GWH]

Absolutely false His disciples did as Jesus did they followed it! they did not obey the multiples pharisees additions to it so what, Jesus explained why their multiple ridiculous additions to it that made it a burden. about salvation Jesus if King, the Lord of us all , Having All authority and HE DID say clearly to Keep the commandments to enter into life, (Mat 19:17), if you refuse this, you refuse Christ. just believing his name and NOT doing what he ask wont cut it. By Hts words we Shall be judged and by no one else. He will decide not us, following human traditions and false doctrine puts people in danger. We have No excuses We have His words in Matthew, John, Mark and Luke and the disciples and Paul

you still do not see jer 31:31-34 that says these commands will be placed in our heart and minds, Paul said the same thing quoting Jeremiah. they remain the same but you refuse to see.

Yes, Jesus' disciples followed the SL as Jesus did, which disagreed with the understanding of the Pharisees,
but you should note that Jesus amended and expanded the OT Scriptures as well as their additions to them.

Jesus said to keep the commandments and that all do not keep them (Matt. 19:17, Rom. 3:23). Fortunately, He also said the way to be saved was NOT by keeping the OT laws but rather by faith in Him as Messiah, who atones for humanity's sins (John 6:29, Rom. 6:23, 3:21-5:1).

You still refuse to see that Jer. 31:31-34 is fulfilled when the HS indwells believers' hearts (Rom. 5:5).

 

[Roger316]

What man deems as a sign is not that important. God deems that's important.

God said the Sabbath is a sign between God and His people

Eze 20:20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.’

He was talking to Israel, not to you or me.

Its a sign of His sanctification

Today, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is his sign of sanctification.

Rev 7:3saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.”

He is talking about the 144,000 from the twelve tribes.

Sadly many do not respond to the call because of a harden heart just as those before us Heb3:7-19 Eze20:13 Exe20:15-16

Israel.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John is not talking about obeying the Ten Commandments.

Which would include obeying what Jesus said man should live by quoting the OT- every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God Mat4:4

Israel.

 

[Roger316]

Jesus spoke about the sabbath and explained how to keep it, to say it was not mentioned by Jesus who kept it is false, Jesus spoke about all Ten Commandments, they are the covenant the same commandments pur places in our hearts as described in Jeremial 32 and re quoted by Paul also.

The New Covenant is not keeping the Ten Commandments; the New Covenant is forgiveness of sins through the blood of Jesus Christ.

 

[Qt]

The SDA is based on a so called prophecy by William Miller.

William Miller was Bible studier studying prophesies. He came to a conclusion and was wrong. There were many besides him who came to the same wrong conclusion.

 

[Roger316]

1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Jesus' audience was already keeping the Ten Commandment when he said this. Therefore, he was talking about something else.

 

[Qt]

The New Covenant is not keeping the Ten Commandments; the New Covenant is forgiveness of sins through the blood of Jesus Christ.

Forgiveness of sins and the cleansing blood of Jesus gets us to the new covenant. For God has said, I will put my LAW in their hearts and write them in their minds. I will be to them God and they shall be to me a people.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

He was talking to Israel, not to you or me.

Today, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is his sign of sanctification.

He is talking about the 144,000 from the twelve tribes.

Israel.

John is not talking about obeying the Ten Commandments.

Israel.

The only covenant that God remembers our sins no more is with Israel

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12;For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

We enter this covenant not by nationality but by faith and receive all of the promises that came through the bloodline of Abraham, including the Blessing God gives on His Sabbath Exo20:11 and blesses the man who keeps it Isa56:2 that no man can take away what God blessed Num23:20 they will sadly just forfeit their own Psa37:22

Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29;And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

So the same promises made through Abraham we receive through faith. Why God's only covenant that remembers our sins no more is still with Israel, we enter through faith and in by doing so have God's laws written in our minds to know and do them and written in our hearts because we love Him so much and want do what He asks John14:15-18 sadly not everyone is in this covenant because they have rejected the terms - they won't subject themselves to His laws Rom 8:7-8 - no one is sealed by the Holy Spirit by being in rebellion to God and His commandments 1John2:4 Heb 10:26-30 - He invites everyone to join themselves to the LORD to be His servant Isa56:6 not everyone responds to His invitation.

 

[pinebeach]

To YOU (Anti-Truth/Christ) false prophets, introducing destructive heresies as in 2 Peter 2:1, which reads: "Now there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master (Jesus) who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves."

... Ofcourse you will deny, malign, denigrate, and try to confuse the understanding of God's prophets, who proclaim a message of OBEDIENCE to God, to this sinful & spiritually dying world.

Matthew 24:11 and Matthew 24:24 prophesy that "many false prophets will arise and mislead many" and that false Christs and prophets will rise to show great signs to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

• 1 John 4:1 instructs believers to "test the spirits, whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world."
• Acts 20:29–30 warns that "savage wolves will come in among you" and that even from within the congregation, men will distort the truth to draw disciples away.
• 1 Timothy 4:1 states that "in later times some will abandon the faith to follow deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons."

YOU ! ... deceitful spirits, teachings misunderstanding & doctrines of demons, ie. disobedience to God, have been present in all of God's History, throughout the OT and the NT..

"But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." Matt. 24:37 .... Noah, a prophet of God

This New Testament verse explicitly calls Noah a "preacher of righteousness." ... Noah's role was not only to build the ark but also to proclaim the message of obedience = righteousness and repentance.

• Here, Noah’s obedience to God's warning and his preparation of the ark are linked to his faith and righteousness. He is portrayed as obedient, condemning the world by his actions, and trusting in God's promise.

Ellen G. White, emphasizes that Noah's preaching of righteousness was not just limited to building the ark but also involved calling people to repentance. She writes:

According to White, Noah’s role as a preacher of righteousness was vital in God's plan to give the world a chance to repent before the flood came. Despite the rejection of his message, Noah continued to be faithful and obedient to God’s commands.

Noah is clearly depicted as a preacher of righteousness in both the Bible and the writings of Ellen G. White. He faithfully preached for 120 years, calling people to obedience and repentance in preparation for the coming judgment. His life is an example of unwavering faith, righteousness, and obedience to God despite widespread rejection.

Elijah a prophets of God, confronted 450 prophets of Baal and 400 prophets of Asherah.
The Bible describes Elijah as a prophet sent by God who preached obedience to God and challenged the Israelites to stop wavering between the Lord and Baal. In 1 Kings 18:21, Elijah publicly declared, "How long will you falter between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him," directly calling the people to choose obedience to the true God

John the Baptist a prophet of God, with Jesus affirming he was "more than a prophet" and the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy ( Matthew 11:9-11; Isaiah 40:3 ). He was uniquely called to prepare the way for the Messiah, serving as the voice crying in the wilderness to turn hearts toward God.

John's ministry centered on preaching repentance and obedience to God's call, urging the people to "produce fruit in keeping with repentance" ( Matthew 3:8 ). He demonstrated unwavering obedience to his divine mission by living an ascetic life in the wilderness, confronting religious hypocrisy, and fearlessly rebuking King Herod Antipas ( as we Adventist rebuke this World, for your disobedience ) for his unlawful marriage. Forwhich they took his head off !

False Prophets, Pharisaical types and all those promoting disobedience to God, are siding with Satan and his AntiChrist, ( Revelation 16:13 ) and will naturally reject any council of "Obedience to God" saying " We don't have to keep the 10 Commandments, God's Moral Law" and will deny and denigrate EGW, Adventists or anyone proclaiming the necessity of OBEDIENCE to God, through Faith to have the Righteousness of Christ, by LOVE, to become Justified & Sanctified to God, becoming His Obedient Children, " ... the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Rev. 14:12 ... Inheriting eternal life with Jesus. ~~~~ Amen ! I Pray !!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ~~ Blessed Sabbath Folks ! ~~ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++​

Well you certainly know yourself from all the descriptions throughout scripture that describe exactly who and what you are.

But we knew that already.

 

[Roger316]

But you have said they are all moral laws except the 4th one.

Resting on the Seventh Day isn't a moral act.

Is it important to obey the law?

Every country has their own laws. Do you live in Israel?

The law is Spiritual, which means they are not limited by physical races.

The Law is spiritual, which means that it came directly from God.