Loss of salvation???

[studier]

Re: Rom8

• A little research on the internet says 90-95% of Christiandom does not see OSAS in the chain in Rom8:28-30
• In Rom8:17 Paul addresses glorification for Christians in a conditional statement pertaining to joint-suffering with Jesus Christ.
• In much of Rom8 Paul is addressing several things the Christian is to be doing in his walk.
• Taking all of this into account it's simple to see why seeing OSAS in Rom8:28-30 is a very minority view.
• The chain is there to both comfort believers and to let them know their continued walk in Christ is vital.

 

[Roger316]

Re: Rom8

• A little research on the internet says 90-95% of Christiandom does not see OSAS in the chain in Rom8:28-30

Consensus is not an arbiter of truth.

• In Rom8:17 Paul addresses glorification for Christians in a conditional statement pertaining to joint-suffering with Jesus Christ.

Paul is talking about the testimony of the Holy Spirit. In that context, the conditional is rhetorical and expects a positive answer. To paraphrase, Paul means to say, "If the Holy Spirit says that we are children, (and we all know that children are heirs) then we are heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ."

• In much of Rom8 Paul is addressing several things the Christian is to be doing in his walk.

Not exactly. He is not addressing things to do as you suggest. He contrasts two mindsets: those who walk according to the Spirit and those who walk according to the flesh. He does not bring up the idea that some of those who formerly walked according to the Spirit might walk according to the flesh.

• Taking all of this into account it's simple to see why seeing OSAS in Rom8:28-30 is a very minority view.

Consensus is not the arbiter of truth.

• The chain is there to both comfort believers and to let them know their continued walk in Christ is vital.

It is cold comfort for people who can't rest on something solid.

 

[JayWalker]

It seems to me that you believe that you have totally overcome sin in your life. Then you should never have to examine yourself again. But be careful, jaywalker's sometimes get blind-sided!

No, I'm paying attention to the instructions the Lord has put in His Word telling us to SIN NOT

He gave us His Spirit and His Word to empower us to SIN NOT, so you can live in sin if you'd like. I will not.

Here's some Truth from God's Word to chew on:

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOES righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Galatians 5:16
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

2 Peter 2:14,15
Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

Romans 6:1,2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Romans 8:13,14
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

2 Timothy 2:21
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

 

[FlyingDove]

We all know this is about permanence, OSAS, Eternal Security, correct?

It's no mystery when Justification, Sealing, etc. are put forth as argument for OSAS.

Did you see my questions about withdrawal and abandonment in regard to this being irreversible?

Certainly those who love God (present active participle - not aorist - not one time in the past) can rely upon the chain of what God says He has established in His Prothesis and prepared for those who love Him (present active participle - not aorist - not one time in the past) (as Paul also says).

Certainly you can see what's actually being discussed here, correct?

Why is that highlighted phrase above being skipped over and Rom8:30 being presented in isolation from it?

The present participle ""those who love God"" in Rom 8:28 does not function as a condition that breaks or qualifies the golden chain in 8:29-30. Paul is not describing a fluctuating class of people whose status rises & falls with their emotional or behavioral performance. He is describing the same fixed group throughout: those whom God foreknew, predestined, called, justified & > GLORIFIED.

The participle in Vs.28 is descriptive, not conditional - it identifies the people God is already acting upon, not a requirement they must continually meet to stay in the chain. Paul immediately defines who ""those who love God"" are: they are the ones He foreknew, predestined, called, justified & > GLORIFIED. The chain is unbroken because the subject is unchanging. The participle does not override the aorist indicatives, the aorist indicatives define the participle.

 

[Roger316]

The present participle ""those who love God"" in Rom 8:28 does not function as a condition that breaks or qualifies the golden chain in 8:29-30. Paul is not describing a fluctuating class of people whose status rises & falls with their emotional or behavioral performance. He is describing the same fixed group throughout: those whom God foreknew, predestined, called, justified & > GLORIFIED.

The participle in Vs.28 is descriptive, not conditional - it identifies the people God is already acting upon, not a requirement they must continually meet to stay in the chain. Paul immediately defines who ""those who love God"" are: they are the ones He foreknew, predestined, called, justified & > GLORIFIED. The chain is unbroken because the subject is unchanging. The participle does not override the aorist indicatives, the aorist indicatives define the participle.

You make an excellent point. He is describing the same fixed group throughout.

 

[studier]

Consensus is not an arbiter of truth.

Agreed, but works both ways

Paul is talking about the testimony of the Holy Spirit. In that context, the conditional is rhetorical and expects a positive answer. To paraphrase, Paul means to say, "If the Holy Spirit says that we are children, (and we all know that children are heirs) then we are heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ."

Looks to me like you're attempting to negate the second and emphasized condition that ties glorification to suffering together with Christ, which would go well with negating the inferred condition in the chain being "for those who love God".

Not exactly. He is not addressing things to do as you suggest. He contrasts two mindsets: those who walk according to the Spirit and those who walk according to the flesh. He does not bring up the idea that some of those who formerly walked according to the Spirit might walk according to the flesh.

Putting to death the actions of the body and being told if they're living according to flesh they're about to die, etc., sounds like more than mindset, no?

It is cold comfort for people who can't rest on something solid.

It's very solid comfort to be informed what's available to those who love God and live and endure as He says and has provided for.

 

[studier]

The present participle ""those who love God"" in Rom 8:28 does not function as a condition that breaks or qualifies the golden chain in 8:29-30. Paul is not describing a fluctuating class of people whose status rises & falls with their emotional or behavioral performance. He is describing the same fixed group throughout: those whom God foreknew, predestined, called, justified & > GLORIFIED.

The participle in Vs.28 is descriptive, not conditional - it identifies the people God is already acting upon, not a requirement they must continually meet to stay in the chain. Paul immediately defines who ""those who love God"" are: they are the ones He foreknew, predestined, called, justified & > GLORIFIED. The chain is unbroken because the subject is unchanging. The participle does not override the aorist indicatives, the aorist indicatives define the participle.

The present participle “those who love God” does describe the group with that characteristic - as long as they have this characteristic the chain applies.

The chain does not guarantee their love will endure. The near context makes clear the requirements for enduring: walking by the Spirit, putting sin to death by the Spirit (v.13), suffering with Christ (v.17), etc..

These things provide some near-context definition for what it means to be “those who love God.”

 

[FlyingDove]

The present participle “those who love God” does describe the group with that characteristic - as long as they have this characteristic the chain applies.

The chain does not guarantee their love will endure. The near context makes clear the requirements for enduring: walking by the Spirit, putting sin to death by the Spirit (v.13), suffering with Christ (v.17), etc..

These things provide some near-context definition for what it means to be “those who love God.”

Let me try this way. Rom 8:1 ends your entire works/obedience importation before you ever reach verse 13, 17, or 30.

Paul says: There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. IN-CHRIST is ""positional status,"" not ""performance"". It's grounded in union with Christ, not in continued obedience. If condemnation is already removed because you are in union with Christ, then obedience cannot be the condition for keeping condemnation away.

Rom 8:1-4 is the frame for the whole chapter: God acted (8:3) God fulfilled the requirement (8:4) Therefore we walk by/in the Spirit (8:4)

Paul's logic is one directional: No condemnation > therefore the believer walks by the Spirit. (Identity produces conduct.)

Your logic reverses Paul: Walk by the Spirit > therefore no condemnation. (Conduct produces identity.)

That's not exegesis. That's reversing Paul. Romans 8 starts by shutting the door on the very system you're trying to import.

Rom 8:9 reinforces the same identity 1st logic

Paul says: You are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, since indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Paul is making 3 identity statements, not issuing conditions or warnings.

(1) you are not in the flesh... Paul is not describing behavior. He is talking about which realm you belong to. ""In the flesh"" is Paul’s label for the Adam‑realm of death & condemnation. Paul says believers are not in that realm anymore.

(2) but in the Spirit... Again - realm, not performance. ""In the Spirit"" means you belong to the new realm of Christ, life & righteousness. Paul is NOT saying: Act spiritual so you can stay in the Spirit. He IS saying: You've been transferred into the Spirit realm because of WHO dwells in-you.

(3) since indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. This is the foundation. Paul grounds your realm & identity in indwelling, not obedience. The Spirit dwells, not visits. The Spirit's presence is the cause, not the result, of your walk. Indwelling determines identity. Identity determines realm. Realm determines walk.

Paul is not saying: If you walk well enough, the Spirit will dwell in you. He is saying: Because the Spirit dwells in you, you belong to the Spirit‑realm. This is identity logic, not performance logic.

Rom 8:1 & 8:9 form one unified argument

Rom 8:1 No condemnation for those in Christ. Romans 8:9 explains why: You are in Christ because the Spirit ""dwells in-you"". You are in the Spirit, not in the flesh. Therefore you are under no condemnation, not under threat.

Rom 8:1–9 is one continuous chain of logic: No condemnation > because you are in Christ > because the Spirit dwells in you > therefore you walk according to the Spirit.

Studier your promoted doctrine reverses every step of Paul's logic.

Paul’s order is: Spirit indwelling > identity > realm > walk

Your order reverses Paul: Walk > realm > identity > Spirit indwelling.

Romans 8:9 leaves no room for your system. If the Spirit dwells in you, you are Christ's. If He does not, you never were.

 

[Roger316]

Agreed, but works both ways

Looks to me like you're attempting to negate the second and emphasized condition that ties glorification to suffering together with Christ, which would go well with negating the inferred condition in the chain being "for those who love God".

Putting to death the actions of the body and being told if they're living according to flesh they're about to die, etc., sounds like more than mindset, no?

It's very solid comfort to be informed what's available to those who love God and live and endure as He says and has provided for.

No, I don't negate the suffering.

In Romans 8, Paul is describing those who are in Christ and what he calls "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ." In his view, those in Christ have a unique inwardness that shapes their lives. He compares this to others who are seeking justification through the Law of Moses. He compares two mindsets: the mind set on the Spirit, and the mind set on the flesh.

I would argue that, in this context, the terms "spirit" and "flesh" are not intended to convey a general comparison between our spirit and the flesh that hangs from our bones. The comparison is between self-sacrifice and performance-based religion. The central idea is this. Those in Christ have the Spirit of Christ who prayed, "Abba Father." This is shorthand for the completed thought, "“Abba! Father! All things are possible for You; remove this cup from Me; yet not what I will, but what You will.” Mark 14:36

Those who are in Christ, will walk according to the same mindset of Christ, who was willing to submit to the Will of God even if it meant suffering and dying on the cross. "Not what I will, but what you will." This attitude is unique to those who are "in Christ" by Paul's definition. Just as Jesus gave deference to the Father's will, those "in Christ" give deference to the Father's will. Just as Jesus freely aligned his will with the Father's will, those "in Christ" freely align their will with the Father's will.

In Romans 8, Paul is not describing the painful fallout of our mistakes or the consequences of moral failure. The sufferings he has in view are the sufferings that come with Christ—the cost of living a life shaped by integrity, honor, sacrificial love, and fidelity to the Father. Just as Jesus offered deference in Gethsemane, saying “not my will but yours be done,” so those who belong to Him inevitably encounter the resistance of a world that does not welcome the life of the Spirit. Their suffering is not accidental or punitive but participatory: it is the mark of sharing the Son’s own posture toward the Father and the inevitable cost of embodying His life in the present age.

This speaks directly to the inevitability of salvation by showing that the sufferings of those in Christ are purposeful, not pointless. If a person "in Christ" could ultimately fall away, then the very sufferings Paul describes—sufferings endured precisely because they walk in the way of Christ—would be emptied of meaning. Their pain would have no telos, no arc, no promised horizon. But Paul insists the opposite: our sufferings are *with Christ* and therefore lead to the same outcome Christ Himself reached—glory.

 

[BillyBob]

No, I'm paying attention to the instructions the Lord has put in His Word telling us to SIN NOT

He gave us His Spirit and His Word to empower us to SIN NOT, so you can live in sin if you'd like. I will not.

Here's some Truth from God's Word to chew on:

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOES righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Galatians 5:16
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

2 Peter 2:14,15
Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

Romans 6:1,2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Romans 8:13,14
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

2 Timothy 2:21
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

@JayWalker, @studier, @vassal, @Qt

The sad fact is that when anyone admits that sin remains in them, you immediately go into your [shame on you, you live in sin mode]. That is definitely a red flag as to your understanding of God's word, and does not speak well of your honesty in proclaiming the perfection that you have obtained in the here and now.

 

[JayWalker]

The sad fact is that when anyone admits that sin remains in them, you immediately go into your [shame on you, you live in sin mode]. That is definitely a red flag as to your understanding of God's word, and does not speak well of your honesty in proclaiming the perfection that you have obtained in the here and now.

In other words you admit to ignoring these scriptures below and consider them to be
lies are are offended that anyone would have the gall to post these Truths from God's?

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOES righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Galatians 5:16
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

2 Peter 2:14,15
Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

Romans 6:1,2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Romans 8:13,14
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

2 Timothy 2:21
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

 

[JayWalker]

proclaiming the perfection that you have obtained in the here and now.

So WHAT are you going to do with these passages?

Hebrews 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying
again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God

*We should grow beyond the foundational teachings of the Gospel and grow in to a mature
Christian who does not walk after dead works and instead walks after the New Man which is
created in righteousness and true holiness (see Ephesians 4:22-24, Romans 13:14, Colossians 3:10)

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

2 Corinthians 11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Hebrews 12:23
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect

2 Corinthians 13:11
Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Ephesians 4:13
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Philippians 3:15
Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Colossians 1:28
Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man
perfect in Christ Jesus:

1 Thessalonians 3:10
Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?

2 Timothy 3:17
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Hebrews 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of
repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God

Hebrews 7:19
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Hebrews 9:9
Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

Hebrews 10:1
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Hebrews 11:40
God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Hebrews 13:21
Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

James 1:4
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

James 2:22
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

James 3:2
For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

1 John 4:17
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Those who cannot cease from living in sin are "cursed children" (2 Peter 2:14)

2 Peter 2:14
Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

 

[Qt]

2 Peter 2:14
Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

The Incontinent, they say they can’t help it, from such turn away. Because they have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof Jesus Christ!

2 Timothy 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

[Qt]

The sad fact

Is that you posted this tripe and the way you did it amounts to nothing more than trolling. And what is even sadder you got positive affirmations from 2 others for what amounts to nothing more than an emotional sound bite.

 

[BillyBob]

In other words you admit to ignoring these scriptures below and consider them to be
lies are are offended that anyone would have the gall to post these Truths from God's?

No, I only see you using them to poke everyone else in the eye, while maintaining your status as a liar before the very god that you confess to perfectly obey.

 

[JayWalker]

No, I only see you using them to poke everyone else in the eye, while maintaining your status as a liar before the very god that you confess to perfectly obey.

As you refuse to even acknowledge them, can we assume you believe you cannot cease from living in sin, continually turning away from the Lord to do things you know are sinful behavior?

People that claim they could never stop sinning are the ones that can bust out in to sinful behavior at any moment!

I don't even invite people like that over to my house. They might rob me, or steal from me or murder me at any moment because after all they claim they don't have the self control that comes from having the Holy Spirit so they might just bust out in to sinful behavior at anytime.

It's kind like turrets syndrome with these people but rather then bursting out in foul language they bust out in to sinful behavior!

 

[Qt]

No, I only see you using them to poke everyone else in the eye, while maintaining your status as a liar before the very god that you confess to perfectly obey.

No that isn’t true amd you know it. Your response is nothing more than an emotional outburst

The Incontinent, they say they can’t help it, from such turn away. Because they have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof Jesus Christ!

2 Timothy 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

what is not of faith is of sin and if this where you are at you will be tossed like a wave to and fro.

Let not that doubled minded man think they shall receive anything from the Lord!

 

[BillyBob]

As you refuse to even acknowledge them, can we assume you believe you cannot cease from living in sin, continually turning away from the Lord to do things you know are sinful behavior?

Get behind me Satan!

 

[JayWalker]

Get behind me satan!

Those rejecting God's Word have the devil on the inside.

You should cast him out and start believing God's Word!

what is not of faith is of sin and if this where you are at you will be tossed like a wave to and fro.

Let not that doubled minded man think they shall receive anything from the Lord!

Exactly!

 

[Qt]

Let me try this way. Rom 8:1 ends your entire works/obedience importation before you ever reach verse 13, 17, or 30.

Paul says: There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. IN-CHRIST is ""positional status,"" not ""performance"". It's grounded in union with Christ, not in continued obedience. If condemnation is already removed because you are in union with Christ, then obedience cannot be the condition for keeping condemnation away.

The condemnation is death. He follows the statement that there is no condemnation for us who are Christ Jesus with the exclamation as to how.

He says as you know, for the Law of the Spirit of the Life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the Law of the Sin and death.

It is the Law of sin and death that we been set free from. Two things, the Law of Sin. And death.

Death is the condemnation to which verse 1 speaks.

We Being set free from the Law of sin because sin has been condemned in the flesh is how we are delivered from this body of death the Paul speaks of in the previous chapter. There he also explains what the Law of sin is.

Sin has not been condemned in the flesh so we can now do the things that we would. The Law of God that Paul said he delighted in.
As He says in he says in chapter 8, that the righteousness of the Law be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit of the Life in of the life in Christ Jesus and not after the flesh. FOR IF WE WALK After the FLESH WE SHALL DIE. But IF we Through The Spirit do mortify the deeds of the Body we shall live.

Our lives our subject to this to this condition. We either walk after the Spirit of the Life in Christ Jesus mortifying the deeds of the Body and live. Or we walk after the flesh and die as verse 13 states

No amount of twisting and squirming changes this indicative statement. It is also a sign of who we are as verse 14 shares. We are either Children of God living of the Spirit of the Life in Christ Jesus or still children flesh being tossed like a wave in the sea.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Rom 8:1-4 is the frame for the whole chapter: God acted (8:3) God fulfilled the requirement (8:4) Therefore we walk by/in the Spirit (8:4)

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
It is Conditional.

God condemned sin in the flesh, it does not have power over us anymore so that the righteousnerss of the Law be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit and Not after the flesh. For if you walk after the flesh ye shall die. But if we through the Spirit of the Life in Christ Jesus mortify the deed of the Body we shall live.

Incidentally, HOW MANY STEPS CONSTITUTE A WALK?